the new black mesa....

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I was a normal on V2 of black mesa and loved it dearly, although I knew it was time for a change (i felt there was a lack of room to grow, and since i play soldier the most there's only 2 things for you to do 1. practice rocket jumping L/C without hitting the fan. and 2. spam) and while the new version implements new ways to be better, it definitely needs some tweaking, and with our support i'm sure Dragonhill would love to make himself more famous then he already is. :)

The new A has the potential to be awesome. It made A easier to get to and gave other classes a chance to dominate the area (other then scouts and snipers). Although the conveyor belt is very impressive it did take away the strategic walkway that enabled you to jump down and ambush enemies from above. Some of the other tweaks have been mentioned but apart from that it is an amazing looking map, but I think this is what you get when an amazing mapper gets carried away with his own awesomeness :-P. It's a little to intricate and too involved for a normal game.

It was suggested to put it on a rotation between V2 and V7 and I personally would discourage this considering how many people like V2 and dislike V7. None of the old regulars will stick around when it switches to V7 and learn it. So you'd get a full server for part of the time and an empty/half empty server because no one would be willing to try the new one with a chance of playing the old one.
 
holy poop godly said:
i say put V7 and V3 on rotation :)
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I think that would settle quite a few disputes, at least until Dragonhill releases a new version.

As for my thoughts, Black Mesa is different.
I've noticed the vents are MUCH less used, and therefore a point of frustration for many Heavies and Demomen. But, I've spent 4-5 hours on the map since it came out yesterday, and I'm actually really enjoying the rest of the map. I think some vents should be taken out (maybe even the third tier above B and K), but the areas around L, A, and C seem better than before to me. Tonight was actually the first time I've spent over an hour and a half on the map. Oh yeah, the switch on the doors was a nice idea, but it doesn't work so well in execution, mainly because 90% of the time the doors are left open, and it's an easy walk to the enemy spawn.

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PoooPants said:
It was suggested to put it on a rotation between V2 and V7 and I personally would discourage this considering how many people like V2 and dislike V7. None of the old regulars will stick around when it switches to V7 and learn it. So you'd get a full server for part of the time and an empty/half empty server because no one would be willing to try the new one with a chance of playing the old one.
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Never mind my agreeing with a rotation, this is a valid point. Regs who dislike V7 need to get used to it... =/
 
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Dragonhill is my hero.. He actually read all these posts and formed a list of possible changes. This is the only community i've ever been in where people actually listen to these random forum posts.

/salute
 
I gotta say that I really like the new point A. And the start of the round where everyone comes out of the glass cases? AWESOME.

EDIT: Just as a side note all my gripes with the new version have been said numerous times by other people.
 
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Well, I guess I have some to say too...

I agree that BM takes a while to get used to. You need to play regularly, get a feel for the vent structure, know where the best place to go is for a certain situation... but for me, I'm just not getting that feeling that I got when I first played v2t3.

Sure, the added vent structure will make capping points more difficult. Sure, the three levels on B/K add a lot more to defense and strategy. But I think that all of this has fundamentally changed what BM was in the first place. A map where battles go back and forth through all points for hours, without any specific class having gains over others. In the new BM, it is possible to take certain classes, such as engineer, and completely dominate with them.

Specifics? for instance. Engies can build on the top level of B/K. And on the conveyors to A. And a lot of other places.

The added complexity to the map does take a while to get used to, but I've started to get used to it already...problem is, the sheer size of the map limits action. Meaning of the 32 people playing on the server when I was playing, I saw maybe 10. and 7 of those guys were on my team.

OK my last gripe here is the new point A. It seems a lot more...shallow than it used to be. The point A in v2t3 was amazing for mostly one reason: its height. I mean, there was nothing more fun then pushing someone off and watching them spiral down 200 feet into a pool of acid, and nothing more exhilarating than having to jump off when you suddenly see a pyro approaching. The height of A added a whole new element to the game, one of fear of environmental death. The new A just doesn't cut it for me, sorry.

OK griping over. I must thank you again and again Dragonhill for giving us this series of maps. No matter how much I gripe, I know that I will never be able to leave BM behind. The new BM has a lot going against it, but also a lot in its favor. Thanks again, and keep it up!:)
 
Hmm my thoughts on this are the new path spawn outs are great, call it what you want but spawn camping is always lame with such a small hallway to run out of. Having multiple paths to counter is great for flanking and adds depth instead of just zerging in one direction.

The vents do need some work, they're confusing and i get lost a lot. =p

I <3 the fishy.

B and K do need some work as well to prevent one engineer from making the portal useless. The multi levels do make use for helping remedy that some but not many use that advantage. so i want to blame that on people not fully looking at things.

Like the game i was in last, there were multiple sentries on the middle floor but bouncing grenades into the holes can take out the sentries or atleast the engy. Stickies can also be tossed near one with some careful maneuvering.
 
The new vents really aren't bad. I think it's just that the two seperate systems are now connected that's throwing everyone off. But I like I can make a b-line for my teams "attic" above b/k and defend aginst would be attackers.


Also, look into a glitch with spawn doors; enemy can keep the doors from opening by pressing aginst them in pairs.
 
Hi (to Dragonhill)

I'm gonna focus on the positive things here. Everyone has said basically all the issues already. I like the new map - specially the spawn. It was awesome spawning during setup in that cryo chamber.

But, I have a suggestion. I tried building a teleport to above the enemy's last point. (I think thats what you originally intended.) The entrance lasted for no more than 3-4 minutes every time..no matter which spawn exit I built it at.

I may sound biased (lol @ my name) but it would be a godsend for every blackmesa engie to have a safer place for teleporters - since the map has enemies in every direction.
 
Dragonhill said:
hola all

i'm keeping track of the comments...so far i see the cut list as follows

1) stop portal screwing with view
2) remove interconnection vents, purhapes widen a few to create visual and navigational variety
3) remove eye scanner switch for steel doors
4) adjust b/k to allow portal users a means to not get nailed by a guantlet of sentries
5) clean up the conveyor
6) keep fishy
7) more visual direction

I'll be looking at doing this for the weekend. seams pretty straight forward

~D
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I think that your list pretty well covers it. The vents were one of my main concerns when i played. Keep up the good work! This is definitely one of my favorite maps, and certainly the most fun and challenging to play.
 
I played it the new black mesa map some and from what I see it's awsome
I love the changes, keeps everyone on their toes as new strategies are planned
Keep up the great work Dragonhill and as always thanks for your time and effort.
It is greatly appreciatied in this community
 
To be perfectly honest I read most of the first two pages and it seems both sides are posting the same stuff over and over. I for one was never in BM (Very rearely when Medic Hunter wanted a medic or some help I would join) but now it seems I love it, I find the vents less confusing than what they were (The lighting makes it easier to remember) The spawn is a wrok of art I love it. And you guys complaining about the portal? I got at least 5 kills as a medic using my needlegun after being portaled. I guess all you old regulares were just "used" to the old mesa. Me? I hardly ever played and I can navigate easily, I think hte main problem is adjusting your gameplay to suit the new map. This is all imo.

~M
 
This thread had a pretty bad start. Dragon, please use one of the other threads, I'd rather this didn't get bumped up again.
 
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