You know what time it is,
It's time for one of my big, long winded posts hope yall enjoy me sitting down for 3 hours to write a post and then you demolish it by reading it in 15 mins.
so last night when I was on stream we had a long ass conversation about roleplay, the quality of roleplay in the server, the stifling of RP from crims and the terrible one way street mentality that everyone has (cops/crims/civilians), I don't want anyone to think there that I'm going hard here on crims. Everyone, myself included is apart of the problem.
(here's the conversation starting on stream, it goes on for two hours www.twitch.tv/videos/798703127?t=00h13m03s )
So lets clear some things up if some how you don't know who I am or where my bias is in the server (unlikely but new players exist) I've been playing the FiveM server since December 2017, I been a cop since 3/25/2018, there has been 1-3 days in between that time and now where I wasn't a cop due to the chief duck situation, but from there to now its been 962 days and counting being employed with the respective police department (LSSD, LSCPD, LSPD) so it should be clear that I play cop, and I'm most likely bias toward cop.
I don't just play cop though, I've been playing crim for a good while now maybe 7 months since I started smuggling weapons and drugs into the city for a certain group of completely legal civilians however, the way I play crim is completely different from how I see other people play crim, my character has never been arrested, never been a suspect in any crime and never really done big big crimes when it comes to what happens in the server on a day to day whether that be attempted murder of a leo or civilian, or flight from law enforcement, bank robbing etc, my way of doing crime is the (police are unaware it even exists) type of crime, so there's no reason to attempt to destroy evidence, or remove blood with bleach etc, this is one of the bigger reasons of the post but the post at large is about all of our RP, and attempting to remove the one way street my way or the highway type of mentality.
Problem #1;
Police take revenge on criminals who make them mad. by wasting the crims time and taking a longer time to book them, I've seen in the past where criminals have been metagamed by police where police would search the players inventory (before they were alerted to you searching their inventory) to see if you had drugs on you to say "do i smell anything" etc, this was awhile ago btw. Police will stack charges on people for having a "bad rp scene or toxic rp scene" and you will see charges stacked up and fines stacked up, police have all the power and if the police officer is corrupt they can straight up arrest you and send you to jail without you ever getting access to a lawyer, on that front most times (not to put anything on the doj) but most times you wont even have access to a lawyer, and just end up going to jail for what ever anyway. people some times get arrested for no reason other than wasting the cops time, so they just get jailed for something that they wouldn't get jailed for normally, I.e oh you insulted me, ima bring you to jail for obstruction of justice.
police will actively get into accidents and continue (im guility as much as the next cop) i've seen it happen, and i've done it, I've seen cops flip there car and continue, then right after complain about a civilian doing the same thing, there was a time in the past that police would get downed at a bank robbery and then get someone else to revive them with the f6 menu then rejoin the scene (there was punishment for this happening and new rules).
there's so much more I'm missing, but I don't see the problem because I am apart of the problem.
Problem #2;
Criminals stifle role play for cops, (ex; Jeremy duck was shot by police but wasn't downed, Jeremy duck fled the scene being chased by cops, Jeremy duck's friend Jeremy **** came back to the scene where Jeremy duck was shot and removed the evidence by dosing the evidence in bleach or gasoline or removing a bullet casing.) so what's wrong with that? you can do that IRL and I'm sure its happened and will happen again irl, this is stifling investigation RP for cops by committing the "perfect crime" and the only thing that achieves is making everyone upset that the RP is garbage, and its pushing people away from the server, making excuses like "Police should've been guarding the evidence, police are in the wrong" is missing the problem that they are causing.
lets use a real example, I've been (and still am) investigating the shooting at garage D that took place 11/07/2020 I made it clear via OOC that I wanted all the information about the scene sent to my discord dm's so then I can verify if I walked over evidence and then I would add it to my report, I made sure to look around areas where I think there would be evidence before even looking in my discord dm's because that imo would be metagaming in some way, so I did that, on stream, for 3 hours. Then after my investigation was complete I went and looked in my dm's and read them aloud to the stream, here's some things that those people said.
