Economy Discussion

[Da1]

Sorry I'm not active on the forums so I'm catching up with the last couple of messages. I'm very happy with the new cheap cars/bikes that issue has been fixed and I'm sure others are happy too. I understand that the economy is made to be a grind so that you can't get rich quick. I think the biggest issue now is just the jobs, mainly the legal jobs (I haven't done any illegal jobs so I'm not sure about those). They are all basically the same thing, drive from point A to point B, not only is this very boring but this promotes no roleplay whatsoever. I am now a mechanic and that is fun and it makes meh money but I would never want to go back to a non-whitelisted job even if the pay is better. I wish there were more legal job options out there that revolved around player interaction or some kind of interaction that wasn't mind numbing. I'm curious if others agree or disagree, let me know.

 

[EchoFX]

Sorry I'm not active on the forums so I'm catching up with the last couple of messages. I'm very happy with the new cheap cars/bikes that issue has been fixed and I'm sure others are happy too. I understand that the economy is made to be a grind so that you can't get rich quick. I think the biggest issue now is just the jobs, mainly the legal jobs (I haven't done any illegal jobs so I'm not sure about those). They are all basically the same thing, drive from point A to point B, not only is this very boring but this promotes no roleplay whatsoever. I am now a mechanic and that is fun and it makes meh money but I would never want to go back to a non-whitelisted job even if the pay is better. I wish there were more legal job options out there that revolved around player interaction or some kind of interaction that wasn't mind numbing. I'm curious if others agree or disagree, let me know.

Those initial jobs are mainly for new characters to get started.

The fact you're a mechanic is amazing and I don't see why you would want to do anything but the mechanic job because it can pay well (if you have clients coming in) and it does lead to really awesome roleplay. Especially just roleplaying being at the shop and people coming and hanging out.

Mechanic roleplay is 10/10. Hence why one of my character's is a Manager for Auto Exotics

 

[LeafParker5]

IMO: The economy isn't trash but its far from average.
This isn't entirely the fault of the economy layout - its two compounding issues.

-1: Value of a Dollar and Aspects of Individual Character Lives.
The start up cash isn't nearly enough to match the price ranges of basic goods in the current economy.
Like the Original Poster - I too steal a car everyday to get around which IC wise isn't how I represent myself.
A simple cheap slow car from the jump or god forbid a motorcycle would be great.

"finance one"... ok sure.
But IRL i can buy a car that completely sucks off the street, sold by the owner for $500-$2k...It wont be anything to write home about, but saves me from pulling new yorkers out there cars just so I can get to work lol.

The amount the jobs pay cost nearly as much as it takes to do the jobs. I made just under $200 from mining and spent $139 on gas to return with the precious stonies. That's fucked up IMO - we won't even talk about food/water or god forbid saving some coin for anything that's non-essential.

Now I know this is a lot of thought and possibly unnecessary since there is a lot of questionable loss when moving things from IRL to RP, But It was an ATV that I refueled...average size gas tank on an atv is 4.50-4.75gallons. Lets say 5 gallons to be easy...that gas trip was $27.80 per gallon of gas IRL...food for thought.

This past almost week nothing I wanted to buy was stocked, and I have been running trains on stocking jobs...which is also only possible if the owner actually sets up the deliveries...so OOC I can be like hell yeah imma buy a bat today, and IC cant do shit after searching 4 stores in the bat department. All because someone who RP owns a shop decided to stay in the living room and get belted by their stepdad for eating Cheeto's on the couch again.

"Tweet or Yellow pages the owner saying to stock up or that you want/need something"
^That for me anyway, is a little to OOC. I would be basically bitching to someone OOC through a ruse of a tweet/YP IC that the store doesnt have what I want come stock it....Maybe that doesn't seem phony/ooc/or a scummy loophole to some but that breaks immersion to me at minimum.
^^Also, You have to pray they even in the city to hear you're complaint.

