Definition of " Spawn Camping "

[bobola]

Well I been spend most of my BC2 life in conquest servers and played Battlefield 2 with the no "Spawn Camping" rules.
Although this might not be as important as other rules or before where people would be lining up for the jets back in Battlefield 2 .
I think it is a good topic to be disscus for those conquest people at least.
Shoo rush people :chair: !!

I think we need more description of the spawn camping rule.
Here the quote from our server rule:

"Spawn Camping - .... On Conquest it's perfectly legal to go into any enemy base to steal and/or sabotage enemy vehicles, it is not, however, okay to stay in that base for prolonged periods with only the intent to spawn camp."

So what do you guys think that would be consider "Spawn Camping"

Some scenairo I made up or experienced before and would it consider as spawn camping?

A:
Mr.Wookie who's famous for his crazy headshot aim decides to camps at Point C which is directly infront of the enemy's main base. Picking off enemies head as they spawn. Would that be consider spawn camping? He's not in the enemy's base at all.

B:
Mr.Wookie discover a spot where he can spot the whole entire map right in the comfort of his own base! But better, he's camouflaged within the depts of the trees. From this, he created many raging players on the other team.
But Mr.M2Gustav had enough of his deaths. He ventures into enemy territory and hope to find Mr.Wookie. During his search for Mr.Wookie, Mr.M2Gustav encountered a few enemies who had spawned. But in order for Mr.M2Gustav to continue his search, he would have to dispose of the enemies. Would this be an act of Spawn camping?

C:
Mr.Wookie had surived, due to the fact that a ban hammer appeared and knocked Mr.M2Gustav into the sky. Fear he might come back, Mr.Wookie head out to find a better hiding spot. He sneaked across the map all the way into his enemy's base. And to his suprise, there was another spot where he could hide and be able observe the whole map! However, this spot was right inside the enemy's main base. Mr.Wookie knows the rules well, no spawn camping. So Mr.Wookie think to himself. " What if I'm popping heads who are not in the main base. But at capture point. That is not spawn camping? Or is it? "

 

[Vertago]

A. Yes he is spawn camping. Shooting into an NME spawn is Spawn camping.

B. This is sorta iffy sorta and sorta not. The way I see it is that once they start shooting you then they are fair game to kill even if they are in their own spawn. So if Mr.M2Gustav only shoots at people who shoot him, then I say it is not spawn camping, so once he gets shot at then he is allowed to shoot back. But If as he is walking through NME spawn and kills people instantly as they spawn then it becomes spawn camping.

C. This one is pretty clear that it is not spawn camping as I have seen plenty of eGO members do it without repercussion.

 

[Krod Mandoon]

The most commonly enforced spawn camping is when someone goes inside the other team's uncap, i.e. main base, and starts shooting anyone he sees and his only mission is killing everyone in there.

A. Shooting from C base into spawn is technically not spawn camping because if the enemy is shooting out of their uncap you are allowed to shoot back, just not rush into there and start killing everyone as soon as they spawn.

B. I would say no if I was the admin, since he is not going into their "territory" to camp their spawn but instead going with the purpose of finding Mr.Wookie if he kills someone on his epic quest to slay this wookie, that would not be camping because he is just moving through the area and they happened to spawn.

C. If this wookie was only shooting people outside the enemy uncap and not shooting at anyone spawning, I would rule it as being legal but pretty dumb.

 

[soldier_0083]

**The following are the opinions of soldier_0083 and in no way represent server rules or regulations set forth by eGO

A: Your camping a point where you can kill people, in their uncap, as they spawn. Spawn Camping!
B: Using your uncap as a safe haven to kill enemies is a deal breaker. Mr.M2Gustav should be free to go in there and hunt Mr.Wookie down and take him out by any means necessary! I don't think he should go around killing everyone he sees either. It should be evasion tactics if at all possible, but waiting for someone to shoot at you first is a suicide mission. Especially if it is a hardcore server. Sometimes you have to take the initiative!
C: Your not killing enemies as they spawn in an uncap. No spawn camping.