I've attempted to keep the last few things as anonymous as possible the goal isn't to "dunk" on these players but more to show you, the reader, that this problem is a problem and its a big one, these bullet points aren't made to call anyone out or get anyone in trouble, I am apart of the problem as much as anyone else. The thing here is that players don't really want to give cops every bit of information because maybe they feel like cops will metagame the information, and not only that but how many people would actively incriminate there characters when its the difference between getting caught and not getting caught, criminals for good reason already hate going to jail, and some may feel like the punishments are to much, and some cops think the punishments aren't enough because criminals keep going around and shooting cops all the time (what else is there to do when you have everything?)
Committing the "Perfect crime";
if you commit a crime, evidence should be included, if you shoot someone, there should be a shell-casing, civilians should be able to pick up the shell casing but then if they do that then someone had to of heard a gunshot around the area where it happened call it a "Local Report; heard a gunshot around this area" (we have this currently but you criminals could give cops more than just the 911 call of the shot, add some information, maybe someone has a vehicle that left the area quickly, throw them a bone), if you are wearing gloves, then there should be another way that cops can investigate to lead to you being a suspect in the case, do something to make the RP more enjoyable for cops, and in turn for yourself because you are getting enjoyment from doing the rp, then giving the cops enjoyment from investigating an rp that actually has evidence.
If you were shot on scene, and bled on scene, there should be a way to clean the blood up, but you would need an item and it would put you in a cancelable animation that lasts 5 minutes. and until that animation has been completed the blood will remain, but if you are the one who put yourself in that situation, then you should deal with the consequences, if you want to commit the "Perfect crime" there are more ways to do that than getting directly involved yourself, imo there shouldn't be a way to remove ALL evidence because that is unfair, in some cases unrealistic and it doesn't provide a fun fair environment for all parties involved.
if you want to commit the perfect crime be a little more discrete and not use the obvious things that will easily incriminate yourself, a few examples of what would get yourself arrested in the real world (Ex. using your own firearm, using your own vehicle, doing things without a mask on, posting incriminating things over social media, telling a group of people that you don't know that you were involved in a massive shooting and you like to kill cops) this you would think is obvious, but the majority of these examples happen in the server without punishment, you will see people saying shit like, cleaning laundry over twitter, or **** 12, i kill cops etc, just yesterday I had a dude who was involved in that shooting involving 6 dead cops literally say he was in a group of people the day before last, i was on my civ but still he doesn't know whos a undercover cop and whos not.
My way or the highway & the one way street mentality;
this happens a lot in all aspects of role play in the server. (Ex; its either you RP the evidence I dropped, or you don't) (Ex; cops are the problem) (Ex; crims are the problem) this happens so often, its one or the other sides fault, its everyone's fault, its mine, its yours, its everyone's. Stop saying "crims are toxic and their rp is garbage" stop saying "cops are toxic and their rp is garbage" all you are doing is feeding into it and making the problem worse, not better. If and when you have a problem with a certain way someone role played this scene or that scene or the way they handled it here's a list of things that you can do about it other than complaining about it.
if its about police you can;
talking about either side being @$!%$ helps no one
Thanks for reading
Please discuss this respectfully in the comments.
It's time for one of my big, long winded posts hope yall enjoy me sitting down for 3 hours to write a post and then you demolish it by reading it in 15 mins.
so last night when I was on stream we had a long ass conversation about roleplay, the quality of roleplay in the server, the stifling of RP from crims and the terrible one way street mentality that everyone has (cops/crims/civilians), I don't want anyone to think there that I'm going hard here on crims. Everyone, myself included is apart of the problem.
(here's the conversation starting on stream, it goes on for two hours www.twitch.tv/videos/798703127?t=00h13m03s )
So lets clear some things up if some how you don't know who I am or where my bias is in the server (unlikely but new players exist) I've been playing the FiveM server since December 2017, I been a cop since 3/25/2018, there has been 1-3 days in between that time and now where I wasn't a cop due to the chief duck situation, but from there to now its been 962 days and counting being employed with the respective police department (LSSD, LSCPD, LSPD) so it should be clear that I play cop, and I'm most likely bias toward cop.