^^^Also my feels on events etc. I seek active organic roleplay where no one knows how the nights going to go - over perfectly planned out scripted scenarios.

No one should be a millionaire within a month or even two, or AT ALL really...Unless that fits your characters story and you're willing to do that grind.
I mean Runnin' around town pumping cash out of 50 jobs doesn't really fit my character...Wasn't there a rule back in the day? or was that a different server? You're character shouldn't have too many hats. Your crim cant be a crim, cop, gang leader, fireman, mail delivery driver, furniture store employee and a underpass bum... that's why servers have character slots.

Realistically...Would you ride a public bus operated by a M.C. Gang member who also part time uber drives, and you've spotted taking out your trash? even if you would, IRL...that's too many things for one individual realistically.

So for my character to be expected to be a bus driver, mine, run gun store deliveries, stock shelves just to make a living... it really taints the immersion of your particular character and their characteristics and what they would actually do in life - if you stick to the job(s) that fit your character....you make zero money without breaking character or immersion by doing "whatever you can to make money" I.E.: every job available.


2: A Perfect Formula is Created not Copied
I think this should be addressed and is the actual issue.
Everyone wants the server to operate like other servers, or have certain things like other servers, or have certain things function like other servers...

This cripples this server.
Here's my logic on that.

In a server thats full 24hrs a day via players in various timezones - it completely justifies having to have an actual player run certain businesses - say, selling a car to you at pdm. There is fat room for RP there! 100% - but in a server that does not have 24hr max capacity - it generally sucks to get on to a dead city and you cant do anything car wise. Its very obvious that if you want to get something done you can't necessarily play "when you want" - you have to play when you know people are on...which is kinda wack.

If the server did what made sense for the server and not what other servers are doing (because it works for them) this server would be better off.

at least 8-10 hrs out of the day there isn't anything going on, or to do because its heavily reliant on the server having bodies in it - "because that's what other servers do" - This server doesn't have the player count round the clock to pull that off.

its unwise to operate that way and expect to gain new players.
this isn't a lan party, people from all time zones and work schedules play 5M. We cant pull in anyone who plays outside of this servers "rush hour" because once the body count leaves the server so do all the mechanics and activities.


This is where someone chimes in with "Its called RP go RP!" as for something to do in these times.
Lets take that statement and compare two character types...and yes...the classic ones.

Crims and Cops.

For someone like me who loves petty crime.
when the server is dead
you lose:
producing drugs
breaking down drugs
(^for the record i think cops should be on for these activities^)
Selling drugs
no heists
no house robberies
buying or even browsing cars
blah blah blah...
sooooo...it basically turns your crim into a law abiding citizen ...which if you're not choosing to play as...is frustrating.
Sure, you can be a crim asshole and trash talk or get into a shootout but...that's stale.

Imagine for those that don't play crims but cops.
If for a good portion of the night you
were not able to access your mdt
were not able to send people to jail when you arrest them.
your cuffs don't work

whatever else is "essential" to cop RP.

and when mentioning that
you get told to just go RP anyway.

like, how tf you do that?


Just my thoughts on stuff.
I'm on the back of the boat with the band.
whether we arrive at our destination or leo decaprio dies and we sink...

Imma play the shit out of this Violin.



-Leaf

 

[Rekty]

LeafParker5 bruh

"-1: Value of a Dollar and Aspects of Individual Character Lives.
The start up cash isn't nearly enough to match the price ranges of basic goods in the current economy.
Like the Original Poster - I too steal a car everyday to get around which IC wise isn't how I represent myself.
A simple cheap slow car from the jump or god forbid a motorcycle would be great.

"finance one"... ok sure.
But IRL i can buy a car that completely sucks off the street, sold by the owner for $500-$2k...It wont be anything to write home about, but saves me from pulling new yorkers out there cars just so I can get to work lol.

The amount the jobs pay cost nearly as much as it takes to do the jobs. I made just under $200 from mining and spent $139 on gas to return with the precious stonies. That's fucked up IMO - we won't even talk about food/water or god forbid saving some coin for anything that's non-essential."

