Military

[Guile]

Is it true that if you enlist into the military and then become and officer you are more highly respected than those who just become officers. There is a word for it I believe that it is called a Mustang. I have heard numerous people say it is true and have done lots of research on it now I am asking eGO's opinion on it.

 

[Leader Bean]

In many cases (I know in Canada) you need several things to become an officer. The biggest being a university degree, then bilingual skills, then the willpower/training to follow through with being an officer. Officers have to go through officer training in addition to basic training, where they try to weed out crappy leaders plus language training and combat training. At any step in this process an officer can wash out and never be allowed back without redoing ALL of the training.

I don't know about "respect" just because you were a grunt and worked your way up isn't necessarily the reason why veterans are respected. Veterans are often respected because they are experienced, know the system, have lots of knowledge to share, and don't take any crap. I know lots of enlisted guys that have spent years trying to move up the ranks and they only made it to sgt. or a warrant officer. While within the NCO ranks those are good ranks (excellent NCO ranks), even the lowliest 2 year-in 2nd. Lt. can order around a 30-year veteran warrant officer (technically). Although, the smart officers don't throw their weight around when it comes to experienced NCO's, as experienced NCO's are good at getting revenge. Best to work with them and protect them from other stupid officers, that's the best/most useful policy.

Veteran officers who worked there in from the ranks often did so without university education, had to learn the language, then had to demonstrate a certain degree of leadership/intellectual aptitude to move up. All of that stuff takes time. While respectable, it doesn't necessarily command respect in and of itself. Morons could spend 30 years trying to drive out of the private ranks and never realize they aren't promoted because they don't have the necessary skills or intellectual kit. Years-in and field experience don't impress me, skills and knowledge do. Someone could learn quickly and drive up the ranks, or possess qualifications which demonstrate aptitude in many areas without having grunt experience.

 

[Bravo Company]

Well if you've been in the military and didn't start out as a butter bar then get a battlefield commendation or something I'm sure your soldiers are going to respect you more.

 

[USCG Hammer]

In my opinion, Yes. A person who starts out on the deck plate level (enlisted) and works his/her way up to the Officer rankings are given more respect. Simply because they understand were "we" (enlisted) come from and what "we" go through.

 

[Leader Bean]

Easier said then done. In most countries, good luck getting a battlefield commission when you're a member of the peacetime military.

 

[J_landry]

In my opinion, Yes. A person who starts out on the deck plate level (enlisted) and works his/her way up to the Officer rankings are given more respect. Simply because they understand were "we" (enlisted) come from and what "we" go through.

That's pretty much exactly what my recruiter told me.

He also mentioned that warrant officers also have the same effect since most if not all candidates are E-5 or up when they get accepted into warrant officer training. There is the odd E-4 or below and civilian that gets accepted, but that's pretty rare he tells me.

 

[chief-stinky]

Short answer, yes. What Hammer said. Prior enlisted officers usually can relate to their subordinates better. They understand performance reports, medals, and awards better than regular officers. Most of this comes simply from being in the ranks for a period of years.

The other officers will eventually gain that experience, so no biggie.

 

[The Yeti]

It really comes down to experience vs training. (As everyone has been saying.) If I were to graduate with a Masters in business, yet never worked a day in my life. Would you trust me to run a business? Probably, I am obviously qualified because of my training.What if there were a candidate who has worked his way up from a janitor position for the past 30-some years? But really, how would that candidate feel if I took the position. Here I come in, half his age with no experience, telling him how to run the show. Both candidates are perfectly qualified, it's just a preference.

In my experience I've found that those who lack experience do not appreciate simple things as much. Then again, too much experience, and some become stubborn.

Eh, I'm getting off topic. Good night fellas.

 

[PIMP DADDY SMURF]

Damn I'm kind of confused, is this about eGO admins/ranking or like for the actual military...

 

[Ice hearted killer]

about the real thing pimp

 

[PIMP DADDY SMURF]

Oh okay, well then I don't really have any input on this I don't have any experience of that...

 

[ronpaul]

It really comes down to experience vs training. (As everyone has been saying.) If I were to graduate with a Masters in business, yet never worked a day in my life. Would you trust me to run a business? Probably, I am obviously qualified because of my training.What if there were a candidate who has worked his way up from a janitor position for the past 30-some years? But really, how would that candidate feel if I took the position. Here I come in, half his age with no experience, telling him how to run the show. Both candidates are perfectly qualified, it's just a preference.

In my experience I've found that those who lack experience do not appreciate simple things as much. Then again, too much experience, and some become stubborn.

Eh, I'm getting off topic. Good night fellas.

That's a pretty good explanation for it I think. Through my time in ROTC and running around with drill sergeants at fort knox the prevailing opinion among non-comms seems to be that fresh butterbars tend to act like they know everything on the first day they take over their platoon. They all said that on our first day as a platoon leader we should buy our platoon sergeant a drink and straight up ask him how that unit has run and get to know the politics of his non-comms before going total control freak or changing policy. I've never heard a non-comm talk trash about a 2lt who respected his subordinates and their experience, and a platoon leader that understands what kind of relationship to establish with his senior sergeants will prosper.