I don't just play cop though, I've been playing crim for a good while now maybe 7 months since I started smuggling weapons and drugs into the city for a certain group of completely legal civilians however, the way I play crim is completely different from how I see other people play crim, my character has never been arrested, never been a suspect in any crime and never really done big big crimes when it comes to what happens in the server on a day to day whether that be attempted murder of a leo or civilian, or flight from law enforcement, bank robbing etc, my way of doing crime is the (police are unaware it even exists) type of crime, so there's no reason to attempt to destroy evidence, or remove blood with bleach etc, this is one of the bigger reasons of the post but the post at large is about all of our RP, and attempting to remove the one way street my way or the highway type of mentality.
Problem #1;
Police take revenge on criminals who make them mad. by wasting the crims time and taking a longer time to book them, I've seen in the past where criminals have been metagamed by police where police would search the players inventory (before they were alerted to you searching their inventory) to see if you had drugs on you to say "do i smell anything" etc, this was awhile ago btw. Police will stack charges on people for having a "bad rp scene or toxic rp scene" and you will see charges stacked up and fines stacked up, police have all the power and if the police officer is corrupt they can straight up arrest you and send you to jail without you ever getting access to a lawyer, on that front most times (not to put anything on the doj) but most times you wont even have access to a lawyer, and just end up going to jail for what ever anyway. people some times get arrested for no reason other than wasting the cops time, so they just get jailed for something that they wouldn't get jailed for normally, I.e oh you insulted me, ima bring you to jail for obstruction of justice.
police will actively get into accidents and continue (im guility as much as the next cop) i've seen it happen, and i've done it, I've seen cops flip there car and continue, then right after complain about a civilian doing the same thing, there was a time in the past that police would get downed at a bank robbery and then get someone else to revive them with the f6 menu then rejoin the scene (there was punishment for this happening and new rules).
there's so much more I'm missing, but I don't see the problem because I am apart of the problem.
Problem #2;
Criminals stifle role play for cops, (ex; Jeremy duck was shot by police but wasn't downed, Jeremy duck fled the scene being chased by cops, Jeremy duck's friend Jeremy **** came back to the scene where Jeremy duck was shot and removed the evidence by dosing the evidence in bleach or gasoline or removing a bullet casing.) so what's wrong with that? you can do that IRL and I'm sure its happened and will happen again irl, this is stifling investigation RP for cops by committing the "perfect crime" and the only thing that achieves is making everyone upset that the RP is garbage, and its pushing people away from the server, making excuses like "Police should've been guarding the evidence, police are in the wrong" is missing the problem that they are causing.
lets use a real example, I've been (and still am) investigating the shooting at garage D that took place 11/07/2020 I made it clear via OOC that I wanted all the information about the scene sent to my discord dm's so then I can verify if I walked over evidence and then I would add it to my report, I made sure to look around areas where I think there would be evidence before even looking in my discord dm's because that imo would be metagaming in some way, so I did that, on stream, for 3 hours. Then after my investigation was complete I went and looked in my dm's and read them aloud to the stream, here's some things that those people said.
- "Agera belongs to subject. Shootout was caused by cop chasing subject. Shooters were dressed the same as the ones at the power plant and both bank robberies"
- "You find bullet casings from an ak 47 shot from the second level from the parking garage" (referring to a car in the next bit) "vin is scratched off and the person who was shot was wearing a mask which covered his whole face and gloves so there's no way of tracing him" "No prints, the person that stole it was wearing gloves and X person wears gloves at all times"
- "all i really know is that theres a bunch of 5.556 casing at garage d and 50 cal and a few pistol maybe some blood but not 100% sure"
- "Lots of 5.56 ammo and a couple 30-round mags on the ramp between level 1 and 2" (they are referring to garage d floors) "like 50 casings, I had gloves on.
- "I did thermite and jumped the wall out the back and took a boat" (we then had a conversation about witnesses[locals] seeing them pass this location and that location on the street, I denied to do this due to fairness for all involved, however I did accept the following due to it possibly being a irl police report if what happened in this next thing were to happen irl. "The boat I drove away in was abandoned at the boat garage in town and noticed by a local it was reported to the police it was a pear pineapple colour, it had four sets of wet pants and shirts all black all matching, there wasn't anything stripped off the boat so it did have plate and vins if the boat has one, registration comes back to subject."