You can vote and get 800/1000$, enough to finance a v low-tier car, if you don't want that you can do it for a few days and get a decent car, without doing any jobs at all. So ya you can buy one for i think 3k?
Theres literally cars for:
3300$ full, 825 Downpayment, 3465 Total. Think theres like 3 w that price. finance payments r weekly aswell, and are paused right now. youd only have to spend a few hundred bucks a week to keep/get one of these cars

Most jobs dont cost that much or pay that little, also if you spent more money by not fueling up your car at a player owned gas station, then that makes it more expensive too.

The unemployment check covers both food and water easily.
You can literally do deliveries and make hundreds per delivery w absolutely no cost, i think you were really unlucky with mining though. Also idk how you managed to use nearly a full tank for a mining run, you dont have to drive that far at all.



"Now I know this is a lot of thought and possibly unnecessary since there is a lot of questionable loss when moving things from IRL to RP, But It was an ATV that I refueled...average size gas tank on an atv is 4.50-4.75gallons. Lets say 5 gallons to be easy...that gas trip was $27.80 per gallon of gas IRL...food for thought."

player owned gas stations costs less. im not sure if vehicles have different sized fuel tanks tho. Why would you do a mining job with an atv tho? obviously you wont make much money w that. Economy also isnt excact to real life, you get much more but some things can cost more, gas isnt very expensive but i see how it seems bad for such a small vehicle which irl doesnt use a lot of fuel ig.


"This past almost week nothing I wanted to buy was stocked, and I have been running trains on stocking jobs...which is also only possible if the owner actually sets up the deliveries...so OOC I can be like hell yeah imma buy a bat today, and IC cant do shit after searching 4 stores in the bat department. All because someone who RP owns a shop decided to stay in the living room and get belted by their stepdad for eating Cheeto's on the couch again."

cringe toxicity. waaaa gamers wont fully stock everything in their stores waaa

most people have guns stocked up in their store, at least a few. The melee weapons sell for way less profit and customers buy way less of them compared to guns. so gun store owners probably haven't focused on that yet, same goes for the gun spray/skin, as it's very expensive and very few people would buy them right now. There's still a lot of melee weapons you can buy though, is it really that big of a deal that you have to get a knife or hammer instead of a bat? lol.
As for the delivery jobs, I can always find some, there's a lot of people who have stores and most of them have jobs set up almost all the time.


"Tweet or Yellow pages the owner saying to stock up or that you want/need something"
^That for me anyway, is a little to OOC. I would be basically bitching to someone OOC through a ruse of a tweet/YP IC that the store doesnt have what I want come stock it....Maybe that doesn't seem phony/ooc/or a scummy loophole to some but that breaks immersion to me at minimum.
^^Also, You have to pray they even in the city to hear you're complaint.

yeah, you can just click on the owner's yellow page ad and send them a message from there, they don't have to be online as they will see it when they log in. it's not OOC at all, not sure why you think that.
You can also leave a /scene that deletes itself after 12h or w/e outside their store asking em to stock up on items or specific items. (as a sticky note) i don't see how messaging someone asking em to stock up their store more breaks your immersion.



^^^Also my feels on events etc. I seek active organic roleplay where no one knows how the nights going to go - over perfectly planned out scripted scenarios.

Most if not all events are not perfectly planned, the idea is there and people show up, what happens after is not scripted at all. Nobody knows how its going to go, just how its going to start.



No one should be a millionaire within a month or even two, or AT ALL really...Unless that fits your characters story and you're willing to do that grind.
"However, Runnin' around town pumping cash out of 50 jobs that doesn't really fit my character...Wasn't there a rule back in the day? or was that a different server? You're character shouldn't have too many hats. Your crim cant be a crim, cop, gang leader, fireman, mail delivery driver, furniture store employee and a underpass bum... that's why servers have character slots."

