Quick Scoping and the problems it brings

[Attackturkey2]

Dear eGO Community,

I apologize if Quick Scoping has already been discussed previously but I just wanted to start a thread with hopefully more specifics. I play quite frequently on the Charlie map and of lately I have not been playing it. I have found that the map is usually dominated, mostly when the population is around twenty to twenty-eight people, by Axis snipers. Now I am aware that Axis have the advantage during the early parts of the map but I think it is clear when something is askew.

Not to call any players out but I have taken a fairly decent demo of a Sniper who averages around a 30:1 kill per death ratio. After watching this video it is clear he is Quick Scoping every single time, so much that you can hardly see the skin of his rifle when he is letting off multiple shots.

Now I am not trying to complain that this is unfair, I know that is it not a hack, but I definitely think it turns players away from the map when day after day this is happening. I hate seeing my favorite map being turned into a sniper fest the majority of the time and I think others may agree with me. Overall, I just wanted to start this thread to see if people wanted to speak out about it. Thank you.

~Attackturkey

 

[ronpaul]

Turkey thanks for taking the time to register on our forums and draft such a polite thread. I think you are right about a couple of things. For starter's, Axis clearly has the advantage in the early stages of a round of Charlie. This advantage was designed to be counter-balanced by the advantage gained by the Allies when they breach the Axis seawall and enter objective areas. The problem you seem to be pointing out is that this sniper is largely denying the Allies the opportunity to seize that advantage by pinning the team on the beach.

I have several thoughts concerning this matter and other more abstract matters that deal with DoDS in general. First, you are also correct in stating that the quick scope is neither a cheat nor a punishable offense. With that said, in terms of policy there is not much we can do against a skilled player such as the one you've mentioned. We could approach this player and kindly ask them not to use a particular weapon or join a particular team but we would be setting a dangerous precedence that could tarnish the brand of eGO.

Our servers are open to all who wish to play so long as they follow the rules. Beyond that, I believe it is bad policy to deny players who wish to play a certain way. We do not ask "bad" snipers or MGs to choose another class nor do we force good players to choose a class they're skilled with. We do not ask good or bad players to join or leave this team or the other, and while not entirely unprecedented, we can also not in good faith ask a player to abstain from joining our server who isn't breaking a rule.

With all that said, I earnestly believe that players who join the Allied team regularly on Strand know exactly what they are up against. Personally, a victory on the Allied side of any map is a far greater personal achievement than a victory with the Axis. I think Strand was designed to frustrate the Allies. It makes victories even sweeter when they are hard-earned and I also think that map attracts that type of player who can and wants to put his nose to the grindstone, work through the frustration, and find themselves deeply satisfied when they finally earn a victory. There is a reason Strand is not very popular and you seem to have nailed it.

It is unfortunate that your player is stifling your teammates with his skill at sniping and scoping, but what may frustrate one player will drive another to succeed. Some will quit and then some will try harder to kill that sniper. It may not balance out perfectly but it certainly creates a scenario where a hero can emerge, and DoDS is all about the Glory.

 

[ChocolateVillain]

Well said Ron well said.

 

[Dr.Compton]

Ron is our designated Heavy Hitter for threads such as this. And I would like to Doublely Thank you for not coming on here and screaming, but instead writing a well thought out message.

Another thing you can do is rotate our servers. Play on Strand, then when you feel like something is one sides, go to a different server. Its what I do.

 

[Ned Flanders]

When I encounter such a sniper, my goal is to knife them!!! lol I've done it a couple of times

 

[Dutchoper72]

Best possible out come to fix this. Valve updates and takes away quick scope but that probable wont happen :/

 

[Blue Stealth]

Best possible out come to fix this. Valve updates and takes away quick scope but that probable wont happen :/

to fix what?

if you want the quick scoping "fixed" then I should ask valve to cut the thompson range in half and fix the trajectory cone while they are at it.

Quick scoping is a part of the game that everyone can use. It is a completely fair and legitimate method of killing. Just because some players can do it better than others does not mean it needs to be scrapped or done away with. It definitely does not mean it is a bug or glitch. If you guys have trouble with people quick scoping, play differently and change your tactics.

To restate my point, eGO will not hinder players' legitimate efforts to improve their skills. You will find this competitiveness in all online multiplayer games.

-Blue

 

[Von]

just dont play strand lol. thats my way of avoiding it. i just play flash instead . and it really doesn't matter whether you have guys quick scoping or not. The snipers and mgs are going to get you at first on strand no matter what. like Ron Paul said its just how the map is. you just gotta do what you can and try not to rage quit too often lol

 

[efren]

to fix what?

if you want the quick scoping "fixed" then I should ask valve to cut the thompson range in half and fix the trajectory cone while they are at it.

Quick scoping is a part of the game that everyone can use. It is a completely fair and legitimate method of killing. Just because some players can do it better than others does not mean it needs to be scrapped or done away with. It definitely does not mean it is a bug or glitch. If you guys have trouble with people quick scoping, play differently and change your tactics.