- "in this spot" (picture of a location) "two people were shot with a heavy sniper, one of these being me. My person at the time was wearing a large vest and the bullet entered but didn't exit, all blood was kind of soaked up by the large coat."
I've attempted to keep the last few things as anonymous as possible the goal isn't to "dunk" on these players but more to show you, the reader, that this problem is a problem and its a big one, these bullet points aren't made to call anyone out or get anyone in trouble, I am apart of the problem as much as anyone else. The thing here is that players don't really want to give cops every bit of information because maybe they feel like cops will metagame the information, and not only that but how many people would actively incriminate there characters when its the difference between getting caught and not getting caught, criminals for good reason already hate going to jail, and some may feel like the punishments are to much, and some cops think the punishments aren't enough because criminals keep going around and shooting cops all the time (what else is there to do when you have everything?)
Committing the "Perfect crime";
if you commit a crime, evidence should be included, if you shoot someone, there should be a shell-casing, civilians should be able to pick up the shell casing but then if they do that then someone had to of heard a gunshot around the area where it happened call it a "Local Report; heard a gunshot around this area" (we have this currently but you criminals could give cops more than just the 911 call of the shot, add some information, maybe someone has a vehicle that left the area quickly, throw them a bone), if you are wearing gloves, then there should be another way that cops can investigate to lead to you being a suspect in the case, do something to make the RP more enjoyable for cops, and in turn for yourself because you are getting enjoyment from doing the rp, then giving the cops enjoyment from investigating an rp that actually has evidence.
If you were shot on scene, and bled on scene, there should be a way to clean the blood up, but you would need an item and it would put you in a cancelable animation that lasts 5 minutes. and until that animation has been completed the blood will remain, but if you are the one who put yourself in that situation, then you should deal with the consequences, if you want to commit the "Perfect crime" there are more ways to do that than getting directly involved yourself, imo there shouldn't be a way to remove ALL evidence because that is unfair, in some cases unrealistic and it doesn't provide a fun fair environment for all parties involved.
if you want to commit the perfect crime be a little more discrete and not use the obvious things that will easily incriminate yourself, a few examples of what would get yourself arrested in the real world (Ex. using your own firearm, using your own vehicle, doing things without a mask on, posting incriminating things over social media, telling a group of people that you don't know that you were involved in a massive shooting and you like to kill cops) this you would think is obvious, but the majority of these examples happen in the server without punishment, you will see people saying shit like, cleaning laundry over twitter, or **** 12, i kill cops etc, just yesterday I had a dude who was involved in that shooting involving 6 dead cops literally say he was in a group of people the day before last, i was on my civ but still he doesn't know whos a undercover cop and whos not.
My way or the highway & the one way street mentality;
this happens a lot in all aspects of role play in the server. (Ex; its either you RP the evidence I dropped, or you don't) (Ex; cops are the problem) (Ex; crims are the problem) this happens so often, its one or the other sides fault, its everyone's fault, its mine, its yours, its everyone's. Stop saying "crims are toxic and their rp is garbage" stop saying "cops are toxic and their rp is garbage" all you are doing is feeding into it and making the problem worse, not better. If and when you have a problem with a certain way someone role played this scene or that scene or the way they handled it here's a list of things that you can do about it other than complaining about it.
if its about police you can;
- Report said law enforcement officer / deputy to there complaint form found here
- if its regarding breaking server rules you can make a contact leadership on the player
- if its regarding something else that you don't think police will handle (illegal things done by police) then you can go to the DOJ and start a case against them with a lawyer.
- Do something to change it (make a forum post like I'm doing right here)
- if its regarding in character illegal stuffs you can report them to the police.
- if its regarding breaking server rules you can make a contact leadership on the player
- if its regarding something else you can contact the DOJ and sue them
- Do something to change it (make a forum post like I'm doing right here)
talking about either side being @$!%$ helps no one
Thanks for reading
Please discuss this respectfully in the comments.