This is ridiculous

Xerticle

Poster


This is just ridiculous. Before a sentry on the battlements was a nuisance that was deadly but definitely possible to be overtaken. Sentries with unlimited range however? That's just complete hogwash. I am not one to complain usually, but dealing with this just gives one team way too much power over the other. I suggest a 2-3 engineer limit on 2fort at least, if not the other servers. I know limiting classes is a big deal but I see no other way of dealing with such imbalance. Such things as massively coordinated teamwork and lucky breaks are too rare to be considered a fair way of dealing with four sentries on the battlements. I'm considering not playing on servers where people abuse this.
 

Dreadmaker

I need to go outside
Better yet, play sniper. peek out, engie's dead, turret is neutralized for the time being, during which time your demos or soldiers can deal with them.

I'm a mesa vet, of course, and I actually love it when engies use the wrangler; it makes them MUCH easier to deal with. Kill the engie and you have 3 seconds of free time to beat on the sentry, and by the time it comes back to life, it's damaged enough that it won't last for more than a second. there were a number of occasions last night, were I was playing heavy, and during ubers, I didn't focus on the gun, but rather the engineer, and life was much, much easier.

Much less than overpowered, I think the wrangler has a tendency to make you weaker than if the turret was on its own.

In this case, I don't think any of the new weapons warrant complaining; they warrant adapting.
 

Naku_vamp

Website Zealot
two sentries? big deal im also a mesa vet and we are vets of dealign with engies, they just made teh sngie stronger but i still have no problems taking them and there nests out, the wrangler makes them stronger but vuneralable because now there is human error involed as well as the engie cannot defend him self outside of teh sentry if he switched his senrty is then vulnerable i say deal with it because its balanced to me
 

Xerticle

Poster
I'm getting tired watching the game turn into something less skill based. I usually play the team player and go for the things which keep people from attacking the base, however I'm not going to sacrifice my k/d much longer. This is the only update I have a problem with. Whoever was not an engy was patrolling the middle making it impossible to assault the sentries from the water or anywhere else. The only reason the battlements was taken down was because the engies either got bored and left or left the game.
 

Darth

Website Legend
=(eGO)=
At first i thought you were talking about the headshot... i thought you headshotted somebody else with your spamgun.
 

DRaGZ

Forum Addict
The major problem is that if you have four-five engies doing this (which even before the update was not an uncommon number of engies for 2Fort), then they can literally lock down the entire front.

A few spies won't be that big a deal, since they can just Wrangle at the spies and kill them. The Spy may get one or two engies, but the others will be aware enough to lock them down, and the instant respawn makes it so setting the sentries back up again only take a matter of seconds while they are covered very well by three/four other sentries.

I have seen so many 2Fort games now where the entire front is just locked down by another team and the other team just can't get out. It stops being about trying to cap the flag and more about just making sure the entire team can't move out at all.
 

StormRage

Poster
I was playing in 2Fort last night, and it seem's that it has turned into team deathmatch with all the sentries. You go spy, sap one but there's still 6 more left ;)
 

mrcool

Website Addict
I'm getting tired watching the game turn into something less skill based. I usually play the team player and go for the things which keep people from attacking the base, however I'm not going to sacrifice my k/d much longer. This is the only update I have a problem with. Whoever was not an engy was patrolling the middle making it impossible to assault the sentries from the water or anywhere else. The only reason the battlements was taken down was because the engies either got bored and left or left the game.
Oh. So you're worried about stats.

Now it all makes sense.
 
Looks like I'm going to have to be in the minority again and say that I agree with everything you're saying. Anyone who says anything like, "Oh you just have to snipe/backstab/kill the engie and you're good, totally easy stuff" has obviously never played in a game where this was actually going on with 4-5 sentries.
 

IrateDonnie

Forum Addict
Those sentries are easy, just switch to Medic and find a Demoman with the sticky launcher. Or switch to Demo and spam the battlements with pipe bombs from in the water.
 

s3rv0

Famous Poster
All it would take for someone to take out that engi is one well placed sniper bullet or backstab, or an uber charge up there. Yeah, it's tough to get into their base with an uber, but going through the sewers it wouldn't be impossible...and remember, you wouldn't NEED the uber up there, you'd just need it to get you there. Wrangled sentries won't auto-fire on you, so you could easily take those engis by surprise. People who are QQ'ing about it are honestly just not willing to switch classes and try to take it out.