It's just some quick side jobs for extra cash, not that deep, just because you do 4 deliveries doesn't mean you are a full-time delivery driver, these are jobs for some quick cash, not whitelisted RP jobs. not the same things at all. Most people do the reg jobs for quick cash, stuff such as "crim, cop, gang leader, fireman" are all RP jobs/playstyles.
Also, i don't think anyone is close to being a millionaire, and it's been like a month. Those who have the most money also usually stick to one or two things, they don't run around doing every single job.


realistically...Would you ride a public bus operated by a M.C. Gang member who also part time uber drives, and you've spotted taking out your trash? even if you would, IRL...that's too many things for one individual realistically.

yeah i dont give a **** what my bus driver does tbh.
IRL it would be too many things to handle yes, but you dont do 9-5s in rp, its not supposed to be superrealism

So for my character to be expected to be a bus driver, mine, run gun store deliveries, stock shelves just to make a living... it really taints the immersion of your particular character and their characteristics and what they would actually do in life - if you stick to the job(s) that fit your character....you make zero money without breaking character or immersion by doing "whatever you can to make money" I.E.: every job available.

You don't have to though, since the wipe I've done barely any reg civ jobs at all, I was a criminal so I did crim stuff until the risk was high and other RP reasons made me lay low on crime, so I invested in a gun store, now I do that, I do 1 job and still make more than enough money. you also don't need a ton of money, you can get a nice car or whatever you want in a few weeks just by voting.
If your character is a crim you can 100% make a lot of money by only doing crim stuff/jobs.
If your character is a civ you can also make a lot of money by doing reg jobs, or especially?whitelisted rp jobs. (idk excact payouts for the whitelisted jobs)


In a server thats full 24hrs a day via players in various timezones - it completely justifies having to have an actual player run certain businesses - say, selling a car to you at pdm. There is fat room for RP there! 100% - but in a server that does not have 24hr max capacity - it generally sucks to get on to a dead city and you cant do anything car wise. Its very obvious that if you want to get something done you can't necessarily play "when you want" - you have to play when you know people are on...which is kinda wack.

You don't need a car dealer to buy a car, getting one can get you a car for cheaper/better deals though. You need a mechanic to modify your car as of now though. if you mean the stores and gas stations as well that's not really an interactive job where you have to buy it from a literal player, more like stocking it up every once in a while n people coming there to buy for cheaper.



If the server did what made sense for the server and not what other servers are doing (because it works for them) this server would be better off.

at least 8-10 hrs out of the day there isn't anything going on, or to do because its heavily reliant on the server having bodies in it - "because that's what other servers do" - This server doesn't have the player count round the clock to pull that off.

agreed, but it'll be heavily reliant on players anyway, most stuff also isn't made because other servers are doing it, from what ive seen.


its unwise to operate that way and expect to gain new players.
this isn't a lan party, people from all time zones and work schedules play 5M. We cant pull in anyone who plays outside of this servers "rush hour" because once the body count leaves the server so do all the mechanics and activities.

NA server. it'll be very hard to get pop during non-active timezones unless a large group of players from that timezone starts playing. im not sure if the server has ever had a good EU timezone population, kinda hard to change.


For someone like me who loves petty crime.
when the server is dead
you lose:
producing drugs
breaking down drugs
(^for the record i think cops should be on for these activities^)
Selling drugs
no heists
no house robberies
buying or even browsing cars
blah blah blah...
sooooo...it basically turns your crim into a law abiding citizen ...which if you're not choosing to play as...is frustrating.
Sure, you can be a crim asshole and trash talk or get into a shootout but...that's stale.


Yeah genuinely you wont be able to do a lot of crim stuff when theres low pop as low pop means low cop. All/most crime pay higher but has a risk, thats how its always worked. i dont think any good paying crime should be available without cops, house robberies are fine though, theyre kinda petty crimes.

heists r definitely not petty crimes tho.
Most of the time that there's a decent amount of people on, there will be cops on, so you usually aren't limited by that. If there are no cops on you can still develop your RP relationships with other criminals, or players, you dont need to be doing crimjobs 24/7 to be a crim. Idk why youd say trash talking and shootouts are the only crim rp you can do without cops.