To restate my point, eGO will not hinder players' legitimate efforts to improve their skills. You will find this competitiveness in all online multiplayer games.

-Blue

Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking :thumbup1:

 

[headpiercer]

couldnt agree more with Ron..

 

[BIOHZRD03]

ive always thought of quick scoping as a legal hack since #1 its not punishable and #2 its not how the game was intended to be played...but thats just my two cents...ill gladly stick with my good scores to be a good sniper rather than go for an awesome score to be a good quick scoper...

 

[ronpaul]

ive always thought of quick scoping as a legal hack since #1 its not punishable and #2 its not how the game was intended to be played...but thats just my two cents...ill gladly stick with my good scores to be a good sniper rather than go for an awesome score to be a good quick scoper...

Quick scoping or quick-switching? Quick-scoping is sprinting and then scoping, quick-switching is hitting a key to switch quickly back to the sniper rifle after a shot. A legal hack? I don't think it's so black and white so as to say "good sniper vs. good quick switcher". I think good snipers start to quick-scope/switch to become better snipers. Quick-switching has nothing to do with aim, how well you peek, or anything other than escaping more quickly (quick-switching does not chamber a round any quicker than staying scoped, and a slow quick-switcher will even take longer). The only benefit quick-switching offers is higher mobility and a better field of vision in between shots. I don't think that makes snipers that use it bad or less talented than "natural" snipers, just an alternative style of playing such as:

• Rambo MG
• Shooting rifle grenades at the floor (and picking them up)
• Support sniping
• Sprint quick-scoping

Besides, snipers not using quick-switch are often static and do not move or advance. Snipers using quick-switch and quick-scoping can absolutely devastate a front line and push the action. That's why I like it, it affords me the ability to be precise, effective, and maintain survivability.

 

[BIOHZRD03]

Quick scoping or quick-switching? Quick-scoping is sprinting and then scoping, quick-switching is hitting a key to switch quickly back to the sniper rifle after a shot. A legal hack? I don't think it's so black and white so as to say "good sniper vs. good quick switcher". I think good snipers start to quick-scope/switch to become better snipers. Quick-switching has nothing to do with aim, how well you peek, or anything other than escaping more quickly (quick-switching does not chamber a round any quicker than staying scoped, and a slow quick-switcher will even take longer). The only benefit quick-switching offers is higher mobility and a better field of vision in between shots. I don't think that makes snipers that use it bad or less talented than "natural" snipers, just an alternative style of playing such as:

• Rambo MG
• Shooting rifle grenades at the floor (and picking them up)
• Support sniping
• Sprint quick-scoping

Besides, snipers not using quick-switch are often static and do not move or advance. Snipers using quick-switch and quick-scoping can absolutely devastate a front line and push the action. That's why I like it, it affords me the ability to be precise, effective, and maintain survivability.

i dont do either. i am still able to be mobile and have no problem bein the first in a room AND maintain (usually) better than 2:1 ratio (which is good considering about 85% of the snipers ive seen that run a better ratio with the quickswitch/scope camp so hard the server puts their tent up automatically when they join the server). i never said that anyone who uses little tricks and short cuts is a bad sniper. simply that there is a difference between being a good sniper and a good quickswitcher. is it possible to be both? yeah, i reckon so. just dont think that is the case in all situations. one of my main problems with it is along these lines. ramboing an MG was possible to do, burning nades was possible, hitting someone long range with a support class well, its possible but not really probable...firing hundereds of rounds as a sniper without ever chambering a new round...yeah...missed where thats possible.

 

[Dutchoper72]

if you want the quick scoping "fixed" then I should ask valve to cut the thompson range in half and fix the trajectory cone while they are at it.

hmm then Kar can only do 80 damage tops. That gun needs to be nerfed.

Quick scoping or quick-switching? Quick-scoping is sprinting and then scoping, quick-switching is hitting a key to switch quickly back to the sniper rifle after a shot. A legal hack? I don't think it's so black and white so as to say "good sniper vs. good quick switcher". I think good snipers start to quick-scope/switch to become better snipers. Quick-switching has nothing to do with aim, how well you peek, or anything other than escaping more quickly (quick-switching does not chamber a round any quicker than staying scoped, and a slow quick-switcher will even take longer). The only benefit quick-switching offers is higher mobility and a better field of vision in between shots. I don't think that makes snipers that use it bad or less talented than "natural" snipers, just an alternative style of playing such as:

* Rambo MG
* Shooting rifle grenades at the floor (and picking them up)
* Support sniping
* Sprint quick-scoping


Besides, snipers not using quick-switch are often static and do not move or advance. Snipers using quick-switch and quick-scoping can absolutely devastate a front line and push the action. That's why I like it, it affords me the ability to be precise, effective, and maintain survivability.

True but no one in real life quick scoped in world war 2. Not to mention no other world war 2 game lets you do that. So i agree it is a legal hack.

 

[Sumac]

I don't quick scope, not because I see an issue with it, just that I have never gotten used to it. I will try it once or twice a day, but it always feels clunky to me and I don't enjoy not having full energy when I am done scoping.