Looks like I'm going to have to be in the minority again and say that I agree with everything you're saying. Anyone who says anything like, "Oh you just have to snipe/backstab/kill the engie and you're good, totally easy stuff" has obviously never played in a game where this was actually going on with 4-5 sentries.
I don't know about this 4-5 nonsense, 'cause I see only two sentries in that picture, and the best part is they're both wrangled. If you were a rifle sniper, you'd just peek out around that corner, likely unseen by the engi. I don't know if you've actually used the wrangler before, but it's not easy. The shield bubble and the gun itself really get in the way of you seeing what you're shooting at, and if a sniper just barely peeks out from a corner to knick you in the helmet, you'll likely never see it coming. You can use the cover there to only expose yourself slightly before picking off one engi, then his gun, then the next engi, and then his gun. You and I both know that 4-5 sentries on 2fort might happen once in a blue moon, and that's just 'cause the team with the sentries is much much much better than the other team, in which case you're complaining about the wrong thing. In that situation, just sit back and wait. The team getting rolled will have people that give up and leave, then team balance kicks in, and within a relatively short time (if you're patient), the teams will be better. It may take you a while...for example, I was in turbine last night, and BLU had the middle area DOMINATED with sentries, at least 6 of them. RED never had a chance...why? Not because there were sentries, but because they had already fallen so far behind that they were playing defensively the whole time and never had a chance to do any damage. After we won, guess what happened? Team balance had switched so many people from BLU to RED that RED turned around and did the same exact thing to BLU, though not as dramatically thanks to teams being more evenly matched. Long story short: Are you losing because there are two little wrangled sentries on the battlements and there's simply no way anyone could possibly ever destroy such a magnificent and powerful machine of death and mayhem? Or is it because your team isn't coordinated/skilled/willing to do what is necessary to win?

Every time a class update comes out, there's always SOMEONE who will say it's imbalanced and it wrecks the game and blah blah blah, but honestly, chill the heck out. It's been out for less than a week, just give it some time for people to develop strategies, for Valve to re-balance anything that the community as a whole (not just you) has decided -- in a fair and impartial way, I might add, not like this post -- to be out of balance. Since when has Valve released something and said "There, it's done, we're never changing anything or working on this again." Remember the backburner? That thing was nerfed and buffed like 8 times before it got to what it is now.

I, personally, think the engi items are pretty balanced. This is my logic: No one cried that the engi was either under- nor overpowered before. He was a great utility to his team in almost every situation, if played well. Now we have new items. Even though they are new and fun to play, the fact is that I constantly switch back and forth between items (only exception is frontier justice perhaps...I do loves me some crits) because different situations, maps, and objectives call for different loadouts. That tells me these new items are pretty equal to the old ones, if I'm constantly switching back and forth between them. That's the idea of the updates: Add utility, expand the role of the class without stepping on the role of other classes, and obviously give the player customizability and a unique, fun experience.
 
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StormRage

Poster
"Oh you just have to snipe/backstab/kill the engie and you're good, totally easy stuff" has obviously never played in a game where this was actually going on with 4-5 sentries.
Exactly, as a spy, if you sap a sentry and back stab the engie; there's still 5 more sentry's ready to kill you. You can't win!
 

=[Ga]= AutoDMC

I need to go outside
I have seen so many 2Fort games now where the entire front is just locked down by another team and the other team just can't get out. It stops being about trying to cap the flag and more about just making sure the entire team can't move out at all.
Now? What Teufort have you been playing on? Over the last year and a half, except for very, very special circumstances, I avoid Teufort, and especially Teufort instaspawn because Teufort is nothing but deathmatch. The path to and from intel is incredibly long, with lots of opportunities to get caught and killed. Whenever I do play Teufort (either version) the games last forever, with very little cappage unless one team is just incredibly braindead.

It's why I've come to love Turbine. It's CTF, my favorite game mode, with a sane distance between Intels and wide open spaces for assaults (except for the vents, which are specialized). I consider Turbine "Teufort 2.0"... but I'm off topic.

So instead of 7 snipers standing shoulder to shoulder on the battlements you've got a few Engies. Follow Dreadmaker's advice. Or get some medics to built kritz and snipe-soldier the Engies (then Sentries) to bits. Or use the underwater path to build a base inside theirs. Engineers focused on the battlements are not protecting the interior... sounds like a good way to set up a rush.

Every. Single. Update. is full of QQ as people discover that the cheap methods they've been using to win have been supplanted by the cheap methods made possible by the new update. Team Fortress 2 is a cheap game. From ubercharges to one-sticky-spam-death, the game is DESIGNED to get you killed as quick as possible. Amazing as it may sound, there's a reason why the title has the word "Team" in it. You can't he-man your way through. You're going to actually have to coordinate your attacks because, gasp!, the defensive Engineer class is now very, very defensive!

Just think of the Wrangler as revenge for all the sentry guns we've had blow up in our face due to cheap sparkle rockets, single stickies, bonk-d Scouts, uber-rushes, spy sappers, out-of-range-snipes, circle-strafing pyros, and invulnerable heavies... I.E. all the cheap tricks everyone else could use to destroy our minute and a half of work.

With that said... how the HECK were Engineers able to build two sentries on their battlements? Was RED 16 Engineers? It takes time to build up a sentry, time which should not be possible unless you guys are playing Teufort wrong. And if they WEREN'T 16 Engineers, there's no excuse for not being able to find another route.

</rant>
 
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