Imagine for those that don't play crims but cops.
If for a good portion of the night you
were not able to access your mdt
were not able to send people to jail when you arrest them.
your cuffs don't work

whatever else is "essential" to cop RP.

and when mentioning that
you get told to just go RP anyway.

like, how tf you do that?


MDT is to enhance rp n shit
Cuffing is also kinda essential to RP.
sending people to jail is also kinda needed to be a proper cop.

These are all rp enhancing scripts/abilities, not jobs w payouts. The crime jobs you were referencing to all have payouts based on risk/having risk.

 

[LeafParker5]

Really missed the forest for the trees on some of what I was talking about.
But, that's cool, really couldn't care less to get into detail over forum posts back and forth. Just voicing my concerns on the topic lol.

 

[Rekty]

Really missed the forest for the trees on some of what I was talking about.
But, that's cool, really couldn't care less to get into detail over forum posts back and forth. Just voicing my concerns on the topic lol.

who says “missed the forest for the trees” bruh

It is an economy discussion thread, point is to discuss.

 

[EchoFX]

Really missed the forest for the trees on some of what I was talking about.
But, that's cool, really couldn't care less to get into detail over forum posts back and forth. Just voicing my concerns on the topic lol.

I don't know, man... Rekty actually provided really good feedback to all your concerns.

He even admitted to some things he's not even sure of, like gas tank sizes:

Currently, each vehicle does not have a value for the size of the gas tank. You may of noticed when you filled up that ATV, it used a % of 100. (100%)

So unfortunately, what has ended up happening is if your tank is completely empty, you would need to fill it 100% which ends up being "100 gallons."

Now obviously there's isn't a car or ATV in the world that has that big of a tank - so to fix this issue, we modified how long it takes for a vehicle to consume gas. You will notice gas lasts A LOT longer than it did in the old server because it can cost upwards of $200 to completely fill a vehicle. This isn't a perfect system and hopefully down the line we can actually designate different gas tank sizes but that's just not a priority right now.

Why you decided to use an ATV to do mining is beyond me. That makes no sense. Why you decided to fill up a stolen vehicle with gas is also beyond me and once again, makes no sense.

There are cheap vehicles, as Rekty mentioned and you don't need a Salesperson to buy one anymore.

The City is still very new. It still needs to progress and get to a place that you can legitimately compare it to other cities that are fully established. Everyone needs to give the city time to progress to a point where all these wonderful things exist. People need to be working on their character's story and building up their character to a point that makes sense for them to actually be this "criminal mastermind"

Either way, Rekty gave you some great feedback and is also one of our most active members who participates in both grinding out jobs and being a part of as much roleplay as he can when people are around. He's also from the EU timezone and understands the lack of players when he's usually around but he works with what he's got and still puts in 100% effort while he's in the city.

So, he definitely didn't "missed the forest for the trees" at all. Actually, he's someone who has expressed very similar concerns to you in the past and the development team has worked with members with these concerns to help fix them. Ultimately, it's impossible to make everyone happy and it's impossible to get everything fully operational and fixed up within a week.

Personally, I don't grind at all. I still own a car and a motorcycle. I highly suggest you vote for the server on tracky using the API Steam Vote and type /checkvote every 24 hours for that gucci $1000. And I know you have told me in a DM before that "it's immersion breaking for you" but hey, that's the solution to not have to grind endlessly - so, take it or leave it. You want to make it harder for yourself? Don't claim the vote reward.

 

[LeafParker5]

This is how much energy im going to give to this responce.
since i don't really care this way or that way.
already spent a year voicing concerns...not doing that again lol.

"MDT is to enhance rp n shit
Cuffing is also kinda essential to RP.
sending people to jail is also kinda needed to be a proper cop.

