Two issues

[Toruk Makto1]

After going through a few matches tonight in HC Rush, I started thinking about a couple of issues that many of us have experienced and, perhaps, would like to see adjusted or compensated for.

First, most of us know about the allowance of spawn camping in Rush mode, and this is something that I think needs to be defined in further detail. While I understand the need for brevity in our rules to make them simple to communicate and understand, I believe at least a couple of details should be hammered out. The first is the utilization of the VADS on Atacama to either destroy the helicopter before it can take off fully or simply mowing down the attackers as they spawn (at the first base). I experienced this first-hand tonight, as our team was getting splattered by the VADS immediately upon spawning. The helicopter couldn't take off, the vehicles were getting destroyed, and anybody that managed to avoid the VADS got picked off by snipers on the walk through the desert. I realize it's tough to make a verdict here, as many will probably say "well SOMEBODY will get through", but with no vehicles and snipers watching every inch of desert, the trek is nearly impossible (when I finally broke free of the VADS, I couldn't get farther than halfway across due to snipers, even weaving and taking whatever cover I could). Now, I realize the solution is not to "ban" the VADS, but what could be done to alleviate this problem? And perhaps we ultimately don't change anything, but I think that at least discussing it will make the BC2 division and servers more enjoyable in the end.

The second issue is parachute sniping. I've participated in this myself, but I've started questioning its legitimacy. Even when the attackers strafe back and forth, it's still pretty simple to knock them down for a competent sniper. Now this isn't game-breaking, as somebody always gets through, but it's effects are two-fold: first, some of the attackers get no opportunity to take cover (much like the problem with the VADS), and getting repeatedly sniped on the way down leads to rage and people leaving the server. I understand that the defenders are trying to defend at all costs, but perhaps we could add a "no parachute sniping rule"? And if not a rule, what else could be done?


The other major issue that I've begun noticing lately (besides the spawn camping issues) is team stacking. Since we usually can't forcefully move people around, we need to be willing to move to the other team to help things out. Unfortunately, the temptation is great to switch to the winning team as quickly as possible. Of course, this just leads to even more of the same problem. Now I'm not suggesting that eGO members should never be on the same team/squad, but rather we should move around based on the need (if that means an entire eGO squad moves to the losing team, so be it). As a side note, I don't think having multiple eGO members on the same team is the issue itself, but rather staying on the same team and steamrolling the other team repeatedly. This was the situation tonight, as multiple eGO members stacked up on the team that was destroying the other, clearly weaker team. Me, Slaz, and Devil Doc Moose were all trying to turn the loosing team around, but it was impossible. Granted, these things will eventually even out, but by that time how many pubs did we alienate? What if this was their first time in the server, leaving them with nothing but rage? Yes, it sucks to be on the loosing team, but I believe this relates to Altec's earlier post about the spirit of eGO; if this means that we all have to get on the loosing team together, even if our kdr will be hurt for a few matches or we don't rank as quickly, then we should be willing to do so.

It's understood that this is a game, and it's just for fun, and nobody has fun loosing. But by being a part of this gaming community we all took it upon ourselves to do what's necessary for the benefit of the community.

So let's hear some thoughts. What can we do to correct the issues or make our servers an even better place to game?

 

[DrBackJack]

This is my usual tactic.


Issue 1- Mortar strike

Issue 2- Squad up and spawn on each other on the ground

Issue 3- Good people eventually gather on the same team just to steam roll the other. The other team rage quits and people from the good team get auto balanced. The teams eventually become equalized just for the cycle to begin again. Although I have seen servers with a auto scramble after each round or two. This mainly works best with conquest because its possible on rush with auto balance to play deference or offense twice in a row.

 

[St0n3d Llama]

^ +1 for all of that. UAV needs to take out vads, or snipers can mortar it. That is just trash map design that we all must suffer through. Kind of like putting the UAV station in the line of sight for enemy snipers, just poorly planned.

As for the chutes, one typed message to have someone on the ground stay safe or a little squad hopping will fix that, and I am a "competent" sniper, and have popped my share of chutes, but the strafing makes it at least 5 times harder, so I recommend that. If we wanted to stop the chute popping, I believe we have the capability to have spawn protection, but keep in mind, I have been rocketed, 40mm tubed, and mortared by people in their parachutes, so don't tell me they are helpless, some people just don't know what they can do about it.

Stacking is an issue, and it can diminish our servers populations very quickly. It happens to everyone, and it is not fun when you are on the receiving end. The best solution I have seen for this is for half of the losing team leave and come back at the end of a game. This makes a few squads switch over at the start of the next game, and balances somewhat. If it is still uneven, resort to Gustavs!!!

 

[forty2skates]

My .02:

1. Non-issue from my point of view. There's a lot of ways to take out VADS, the gunner is really nothing more than a sitting duck and I've never seen anyone last very long on it, not just because me and my UAV either. Mortar is always a quick and easy way to get the gunner down.

