Counter-Strike Delivered Rename "influencing the vote"

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MS

Senior Technical Manager
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Hi all, I've had some issues and criticism in the past with the rule that states that you are not allowed to "influence the RTV vote". This rule exists on the Jailbreak server, and I'm not entirely sure if it is present on the other servers (TTT, Surf, etc.). The first time I read this vote I thought "I suppose that's fair, you want to prevent the warden from forcing players to vote for a specific map".

The wording of this rule is horrendously misleading. How this rule is enforced and the intentions behind this rule is to prevent players from even mentioning how to or to rock the vote. While certainly much more stringent on players, it ironically doesn't restrict saying "vote 1" or "vote clouds". So to summarize, saying "type rtv to choose a map" is influencing the vote, but typing "vote 2" isn't influencing the vote.

This makes 0 sense. If someone were to come up to you and say that you should vote in the 2020 election, you likely wouldn't say that they're influencing your vote. However, if someone were to tell you to vote for Biden, then that would be much more apparent that they are attempting to influence your vote.

Now, whether or not it makes sense to restrict players from merely saying to rtv or how to, I believe the current wording of this rule is very misleading. Rewording the rule would be much more appropriate and would make much more sense.
 
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I think the rule exists so people don't switch off a map too quickly. Letting people know which one you would like to be chosen does not really apply to that. I can see where you are coming from, because to a new player that could seem slightly confusing.

I'm thinking explaining how RTVing works to someone asking, isn't really the same as influencing RTV.

Maybe an AT or someone with more knowledge could give some advice as to why it is this way.
 
As stated in the Jailbreak Server Rules
  • Do not influence RTV votes.
Personally don't see how it is misleading, it's simply telling you to not tell others to rock the vote. The rule exists to prevent people from influencing the masses to RTV and change the map, which due to the size of Jailbreak isn't that hard. When people are kicked for "influencing" it's for influencing players to "rock the vote".
 
As stated in the Jailbreak Server Rules
  • Do not influence RTV votes.
Personally don't see how it is misleading, it's simply telling you to not tell others to rock the vote. The rule exists to prevent people from influencing the masses to RTV and change the map, which due to the size of Jailbreak isn't that hard. When people are kicked for "influencing" it's for influencing players to "rock the vote".
Think of it like this, if a news report were to have an article titled "YouTube caught influencing 2020 election" but all the video points out is that YouTube has the "Go Vote" sign, would you consider that influencing the election? Now consider how a brand new player might interpret the rule, and which part would make more sense to the new player that "influencing" would be related to. I understand how it might be obvious to you, however the initial impression is in my opinion the exact opposite. The rules are meant to be concise and clear, this rule is concise but extremely unclear.

You could leave the current sentence as is, as long as you add another sentence explaining what is considered influencing.

I also still think it's hilarious how saying to rtv is influencing the vote but saying to vote a specific map isn't.

Rock The Vote was founded in 1990 with its original goal to get people to vote. Typing rtv is to vote. The player votes for the map, THAT is their vote. So influencing rtv VOTEs would be telling players which map to pick.
 
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If I'm correct, it seems that your issue here is with the wording of the phrase "Do not influence RTV votes", not the rule itself, so I'm going to answer as such.

I can see how the phrasing can be misleading. The slice 'Influencing RTV Votes', makes it seem that it's referring to the action of attempting to have others vote for a specific map, in a poll which was triggered by an RTV; however, it's referring to the action of attempting to have players trigger the RTV vote by typing 'rtv'. Therefore, I've personally referred to the rule as Influencing RTV to avoid confusion. Possibly this rule could be rewritten as
  • Do not influence other players to Rock the Vote (ie. Say "Type RTV in chat")
or...
  • Do not influence voting to RTV (ie. Say "RTV this map")
This is the first time that I've seen someone have an issue with the way the rule is phrased, but after taking another look at it, I can understand your viewpoint. If I were a new player, my cognition of the rule would most likely be not telling people to vote for a specific map. I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you here, and I hope the AT team can recognize your frustration with this.

HUGE +1

If you can't vote under the influence, how can you influence the vote? HUH?

Maruchan Maruchan how are you an admin
 
Think of it like this, if a news report were to have an article titled "YouTube caught influencing 2020 election" but all the video points out is that YouTube has the "Go Vote" sign, would you consider that influencing the election? Now consider how a brand new player might interpret the rule, and which part would make more sense to the new player that "influencing" would be related to. I understand how it might be obvious to you, however the initial impression is in my opinion the exact opposite. The rules are meant to be concise and clear, this rule is concise but extremely unclear.

You could leave the current sentence as is, as long as you add another sentence explaining what is considered influencing.

I also still think it's hilarious how saying to rtv is influencing the vote but saying to vote a specific map isn't.

Rock The Vote was founded in 1990 with its original goal to get people to vote. Typing rtv is to vote. The player votes for the map, THAT is their vote. So influencing rtv VOTEs would be telling players which map to pick.
It ain't that deep
 
Rock The Vote was founded in 1990 with its original goal to get people to vote. Typing rtv is to vote. The player votes for the map, THAT is their vote. So influencing rtv VOTEs would be telling players which map to pick.
^this is dumb
rtv is used to change the current map to another
 
Personally I think the wording of the rule currently is fine. On a side note why can't I react to posts in this thread?
 
Look I don't think it's much to ask to just reword it to "Do not tell people to RTV".
 
Your suggested usage is even more confusing.

Seriously, it ainā€™t that deep or hard. I donā€™t think you fully understand it in the first place either by what Iā€™m reading.
 
Your suggested usage is even more confusing.

Seriously, it ainā€™t that deep or hard. I donā€™t think you fully understand it in the first place either by what Iā€™m reading.
How is it more confusing...? It's what admins punish people for. If someone gets punished for influencing the vote and they ask the admin why they got punished, chances are the admin's gonna tell em "don't tell them to rtv".
 
Asides from the topic, can we also have this rule/enforced applied to TTT (and maybe anywhere else its not applying to) as well?
 
So what are you suggesting here? Because you are throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall.
- Do you want to change the wording of the rule so that it is more clear about saying something like "Don't influence others to type RTV"?
- Do you want it to change the rule so that it stops people from saying what map to vote?
- Do you want it to stop people from influencing others from RTVing AND map voting?
 
So what are you suggesting here? Because you are throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall.
- Do you want to change the wording of the rule so that it is more clear about saying something like "Don't influence others to type RTV"?
- Do you want it to change the rule so that it stops people from saying what map to vote?
- Do you want it to stop people from influencing others from RTVing AND map voting?
The current thread is primarily the first point.

In regards to the other two, I personally would want the second point to be discussed, however I think for now an agreement on the first one would be beneficial.
 
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