These are all rp enhancing scripts/abilities, not jobs w payouts. The crime jobs you were referencing to all have payouts based on risk/having risk."

^This right here for example is missing the forest for the trees ( and **** you buddy im 31 and i say that phrase lol)
I know these things you stated above are not Jobs/Sources of money for police. My point was they are essential to CopRP it would be very clunky and awkward to Properly cop RP and feel like you are really a cop without those things.

Criminals have those things as well...some just happen to make money...but some don't necessarily.
- - - - - - - - -

Also to solve the riddle this has become, Why did I use a Quad to mine?
Simple. I wasn't going to the mining location to make bank. I was RPing. Since you don't have to go searching for mining location as its displayed on the map, I knew it was going to be rough terrain, so instead of jacking a locals sultan or some street car to yeet it through mountains, I took a quad - just to see what that job was actually like (OOC).

This is also why I went to the gas station in the first place. I've been playing 5M for long enough on a few well known servers - you think "just steal another car" didn't pop into my head? I wanted to see how this servers gas stations work/if anything has changed in the gas department since I last played in eGO. So I filled it. Think its a bit much $ wise...but again IMO. Also not a fan of being stuck in place while you fill - but i guess this isnt a server with high enough crime to have to worry about being rolled up on while getting gas, and thats fine.

People who own stores should have atleast one of everything in stock (on items the script works for, I know gun spray isnt fully ready yet). Because after going to 3-4 stores and everyone only has knives and pistols its like...ok...i get it. Sure maybe there is no demand for bats etc. But Supply and demand go hand in hand. You create a demand by having the supply...Also rumor has it no one cares to actually RP as a store owner and do all that store owner RP that is def set up for you...they want to sell what they know people buy and then flip the store for more than they bought it for...there is no interest in actually being a store owner or living out that RP - it's again a cash grab (for some).

From an RP perspective I'd run a train on stocking shit...from a business RP sense that would be fun, be a well stocked, steady supply for the city.

Imagine going to 7-11 IRL and they were like yeah we only have snicker bars and slushies....no one ever wants the other shit so...this is all we sell. LOL

You can buy cars without a player to sell them to you...if you want whats on the store floor...if there is a way to actually browse all vehicles without another player please let me know.

24hr scripts on a server that's not populated 24hrs.

again,
just testing out the server and playing around...
I'm not invested in how well it runs.

just pointing out my unpopular opinions and that the server had a pop. issue years ago, still does now, and prolly will next year.

I try to bring up possible reasons why and I get hit with 1,000 voices saying I'm wrong and everything's okay.

is what it is

 

[Rekty]

LeafParker5


^This right here for example is missing the forest for the trees ( and **** you buddy im 31 and i say that phrase lol)
I know these things you stated above are not Jobs/Sources of money for police. My point was they are essential to CopRP it would be very clunky and awkward to Properly cop RP and feel like you are really a cop without those things.

Criminals have those things as well...some just happen to make money...but some don't necessarily.

Everything crim that you were referring to does make money, also i think selling drugs will be changed to no coplimit soon, so youll be able to do that ig? i dont think the jobs are nearly the same as mdt/cuffing/jail.those 3 are RP, while the jobs being available without cops wouldnt be much rp.



Also to solve the riddle this has become, Why did I use a Quad to mine?
Simple. I wasn't going to the mining location to make bank. I was RPing. Since you don't have to go searching for mining location as its displayed on the map, I knew it was going to be rough terrain, so instead of jacking a locals sultan or some street car to yeet it through mountains, I took a quad - just to see what that job was actually like (OOC).

RP wise youd bring a truck or something with a lot of storage, wouldn't make sense to bring a quadbike and put a bunch of rocks in your bag if trying to check the job out. ATV doesn't really make sense to me for the mining job.


