Bad Company 2 "I don't care about being an admin anymore" but this time I'm calmer

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Letherfut

I made one post
So, I saw some people discussing my previous post in chat today. The sentiment seemed to be "yeah, his post was a bit emotional but he had some good points." So, I figured it might be worth my time to re-write my post, this time with just the good points and not as much emotion.

First, jtipton, I will not be getting on TS to discuss these things with leadership. Isn't one of the purposes of the forums providing a place players and leadership can discuss things? I'd rather type than speak, especially in a community of strangers, and pushing TS so hard just makes me less interested in being a part of this community. Very discouraging to see someone flaired as a "community manager" respond to eight paragraphs with all of sixteen words.

For background: I first started playing BC2 on the PS3 back in 2011-2012 or so. Logged 330 hours or so, and stopped playing as the PS3 fell out of fashion. In 2018, I picked up BC2 on Steam, and started playing again. I now have 1,005 hours played on PC, and 668 of those hours I have spent playing on eGO's 24/7 Heavy Metal server. Those 668 hours played are the experience I am speaking from here.

Here's Letherfut's Top Five Problems with the eGO 24/7 Heavy Metal Server;

#1: Baserapers.
The W/K/B system is hilariously ineffectual against baserapers. This game has a tiny playerbase, relatively speaking, it should be easy to completely weed out the rulebreaking subset of BC2 playerbase. There will always be big spikes of noobs whenever the game goes on sale on Steam, and with those noobs come people ignorant of the rules, but I see a baseraper on the server once every 1-3 hours like goddamn clockwork, Steam sale or no. On top of that, once a week or so, you'll get a match where there is no admin online, one person starts baseraping, and other people follow that person's example. Not to mention the population of players who enjoy baseraping, but know not to do it while an admin is online. cough coughRadenzcough

So, why aren't all the baserapers banned from eGO? Simple, because they get EVERY opportunity to learn they can only baserape when no admins are online.

First, they get warned. At least half of baserapers aren't even going to notice this in the chat, fresh messages in the chat disappear so quickly. If they DO notice, it's a heads up of "Hey, this player with the same clan tag as the server just told you not to do that" from which they can easily infer "oh, so there's no rule enforcement when nobody with that clan tag is online." If I was someone who got a kick out of baseraping, or who just wanted to pad my K/D/secure an easy win, when I got warned, I would start baseraping MORE, because being warned told me exactly when the rules will or won't be enforced. Radenz, for example. I know Radenz as a baseraper. I spent several matches last night, while no admins were on, having to fend him off from the uncap at regular intervals. When an admin joined later, he stopped baseraping. Dude clearly understands exactly how to avoid having to face consequences for his actions.

Then, they get kicked, which is functionally just another warning, albeit one that can't go by unnoticed in the chat. The same conclusion, "Hm, that wasn't an auto-admin kick, I guess I can baserape whenever nobody with the eGO clan tag is online then," can easily be drawn.

If, somehow, they're dumb enough to continue baseraping while an eGO member is online, they'll get banned. Now, I use to not take an issue with this part of the process. I guess my naive self sort of assumed the default ban time was something that would, like, have an effect, but it isn't. Apparently, even as an eGO, you can only temporarily ban people. Holy shit, if this isn't one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. How do you expect to deter people from breaking the rules, when there isn't even anyone there to enforce the rules half the time, and the other half of the time, nobody has the capability to enforce the rules in a permanent fashion? This kills my interest in being an admin even more than it had already been killed. This turns the "ban" part of "w/k/b" into functionally just another warning. If a baseraper gets to this point without learning that they can just wait til no admins are online, it's probably because they're having difficulty breathing and blinking at the same time.

#2 W/K/B.
This is basically a continuation of #1, but this time focusing on the W/K/B system as a whole rather than just baserapers. I gather that this system is in place to give players the benefit of the doubt, and is an eGO universal thing. I'm not here to say W/K/B is a bad system in general, nor that eGO should change it clan wide. I am here to say that W/K/B is entirely too lenient of a policy to use on the 24/7 HM server. Using W/K/B on BC2 is like trying to skim a layer of oil off of a swimming pool, using a colander. If you want rulebreakers to actually sit up and pay attention, warn them with a longer than one week ban. That still communicates "you can baserape when no eGO's are online", but it also communicates "we're ****ing hardasses about the rules and you better watch out."