=================================================

But what about this scenario?

MAP: Nelson Bay
MODE: Conquest
Mr.Medic is on team 1. Mr.Assault is on team 2. Mr.Assault and Team 2 Owns A, D and C. Mr.Medic has had several failed attempts at taking A from B and decides to parachute in to try a different approach. Mr.Medic glides straight down in order to not be seen by the enemy all over A. He lands and just as he begins his advance is shot in the back by Mr.Assault!
Is Mr.Assault Spawn camping?

 

[Kawaii~~]

A- If your not giving them a chance to get out o fthere base spawn camping or spawn killing w/e floats your boat.
B- Depends he should try to be sneaky to get to wookie if he spawn kills then w/k/b But if he manages to reach wookie and wapow him and he QQ then its legal cuz he did use it as a safe haven
C- Nope you're technically in there base but you're not shooting them as they run out or as they spawn. I do that a lot but just focus on a point D... *looks at kerak*

 

[St0n3d Llama]

This is a hazy topic. We could use some official input.

 

[Kerak]

This is a hazy topic. We could use some official input.

Totally agree we need the official input of the DL or the advisers PLZ & THX
Detailed explanation PLZ & THX

 

[Captn Bean]

Totally agree we need the official input of the DL or the advisers PLZ & THX
Detailed explanation PLZ & THX

Me 3, let's get some clarification on this.

 

[IngeniusDodo]

I think the problem is that we're using a blanket term. Spawn camping and spawn killing are two different subjects, though related. As I see it, spawn camping is, literally, camping a spawn point. This could be offensive (e.g., position near enemy spawn points at A, enemy uncap) or defensive (e.g., position near friendly spawn points at C to protect them, friendly uncap), and I don't see a problem with it. Spawn killing, on the other hand, would be killing a player who has either recently spawned or recently left the spawn zone. Spawn killing is the exploitation of a camping position (though mobile spawn killing, e.g., running around enemy uncap, is possible) to deny the other team access to assess, objectives, support, or even the map as a whole. Spawn killing is the problem for the victim. Spawn camping is, generally, what enables it.

As an admin from the INSurgency division, I'm used to the rule that spawn camping is only an offense if it is either malicious, or if there is no out path out. I see my opinions from INS track into BC2. Of course, INS lacks tactical objectives inside the spawn points, so we can effectively make spawn camping and spawn killing equivalent. BC2, as we know, is different. I don't think that a rule against spawn camping is the way to go. I think if we discourage spawn camping, make spawn killing a violation of rules, and consider spawn killing on a case-by-case basis (Clear intent for asset denial? Were they engaged first? Were their actions meant to bait the enemy into engaging them so that they could fight back?), with a greater degree of leniency toward players who are spawn killing legally (i.e., engaged first, asset denail, etc.) would be the way to go.

Of course, a key word here is malicious. There are times when it just happens. Frankly, those times happen way too frequent for the w/k/b process to suffice. Understand the situation; don't just react to complaints that A killed B at location C.

Following that:
A: This is spawn killing. w/k/b, as per the norm. Now if he was watching them, and waiting until they proved to be an immediate threat to his allies, he wouldn't be in trouble.

B: Entering enemy spawn is fine, especially if it's to kill an enemy camping his own spawn. If he'd get started on the w/k/b process depends on his situation when he engaged the enemy. Did he see them spawn, thought that they might ruin his chances of finding the wookie and kill them? Or did he try to avoid them and only engage when they were an immediate threat to his life? If so, did he bait them into attacking him? Applay w/k/b as necessary.

C: By current definitions, yes, he is spawn camping. However, if he is not spawn killing, he is not in violation of the rules. It's no different then waiting behind a crate for the enemy team, except he's engaging targets that he would otherwise be allowed to engage.

I think a good solution, though hard to implement, would be to incorporate spawn protection when spawning at the uncap ONLY, and combine that with a decreased spawn timer if you are killed in your uncap (which may pair well with an increase if you are killed in the enemy uncap). Ideally, the protection would wear off as soon as a player spots an enemy (which will help prevent exploitation of invulnerability with snipers, as they auto-spot when they look at targets), or fires any weapon.