Quick switching I try and use most of the time. When I check a corner I usually scope and un-scope normally, but when I fire a round I try and quick switch. I say try because a good portion of the time (probably over 50%) I don't do it because I haven't trained myself to do it all the time due to un-scoping normally after I "peek". The reason I try not to quick switch after I peek is because if feels to me like it takes a longer amount of time to rescope to target if I quick switch without needing to chamber a new round.

I think what makes an effective sniper (in my opinion ONLY) is more about their movement than reload speed. It obviously helps or I wouldn't try to do it after every round I fire, but I think not being static has a much great impact.

Obviously "quick-scoping" can get you on target faster if you are good at it, I am not and I still think I do pretty darn well as a sniper. Will I lose to a good sniper that is quick-scoping, probably but I don't begrudge them that, they have simply learned a tactic that I have not.

And Bio I understand your reasoning, but I simply disagree with it. There are so many aspects of this game that don't lend themselves to the realistic nature of war that being frustrated with someone using a quick-switch or quick-scope seems almost silly. Is there anyone here who turns up the brightness in game? Anyone who jumps as they fire a rocket? I have no issues with people learning a class well and using it to their advantage. Now if you want to discuss scripting that is an entirely different issue.

 

[ChocolateVillain]

True but no one in real life quick scoped in world war 2. Not to mention no other world war 2 game lets you do that. So i agree it is a legal hack.

Then again no one in WWII re spawned... It's a freaking game. I don't see how it is any kind of hack. It's a technique that is mastered for playing this game. Like Ron said, If done wrong it makes you slower. But if done right you get a few milliseconds faster to sprint away.

In the end tho nothing will change about it, really the first two post summed it up. Every post after it is just flaming each side including mine.

Top players always have and always will use it.

 

[anomaly]

Another method to quickswitching is to right click right after your shot and sprint away. I personally prefer people who quickscope because it gives me a greater satisfaction to know I killed someone who is better then me. I don't see the problem with quickscoping, it's just another part of the game, and a game is not a real war.

 

[Endorama]

The game has flaws.. Or exploits that are fair. It takes skill to master quick scoping. So take it as it is.

 

[ronpaul]

i dont do either. i am still able to be mobile and have no problem bein the first in a room AND maintain (usually) better than 2:1 ratio (which is good considering about 85% of the snipers ive seen that run a better ratio with the quickswitch/scope camp so hard the server puts their tent up automatically when they join the server). i never said that anyone who uses little tricks and short cuts is a bad sniper. simply that there is a difference between being a good sniper and a good quickswitcher. is it possible to be both? yeah, i reckon so. just dont think that is the case in all situations. one of my main problems with it is along these lines. ramboing an MG was possible to do, burning nades was possible, hitting someone long range with a support class well, its possible but not really probable...firing hundereds of rounds as a sniper without ever chambering a new round...yeah...missed where thats possible.

I'm siding with Sumac and Chocolate on this one. Show me the History Channel special where they show Allied rifleman shooting a rifle grenade into the floor and instantaneously picking it up and throwing it 40 yards. Maybe in boot camp and it was probably a bloody, messy accident.

Also, quick-switching snipers don't fire hundreds of rounds without chamber a round... you have to reload after five shots which clearly shows the sniper loading rounds into the chamber. :glare:

I guess I'll budge and say that there are bad snipers whose only source of ability is the quick-switch/scope, and maybe you are mobile and effective but I attribute all this stuff to graphical problems with the game. You just don't see the sniper chamber a round after a shot if you're quick-switching, but if it takes the same amount of time as if you did see it, where's the improbability in that? Do you see from where the pistol is drawn or does it just magically appear in the hands of a player? Was quick-switching at ALL possible, can you really go from rifle to pistol to knife in under a second in real life?

Every game is full of ways you can take advantage of the engine and use it to improve your game. To not do so, in my opinion, is folly. You could even make the argument that this was how the game was designed. You could quick-switch in DoD 1.6, CS, and every half life engine-based game in creation. When they made source, they built it with the quick-switch functionality included. If they thought it was inappropriate or advantageous they would not have included it, patched it, or removed it as they have with so many other labeled exploits. If anything, I would push for removal of this tactic in realism matches which is, however, almost impossible to enforce.

 

[ronpaul]

hmm then Kar can only do 80 damage tops. That gun needs to be nerfed.

True but no one in real life quick scoped in world war 2. Not to mention no other world war 2 game lets you do that. So i agree it is a legal hack.

Why would the KAR do the same amount of damage as the Garand with half the rate of fire? Are you trying to ruin vanilla dods? That's what Realism is for. Absurd.

Also, I have a hard time believing that somewhere, some time, a sniper in World War 2 didn't sprint feverishly away from a battle, see an enemy and immediately stop sprinting and raise his rifle to his eye to scope in on that enemy. That's all quick-scoping is. We all know there were just sickkk dirty snipers in that War, do you really think that never happened? I hope not Dutch, please say no.