#3 Passive play.
I use to really like the rule "do not camp in the uncap with vehicles' because in theory it should curb passive play and encourage teams to go on the offensive even if they are losing badly. However, I recently learned this rule is actually in place to prevent people from having a reason to shoot into the uncap. Just... wow. Do you want it to be allowed to shoot back at a tank camping on the edge of the uncap, or do you want people to not camp in the uncap with tanks? Thankfully, this contradiction isn't an issue, because nobody ever enforces the "no camping in the uncap with vehicles" rule.

So, since none of the rules address passive play, let me explain why they should. The first 45 seconds of each match are the most critical; 90% of the time, the team that captures B first wins. Once one team caps B, and clears out all resistance, the other team gives up. Most players go recon, all the tanks start camping, at this point the match is lost even though only 2-5 minutes have passed. It's not fun to be on the team that gives up, and it can get pretty boring on the winning team sometimes. However, most teams never realize that literally all it takes to cap B is taking out the AA and pushing a couple tanks in. Most teams don't get to find this out, because the tank players who camp keep their tanks longer than the tanks who push, so eventually all your tanks are occupied by people who want to camp. Once the tank-campers have your tanks, there is zero fun left to be had on the losing team. Anyone who plays on the server enough to be on these forums already understands this, so I'm just reiterating it so that maybe, just maybe, something changes policy-wise in response to this meta.

#4:
We're getting into dead horse territory, but people breaking the rules while no admin is online. This is pretty self-explanatory, and a source of frustration I think some people replying to my last post missed. Shoutout to Tikkun for noticing and understanding that point of mine, and even pointing that out to Iron Kaiser. Frustration with the lack of consequences experienced by people breaking the rules while no admins are online, was my primary motivation to become an eGO admin, and one of my bigger frustrations in my previous post. Most people replying to my previous post seemed to have missed this, or at least didn't address it.

#5:
The entire process for someone becoming an eGO admin. I'll break this down into a few different points.

- The server's "we are in need of admins" message. Tikkun made a post about this, right here on the forums, well over a month ago, and nothing came of that, so I suppose it's just my turn to piss in this particular wind here. This message is so useless. It makes it sound like, somewhere on the Edge-Gamers site, there's a form or something where you apply to be an admin, when in reality the process for becoming an admin is so much more convoluted than that.

- The soft requirement that you use Teamspeak. This was one of the larger reasons I lost interest in becoming an admin. I don't use Teamspeak. I'm not interested in installing it, just so I can use it for ONE server in ONE game. If I was turned off to the admin process by this, no doubt other people have, too, so who knows how many admins the server has missed out on because of this. Probably not too many, but definitely more than one. I thought about installing Teamspeak, forcing myself to use it even though I despise any kind of vocal communication not done in person, but I realized I would have just stopped using it once I reached the rank of eGO.

- The ban request system. Cool, a way for =(e)=s to do something, even though they have no admin privileges! Too bad Trubble never bans people for more than three days, completely defeating the purpose of requesting they be banned at all. The ban request system means that rulebreakers reported by =(e)=s likely aren't even on the server when they're banned, and I'm just a broken record when I say that the odds aren't good that these temp-banned people will try to join the server within that three day window.

"Well, Fut, you're talking mad shit, you gonna offer some solutions or just bitch?"

This is a good point, and something I neglected in my last post. Here are my proposed solutions to the problems outlined above.

#1: A new, baseraper-specific rework of W/K/B.
The first time someone baserapes, warn them BY NAME using !yell, and NEVER use the chat to warn people. Chat messages are missed all the time, it's physically impossible to not notice a !yell message. This step provides a guaranteed heads-up to players baseraping out of ignorance that they need to stop, giving the benefit of the doubt eGO clearly values so much, while still being firm against people who are baseraping maliciously. Second offense, ban them for a month. They were warned using !yell, there is zero excuse for them to baserape again. Banning them for a month retains some benefit of the doubt in being a temp ban, while still being very firm in that a month is a long time. Upon their third offense, ban them permanently. Anyone willing to wait a month, just to be able to baserape again, deserves zero benefit of the doubt.

#2: A tweak to W/K/B protocol specific to the 24/7 HM server
Require admins to use !yell to warn, to guarantee no warnings are missed in chat. Warn people by name, to add a little weight to the threat warning people carries. If someone needs to be banned, they should be banned for at least a week. Banning someone for three days is paying a $10 parking ticket: annoying, but completely inconsequential.