We were witness to a couple brand new 2LTs with no respect co-mingling with 20-year veteran drill sergeants and it was just hilarious the contempt the DSGs held for them. They didn't even follow orders really, and there was nothing they could do about it.

 

[USCG Hammer]

That's pretty much exactly what my recruiter told me.

He also mentioned that warrant officers also have the same effect since most if not all candidates are E-5 or up when they get accepted into warrant officer training. There is the odd E-4 or below and civilian that gets accepted, but that's pretty rare he tells me.

I'm not sure of the requirements for each branch, but for the Coast Guard, you have to be an E6 or higher to be eligible for Warrant Officer.

 

[SCSwat]

That's a pretty good explanation for it I think. Through my time in ROTC and running around with drill sergeants at fort knox the prevailing opinion among non-comms seems to be that fresh butterbars tend to act like they know everything on the first day they take over their platoon. They all said that on our first day as a platoon leader we should buy our platoon sergeant a drink and straight up ask him how that unit has run and get to know the politics of his non-comms before going total control freak or changing policy. I've never heard a non-comm talk trash about a 2lt who respected his subordinates and their experience, and a platoon leader that understands what kind of relationship to establish with his senior sergeants will prosper.

We were witness to a couple brand new 2LTs with no respect co-mingling with 20-year veteran drill sergeants and it was just hilarious the contempt the DSGs held for them. They didn't even follow orders really, and there was nothing they could do about it.

Dude, you have DEFINITELY been around!
As an NCO myself, we had to nurture those new LT's as they fell off the bus and into their new little world.

For Army requirements, USAREC (recruiting) has its requirements posted
here. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/WOgeninfo_mos.html this is the official army site.

 

[bluefalcon]

Dude, you have DEFINITELY been around!
As an NCO myself, we had to nurture those new LT's as they fell off the bus and into their new little world.

For Army requirements, USAREC (recruiting) has its requirements posted
here. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/WOgeninfo_mos.html this is the official army site.

LOL! nicely said swat!

as for perspective from an infantryman(yeah we are all soldiers, but 11B are our own kind of breed) we have little to no respect for the LT. we do however recognize and render proper customs and courtesies like we would with anyone higher ranking than us. but as for the person, we treat him (sometimes worse than) like a cherry. he is.

now if you go from green to gold(i believe that is a reference to our class a's or the newer dress blue's) then you will have a lot more respect from your guys making your job and life that much easier.... plus you will get that O1e pay.... you will be 2 ranks lower than your commander making somewhere what he does.

also... why not go in the army, do a minimum term, get out and go to college through rotc and the GI-Bill and go back in with a commission? my old PL(platoon leader) did that. he made it to E5. he was on the thunder run into baghdad in the initial invasion. he is a samoan(but only 5'8" and 200lbs) and he is one of the coolest and toughest guys i have ever met. i would go anywhere and fight anyone for that man. he earned his respect in my eyes a long time ago so when someone called him just a butter bar behind his back... lets just say that didnt happen often and only by cherry privates.

what most people dont get is that whatever our reasons for joining whether they are for a job, college, duty, responsibility, etc. we end up fighting for each other. whatever you choose to do, do not ever be a blue falcon(no im not really a blue falcon) because this will only bring you and your guys trouble. always watch out for others before yourself(in combat). when i get into that mode i dont even think about myself, bullets going by me, ied's going off, i care about my brothers and accomplishing our mission so we can go back to the fob and pull gate guard or go on QRF while the pog's eat at burger king or go swimming! lol. anyway, take care of the small things and the big things will take care of themselves.

if you have any specific questions about anything feel free to pm me.

 

[Viktum]

All you guys Write to much! hahaha.. Heres an EASY Answer... You will get more Respect AND, you'll have SO MUCH MORE FUN! being an NCO is the FUN Stuff....if you skip all that Junk, and jump to a Butter Bar, you have to worry about Everyone and Everything Around you. To much responsiblity thrown at you at a short period of time. That should hook you up!

 

[Guile]

yea im pretty sure im gonna enlist while planning on becoming an officer some day

 

[LanceCriminal]

Mustangs can go two ways...

1) As an officer, they recognize the utter bull that Pvt-Lcpl's, even NCO's go through, and remember to look out for their guys. We called ones like that our "Golden Shields", as they were often the only person between us and having do pull BS duties for other sections at the barracks, the kind of stuff they really are supposed to do but tried to skate out of.

2) The other side of the coin is that some of them forgot that they weren't NCO's anymore, and still acted like it. They were 100% mission accomplishment, 0% morale. Just as long as they looked good, that was all they cared about.

Ultimately, you should shoot for being the kind of leader that your Marines (Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, whatever applies) do not want to let down. The kind of guy they give 110% for to make sure you don't have to take the heat for their screw ups. Understanding that your guys are your responsibility is key. Don't just turn around and let whoever have their way with them. If anyone's going to hand out corrective actions, it should be you. Nobody likes doing stupid stuff because someone outside their chain of command pushed their CO into it. Don't be a Blue Falcon ( a buddy f!^#er, not the poster above LOL)


Oh, and for Gods sakes... Don't walk into a new command, tell everyone that everything looks good and you aren't going to make any changes... then change EVERYTHING about how the unit operates..... I HATED that crap...

David
(FMR Corporal of Marines, 0311/8152)