2. Kind of a punk move to snipe chutes, but I don't mind it either. The attacking team should at some point learn to weave. I haven't been popped out of a chute in I don't know how long. If I can avoid it I don't see why everyone else can't figure it out. Wouldn't break my heart to see it outlawed, but can't say I care either way honestly.

3. This is a bit of a tough one. When there's a queue it's not a big deal and the teams seem to even up quickly enough. However, I play late at night a lot and have seen the servers die due to one team dominating the other. At those times there doesn't seem to be enough of us around to help it. Personally, when a game gets really lopsided, regardless of what side I'm on, I slow down my own game play and fight for my own K/D rather than team objectives. I know that sounds awfully selfish, but I'm one of sixteen and not going to make much of a difference in the rolling or getting rolled and I'll gladly jump back into the fray when things start to even out.

 

[Altec]

I understand your position Toruk, but I just see more game play rules being detrimental to the server in the long run and in the short term.

The simple fact is that most people hate being told what they're allowed to say, how they're allowed to play, and just in general hate rules. It's in the basic fabric of society to go against the rules, and that does not change in the servers. I can only imagine the number of players being kicked and banned double because of spawn camping rules in Rush, VADS restrictions, and parachute sniping.

With that said, let's look at the actually issue instead of the practicality of enforcing the restrictions. Is spawn camping and parachute popping that big of an issue in Rush? Sadly, I'd have to say no. Like Llama said all it takes is one squad mate to avoid having to parachute and I do not see it being that obstructive. I've seen maybe 5 people throughout my Rush playing days actually complain of parachute snipers.

And spawn camping? Well, this is more tricky. If teams are balanced, then spawn camping is not really a problem. I do think that a bit more effort in terms of eGO members could aid in team stacking, but then again we too as members want to enjoy a nice winning streak every one and awhile.

In the end it all comes down to weighing the pros and cons. Should we really mess with the formula that has propelled HC Rush into the Top 10 Battlefield servers? In my opinion, no.

 

[LuxMortim]

1- VADS isn't a large an issue. Mortar strike = win.

2- Chute sniping. I am all for a rule against this.

3- Is an issue, and will continue to be one.

 

[Slazenger]

My biggest concern is the team stacking issue. I was on HC Rush with Toruk earlier this evening. He and I were the only eGO members who were willing to swap and play on the "losing" team. One team was being dominated for a well over half an hour (pushing 45 minutes - through multiple map and side changes), I know I was mentioning it on vent, telling our members when a spot on the losing team opened up. Names aren't important, but I find it a little disturbing that our division members would just laugh at the team stack and act like it's nothing. It didn't right itself and just got to the point where we couldn't take it anymore. #1 person on the losing team had 1/6 the score of the #1 on the winning team and everyone on the losing team had a seriously negative KDR.

It ruined the fun for everyone on our team and no one was willing to do their part to try to resolve it. We spend so much time trying to populate our servers but I think we sometimes forget how easy it is to empty a server. The same thing happened this afternoon around 1-2pm Eastern. The server was full and one team was dominating the other for an hour. Next thing you know the server has half a dozen people on it and we had to work like crazy to get it populated again.

We all need to sometimes "take one for the team" even when it might mean messing up our KDR a bit. Last time I checked, most of us play the game for fun. It'd just be nice if we could all be willing to be the bigger man and step up to help out whenever it's needed.

 

[soldier_0083]

I have to second what Slaz said. I wasn't in said game, but i have been on the losing end of similar events in the past. Not to say you should switch to the losing team EVERY time. But when one team has dominated round after round its best to try and even it out. I have also witnessed members cracking jokes about the pubs they are destroying. If our end goal is to populate our servers, that is not the way. Who would return to a server that, in the pubs eyes, stacks the team by having clan members all on one side?

 

[Music]

To be honest, the VADS isn't really that much of an issue. All it takes is a little teamwork and coordination to blow it up. If no one tries to work together in-game, then there's a good chance that team will lose. Also, there's only two or three maps that has the VADS.

Like you mention in your post, they can strafe left and right. Otherwise, they'll be sitting ducks. They can also get pass this by spawning on a squad mate that's already landed. Also, there's not that many maps that have parachuting so there's really no need for a parachuting rule.

Now stacking can be easily resolved. We always encourage our members, from any division, to try to keep the teams as balanced as possible by switching to the other team themselves. Do we have to? No, not really, but we do it anyways to show pubs and other clans that we actually care about the game and that we try to make it as fun as possible so that they would come back and play again. The auto-balance is there to balance the players on each sides, but members could use that as an initiative and go to the other side to try and retain as much pubs as possible. Granted, there's a limited amount that you can switch teams and players come and go at a drop of a hat, but maybe switch just once is enough.

We keep the rules as basic and fundamental as possible because, like Altec said, people don't like a wall of rules. I am locking this because we don't need to make rules on simple or limited issues that can be resolved with teamwork, ingenuity and the ambition to help us grow, not only as a division, but as a whole as well. Remember, if you ever have any questions or concerns, you can always pm me or post in the drop-box.

~Music, signing-off