#3: Rules against any form of camping in the uncap, and against people camping in tanks.
Definitely my least important and least feasible proposed solution. Making a rule against camping in tanks would make for a solid couple months of admins having to root out players like CCCP_Oliver and Chris_n_Edgar, who are both regulars and notorious tank campers, which would be annoying for everybody. However, I think it wouldn't really shake up the suffocatingly stale meta on the server. This would be an end to matches where US gets B and C, then a bunch of people in B spend 20 minutes exchanging munitions with three tanks camping on A treeline. Instead, US would get B and C, then have to fight for their life to keep B from being overrun by enemy tanks. Then RU would have to defend B with the same vigor. I think we can all agree that the funnest rounds are the ones where the battle constantly goes back and forth, and the winning team scrapes out a win with less than 100 tickets left.

This also curbs against recon camping in the uncap, or someone spending the whole round on the uncap AA, two types of players that are more hindrance than help to their team.

#4: Get an auto-admin or votekick system.
RaS has an auto-admin, and I like that server a lot for it. You get autokilled if you kill someone while that someone is inside their own uncap. This seems like the perfect solution to the problem of baseraping happening while no admins are online. I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to arrange an autoadmin script that does that, as well as auto-killing any player who enters the enemy uncap. I struggle to understand why this wasn't implemented years ago.

I mention a votekick system just for sake of being thorough. I can't imagine that the server which makes =(e)=s fill out what is essentially paperwork just to report someone, would be willing to put the power of kicking people into the hands of the playerbase as a whole, pubs and eGO members both. I can hope, though.

#5: Not my place to tell eGO how they should or shouldn't select their admins. Being a clan gives you the right to have total authority over how that happens, and it's a system that isn't unique to BC2. I've already presented my opinions on this system.

I love the Heavy Metal server. I really do. Over 60% of my PC BC2 playtime has been spent on it for that reason. But god damn, learning how the eGO administration actually functions has given me a burning hatred for the milquetoast, barely-functional, completely ineffective way in which the server is moderated. The carefree dispersal of benefit of the doubt to anyone who can breathe all but invites people to take advantage of it, and the server is worse for that.
 
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Chaonyx

EGO Zealot
=(eGO)=
hmm interesting
 

XM-M8

Poster
Hello, ill post my opinion on this (not all points mentioned), although im no admin here.

background:
  • 4.000+ hours of Bad Company 2
  • former admin of BC2 clan DU4 with 8 EA servers + 8 nexus servers (with auto kick options and other mods)
  • last 2 years, most of the time spent on EGO server (currently as easy_im_old)

Goal of this discussion (at least mine): keep server populated by having regulars around
Some hard data (from gameme, last week period): 1695 players connected, 9,3% players deliver 50% of total playtime
  • top 50 players deliver 25% of servers total playtime
  • top 100 palyers deliver 39% of servers total playtime
  • top 158 players deliver 50% of servers total playtime

1. baserapers (ill connect this point with auto admins as they are overlaping). Unpleasant situation for raped palyers. Overal situation on the "heavy metal market" is, that baserape is allowed. so its percieved normal. this may cause problems with players who do not speak english. Which is not an excuse for them. Todays practice = admins do it personaly, is good enough.
What is needed:
  • empowerment of "E" people with kick command only for baserape reasons (you have to enter reason for kick anyway, so its a control mechanism)
  • more admins from different time zones to cover non-US playtimes

..auto admin has more negatives than positives. how to set up rape borders? how to deal with long shots? e.g. i can hit heli from uav hill to enemy spawn with AT4 (without realising, it howers in spawn). connected with your idea, i would be banned for 1 month in 2 shots. Another example: team owns 3 flags, there is shootout from spawn to closest flag. boom. you kill/kick/depopulate winning side in minutes.

2. passive play: your concept sees only your perception of "fun". not all players are interrested in winning. some are there for K/D. some for chill and sniping, some have no ide what to do at all.. and of course, some are tryhards (in a positive way:). making your perception of fun as a rule is nonsense and very hard applicable. it would be OK on some closed squad rush server, whrere only invited people with certain mindset play


4. votekick: human as such is a perfect creature. but people as such, are idiots. This would sum up my thoughts about votekick. This is server owned by somebody and there is no room for democracy. Votekicking someone as trump-legend is positive outcome of this. Votekicking of unconfortable palyers would be downside of votekick. And only few notoric whiners could be enough for positive vote (servers with votekick need around 8 YES votes to kick..). Other downside: most of the players dont care. so to make votekick effective, you decrease number of votes needed and than few ppl can manipulate it.