EDIT: Actually, a better defense against enemies trying to exploit spawn protection might be to make the first round they fire (if they fire while spawn protected) a blank. Draw the tracer, but not the projectile. After that, spawn protection goes bye-bye. That will prevent heavy snipers and rocketeers from exploiting it too much. Few things irk me as much as getting killed by in invulnerable sniper who I found first.

 

[St0n3d Llama]

I think this is all mainly regarding Conquest mode. I know that we allow all forms of spawn killing in Rush, and we all abuse it frequently. I have been on both ends of it on maps like Isla, and been sniped the moment I hit the ground. Maps have two rotations, so everyone gets the opportunity to pwn some spawns in Rush, but that doesn't make it any less annoying when you are on the receiving end, it just perpetuates the cycle. I would love to see something like spawn protection for maps that require you to parachute in, just to give the attackers a fighting chance.

 

[Howl Pendragon]

To be honest, I think spawn camping is when you kill an enemy as they spawn, or within 25 yards of their spawn.

 

[SingularPoint]

A: Totally fine, spawn points re-spawn vehicles and heavy armor faster then capture points for this purpose.
B: He's glitching when you think about it. But assuming the map has that legit crazy spot, it's still fine. As long as Gustav doesn't camp around, moves through the enemy base steadily and doesn't cause the other team to rage.
C: It's fair as the other team could just spawn in their spawn and kill him if he has no intention of shooting back

 

[bobola]

It seems like everyone seems to have different opinions on these senario.
Thats kind of the problem it seems. We need to be on the same page so some people wont get kick. :confused1:

 

[Music]

Ok, I'm going to lock this thread and clear up the "Spawn Camping" ruling.

A:
Mr.Wookie who's famous for his crazy headshot aim decides to camps at Point C which is directly infront of the enemy's main base. Picking off enemies head as they spawn. Would that be consider spawn camping? He's not in the enemy's base at all.

In this case, yes it would be considered spawn camping. The enemy is spawning in their main base.

B:
Mr.Wookie discover a spot where he can spot the whole entire map right in the comfort of his own base! But better, he's camouflaged within the depts of the trees. From this, he created many raging players on the other team.
But Mr.M2Gustav had enough of his deaths. He ventures into enemy territory and hope to find Mr.Wookie. During his search for Mr.Wookie, Mr.M2Gustav encountered a few enemies who had spawned. But in order for Mr.M2Gustav to continue his search, he would have to dispose of the enemies. Would this be an act of Spawn camping?

In this case, "Mr. Gustav" would be spawn killing if decides to kill them. If he is good enough, he can sneak past the enemy and kill Mr. Wookie without anyone being the wiser. Also, he does not have to go into the enemy spawn to kill Mr. Wookie, he can shoot his gustav from outside the enemy base and kill the sniper. Mr. Wookie is free to shoot out of his spawn, but keep in mind that it does not mean immunity from someone killing him. Once you spawn and fire at an enemy in your spawn, you lose that ability to cry "spawn killing!".

C:
Mr.Wookie had surived, due to the fact that a ban hammer appeared and knocked Mr.M2Gustav into the sky. Fear he might come back, Mr.Wookie head out to find a better hiding spot. He sneaked across the map all the way into his enemy's base. And to his suprise, there was another spot where he could hide and be able observe the whole map! However, this spot was right inside the enemy's main base. Mr.Wookie knows the rules well, no spawn camping. So Mr.Wookie think to himself. " What if I'm popping heads who are not in the main base. But at capture point. That is not spawn camping? Or is it? "

Now this is an interesting case. In this scenario, Mr. Wookie is not spawn camping. If he is killing enemies at capture points, then it's perfectly fine. Of course, Mr. Wookie has to know that it is very dangerous due to the fact that he can be ambushed by an enemy at any time because he is in their base. Also, Mr. Wookie should also know that if he does this, he better not be using a glitch to hide himself from view.

~Music, signing-off.