To sum it up: All this topics are thin line of having some standards as a clan and keeping regulars happy (because they make server full and lure fresh ones to full server). Overal concept is good (my opinion) but it needs more empowered =e= members (with kick command, strictly only for baserape & excessive teamattack purpose) + focus on attracting new members from EU, ASIA timezones (20% of players come from Russia, Germany+Poland and another 20 from mix) by direct "scouting".


I understand, EGO sees no need to do any changes, as this server is currently nr. 5 of all BC2 servers (europe 24/7 is currently total nr.9 and antiblood toal nr.10). which makes EGO top ranked heavy metal server.
https://www.gametracker.com/search/bc2/
 
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NrKissed

Poster
=(eGO)=
Thanks guys for a solid discussion thread. I don't play BC2 but appreciate your passion. You are always welcome to come listen to us complain about BF5 and its complete lack of Admin functions any night! Maybe some day you will join us.
 

Major Trubble

Thread Junky
Manager
If , Quote :
empowerment of "E" people with kick command only for baserape reasons (you have to enter reason for kick anyway, so its a control mechanism)
more admins from different time zones to cover non-US playtimes

then they should be able to kick teamgriefers because those are by far worse than baserapers , and if you are going to do that , kick anybody in the uncap that is sitting in a tank/helo/buggy if they are just sitting there and other players can't use vehicle , and kick guys that just stay on the AA and shoot out of uncap , and the ones in tanks that keep shooting from the border of the uncap and then backing up to repair , instigates Baseraping . The enemy (ies) shooting at them are sure to hit innocent bystanders .

Just my 2 cents ;)
 

Major Trubble

Thread Junky
Manager
Votekick in my opinion is a really bad idea , considering some times there are more trouble makers than regular , fair , honest players .
 

XM-M8

Poster
griefers were mentioned in summary (my bad for not mentionig it above ). to the rest of sarcastic comment -=eg= have such an option too, but they don do it. thats what rules for admins are about (to set a frame).
 
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dark_teridon

Poster
=(eGO)=
I think you're missing an important part of the ban request system -- repeat offenders do get a permanent ban. I understand it's frustrating how long you have to put up with the offender, but... we can't go right to perma-banning people on the first offense.
 

Major Trubble

Thread Junky
Manager
By the way , I was not being Sarcastic , just expressing my opinion XM-M8 , I just sent this message to killroylll

" He does have some valid points though , it is really frustrating when you are an Edge-Gamers member and you can't help your community or protect / help the regular players , I was where he is when I had my =(e)= and =(eG)= , it was so frustrating to not be able to get rid of the trouble makers and see the good players leave . And we definitely need to get rid of that " We need admins " message , it is misleading . And , we should have a message specifically saying " NO BASERAPING " and one saying " DO NOT DESTROY TEAM ASSETS " , or something similar . "

I can see why Letherfut was so frustrated , because like I said " I was where he was " not too long ago , I left the server a few times because I could not do anything even though I was an Edge-Gamers member , but mostly I put in a ton of ban requests , which in turn got me noticed as trying to help our community , which is how you get promoted , not somebody just handy you the keys to the Rolls Royce just because you want to go for a Joy Ride .

Putting in Ban Requests does not mean those perps are going to get banned , it is a way of reporting them and getting management's attention , and they decide what to do about the perp , maybe they will wait and see if the player will do it again , maybe they will give the player a 3 day or 1 week vacation , and if he/she comes back and does it again then it is a permanent vacation , it all depends on the type of offence and also if there is a language barrier , if the perp is just an $sshat , then that shows up quick enough to decide the outcome .
 
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itsfulloftuna

EGO Addict
=(eGO)=
The odd times that I do happen to hop into BC2 to admin or deal with a player, I go in tagless. Hell, I can't even change my username on BC2. I guess, the best admins are the ones that are unseen.

Here's my thoughts:
Hey, you don't want to use TS, then, that's fine. If you are looking for a more involving chat-system, there is the EGO Discord. Perhaps a meeting can be arranged where you are chatting in private, as opposed to "post on a form; wait for a response" type system. I think there was a lot to discuss, and things can get lost in translation, which is why jtipton suggested talking.

Votekick:
A votekick system is a double-edged sword. First, people would need to use it. Most have chat turned off or don't care about it. Second; people need to use it correctly. I've had MANY of times that I got votekicked from one specific player on BF3 on another server. This guy had it out for me and when he initiated a votekick, people just jumped on and !yes'd me. I'm definitely not cheating, look at my stats. Sure, people can be W/K/B'd for abuse of the tool, but that is added work from the admins and related to "my kid wanted to go down the slide first" bullshit at a McDonald's Playplace. Hey, that segue's to...

W/K/B
Yes, the W/K/B thing can be broken. One admin can warn someone, then hop off, another admin takes their place, and warns the same player an hour later. Happens the next day, if not within that tight of a timeframe. Players are going to play, and some are going to cause trouble. Luckily, the overwhelming playerbase are returning customers, so they hop on to play and have some fun.

Honestly, I think that the rules need to be tightened, but then you face retaliatory behavior, false stories, and loss of players from an already diminishing playerbase. Where is the line drawn? "Oh, second time you have come in to contest your ban for the same things? I'll ban you for..3 days? a week? a month? permanently?" I'm not going to speak on an acceptable degree in which to turn that screw, because, according to one member of eGO, I'm not "qualified to discuss the adjustments of the rules of banning or supply any valuable input" and I'm not a manager. I'll leave it up to them.

Final
It just seems that you got frustrated on your overall experience on the server and decided to police the town as much as possible to make it enjoyable, and I applaud you for that. Ultimately, it is up to you if you want to hand back in your baton. You bring up some great points, and I hope that someone takes some of that into consideration. Don't take any shit from anyone, and at the end of the day, it's just a game.
 

Tikkun Olam

The Rude Canuck
Believe it or not, this will be my last word on the subject.

A few things...eGO actually does permanently ban people on first offence without warning or appeal. It's a special policy for using the "N" word, and it's the reason I first came into conflict with the administration here years ago. In real life I am vociferously against "mandatory minimums" because of their side effects and this is exactly the same thing. The word is part of the vernacular in many segments of the US and Canada, too. When the servers were all still populated on a regular basis, I saw too many players come online and use a variant of the word as a greeting, then BANG!, the ban hammer was applied. Just like that. Even before they could be warned about the sensitivity to the slur, and perhaps modify their behaviour. *Likely* modify their behaviour. I was adamant the policy should be changed to that applied to any other slur so that players could have a chance to show it whether it was just a common word, or if they were bigots. The management was adamant too, one big brass in particular. I don't believe that policy has changed.

Gaslighting goes on here. heh. I have to use myself and this thread as an example, again. A couple of months ago I suggested (in a professional and contributory manner I might add) in this forum to change the server advertisement. I thought it was important to try to get players in the community...to shoot the breeze and to share experiences, not to complain about this or that, or just to gain admin privileges. That shouldn't be the point of this kind of place. When there was no response I thought it was important enough to post the suggestion to the main suggestion forum. It was treated as a (the word literally used by the top brass was) "bitch". The server message was only changed because other admins decided to say something in Letherfut's two threads. What the heck is that?

Administrative snowflakes. Sorry guys, I have to say it. You're pitifully sensitive to the slightest question on your authority or opposing opinions to what you say. "We the admins"? C'mon Beemer! How separate from "the men" should you be? Are admins NCOs or are they generals? If you're all generals, you know what the guys on the ground think of your opinion unless you're a Patton and on the front lines all the time. And there's no "work" to becoming an admin...all you have to do is *care*, learn server commands, and apply them appropriately...without allowing the power to go to your head during gameplay. When I DM'd a leader with my input to the thread regarding Lib's Alaaaa, and asked him if he was okay with me giving input like that, his response was "it's fine, just don't get carried away with it". I don't carry it at all anymore.

And ban requests? Selective, and maybe part of the gaslighting effect. I posted so many ban requests, some with video, that were dismissed out of hand that I stopped. Seriously, what's the use if you've offended the poor guy running the thing.

I'll say it again. I don't contribute because you guys are doing a great job...because you're not doing anything special...I contribute because I like the people who play on this server, and I like the game. When there's always an overarching threat that some snowflake is going to ban you because he feels offended, it starts to piss me off and my GFF drops like a rock. The game isn't for the admins, it's for everyone else. Admins serve. It's their function. Here you want it the other way around, and that's no fun at all.
 

Simon

Forum Legend
=(eGO)=
Sorry, but anyone who freely says the N-word has no place in our community or servers. I cannot fathom any reason anyone would feel the need to type it out - perm banning for using the word is something I will forever support and one of the reasons I stuck around the eGO community. Giving people a "Warning" won't change their ways - they are still racist. Racism has no place in my time trying to enjoy games.
 
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Major Trubble

Thread Junky
Manager
When it comes to the " N " word , we usually do warn before banning , if the player is typing in chat then he/she should see the warning , if not that is their problem , then there are the ones that just come onto our server to cause problems and mouth off , they may or may not get a warning , considering they more than likely have already been warned in the past . We are not here to warn players players over and over about breaking server rules , and yes some admins do not tolerated rule breakers as much as others , but that is what being human and individuals is all about .

Thank you for your input / opinion and your time , personally I do not consider negative responses a threat but a chance to improve on our process .

Take Care , be safe
 

Tikkun Olam

The Rude Canuck
Sorry, but anyone who freely says the N-word has no place in our community or servers. I cannot fathom any reason anyone would feel the need to type it out - perm banning for using the word is something I will forever support and one of the reasons I stuck around the eGO community.

I had to respond. What I say here sums up exactly what I said when I was an O and this is the same wall I ran into when I became persona non grata.

Simon, you're one of the management types here I've come to respect, so take this for what it is.

Do you not see the implicit racism in your own statement? How narrow is your world view that you don't know that there are entire communities of people, mostly of African ethnic origin, that use the term freely among themselves. Among those communities it's as common as "dude".

It's used as an expletive, a salutation, an expression of brotherly love...yet you ASSUME that the person at the other end of the chat is an old bigoted white guy that deserves the clap and the guillotine....not necessarily in that order.

Treating one particular slur that applies to one particular group out of so many groups that are maligned is bigotry in itself. It was such a long, drawn-out argument that should have been obvious to anyone that has read anything about ethics (which includes all military folks and anyone with a connection to large business).

Adamant. It baffles me.
 

Simon

Forum Legend
=(eGO)=
Do you not see the implicit racism in your own statement? How narrow is your world view that you don't know that there are entire communities of people, mostly of African ethnic origin, that use the term freely among themselves. Among those communities it's as common as "dude".

I see no single good value to this word. It has no place in this community nor how it is frequently used. Sorry, but I cannot agree with your reasoning for it and I know for a fact eGO will never chance it's stance on using such a horrible word.

I will continue with my apparently narrow minded view forever. Should eGO choose to change such a rule, it would be the end of my time with eGO.

We admin all types of racism, this just happens to be the most common one we see.
 
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Matrix

EGO Addict
=(e)=
"Even before they could be warned about the sensitivity to the slur"

You really just said people don't know why the N word is sensitive? They used it as an insult so they know it means something

"When there's always an overarching threat that some snowflake is going to ban you because he feels offended"

And there are methods in place such as contesting a ban, contacting a higher authority.
 

Tikkun Olam

The Rude Canuck
Obtuse, perhaps, is a better word.

Is it always an insult, though? Someone comes onto the server and says "Hello My (variously spelled n words)!" and boink! "Banned:racism" You have no idea who the person is, their sex, colour, religious orientiation, how it the expression was intended - You know nothing...nada...zero, yet you feel justified in summary execution.

Words like the C-word are more insulting to a far larger portion of the population (except Australia) but it takes repeated offences to trigger someone's sensibilities for that one.

Bah...
 

Tikkun Olam

The Rude Canuck
And there are methods in place such as contesting a ban, contacting a higher authority.

Who's going to go the trouble of contesting a ban on a server they've never played on? Pfft.

I'm going to stretch my neck out and suggest that I'm not the only straight white guy in this conversation.

And just make things crystal clear...the "n" word is the only portion of my diatribe to be addressed here....because I've offended your "sensibilities".

When I was trying to make my point in private forums about the *word*, I had to go through contortions just to discuss it. It's a word in a language for crying out loud! People that are old enough to read should be able to discuss any word in the language when the subject is the *word* itself. And it's a word that's easy not to use, but if your immediate group uses the *word* colloquially you may make an error and be perfectly willing, able, and with full understanding never use it again.

What don't you understand about that? What don't you agree about with that?
 

kuantum

šŸ”Arbiters? InternšŸ”
=(eGO)=
The n word has no place on our servers. Hard R is never okay in any context. Soft a, at least in the CS division, is a W/k/b. Discussing social commentary around the soft a and other variants is a moot point. You might disagree with that stance, but it is what it is.

I don't get why you can't make a CL about this, LE is the one who can change the rules. But if you want my opinion on it? You start allowing the soft a, servers doesn't become better. More often than not, it grows to be more toxic over time.

I don't even know why we're here discussing this. The topic on hand got derailed hard.
 
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