This is also why I went to the gas station in the first place. I've been playing 5M for long enough on a few well known servers - you think "just steal another car" didn't pop into my head? I wanted to see how this servers gas stations work/if anything has changed in the gas department since I last played in eGO. So I filled it. Think its a bit much $ wise...but again IMO. Also not a fan of being stuck in place while you fill - but i guess this isnt a server with high enough crime to have to worry about being rolled up on while getting gas, and thats fine.

Gas is expensive but lasts for a very long time so i think its fair. dk abt the whole being stuck in animation think, could be kinda annoying i guess.



People who own stores should have atleast one of everything in stock (on items the script works for, I know gun spray isnt fully ready yet). Because after going to 3-4 stores and everyone only has knives and pistols its like...ok...i get it. Sure maybe there is no demand for bats etc. But Supply and demand go hand in hand. You create a demand by having the supply...Also rumor has it no one cares to actually RP as a store owner and do all that store owner RP that is def set up for you...they want to sell what they know people buy and then flip the store for more than they bought it for...there is no interest in actually being a store owner or living out that RP - it's again a cash grab (for some).

From an RP perspective I'd run a train on stocking shit...from a business RP sense that would be fun, be a well stocked, steady supply for the city.

Extremely boring sitting at your store for many hours as a "cashier" waiting for people to show up. People definitely do plenty of store stuff and stock their store up a lot (or pay people to do so, either is fine) I'm sure soon that most stores will start stocking up on the items that people don't usually buy, but it costs money, and time. Personally I've done tons of imports/exports, set up a bunch of jobs for people that pay well compared to most civ jobs. Advertised both my store and the guns, but my store is in a less active area, so it wouldn't make sense for me to sit there all day waiting for customers.

btw if you don't have enough stock/variety store will be taken away from you in like 2w, so I don't think people only have guns and knives, or at least they won't.



You can buy cars without a player to sell them to you...if you want whats on the store floor...if there is a way to actually browse all vehicles without another player please let me know.

It's RP, there are a few very active dealers now so shouldn't be a problem getting in contact with one. i dont see a problem with needing a dealer on to rotate out the cars, would be boring if no rp was involved at all, tbf this is an rp server.


just pointing out my unpopular opinions and that the server had a pop. issue years ago, still does now, and prolly will next year.

IMO 30+ people on most days isn't really a popularity issue, pop during other time zones kinda is though, but that's very hard to change.




Maybe you missed the fish in the ocean with this one

 

[LeafParker5]

Sorry for some reason my bold is stuck...bare with me on that.​

--------------------​

​

Everything crim that you were referring to does make money, also i think selling drugs will be changed to no coplimit soon, so youll be able to do that ig? i dont think the jobs are nearly the same as mdt/cuffing/jail.those 3 are RP, while the jobs being available without cops wouldnt be much rp.​

^your really over thinking this one. Obv those police things i mentioned are for RP purposes and essential / needed. My point was crim has things that are needed to maintain that title as well...if i started a character right now and chose to play a late late time slot because that's what works best for my IRL lifestyle...I couldn't do nearly anything crim wise because the server is asleep and as a new player could easily be swayed to a server that allows me to do the crim things I want to do at this particular time. Whether its because they don't have cop limits or because they have enough cops 24hr. either way. The Crim RP isn't bottle necked because most the server pop has a curfew.​

^^Processing drugs doesn't make immediate money. Yeah, It def sets you up to make money if you bag your drugs overnight and sling in the morning when cops are around...​

Not to sure on how drugs work in 2.0 since I have no first hand experience with that yet, so don't over think this example...​

If I had a brick of coke in my house and baggies in my house​

Why do cops need to be active for me to break it into baggies, to prepare to sell the next day?​

(again idk if its like NP and other places or not, but hopefully you see what im trying to say).​

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RP wise youd bring a truck or something with a lot of storage, wouldn't make sense to bring a quadbike and put a bunch of rocks in your bag if trying to check the job out. ATV doesn't really make sense to me for the mining job.​

^yeah I guess on this one you didn't understand why I put OOC at the end of my statement. I wasn't going to Mine to Work it O.D. or clearly I would have gone prepared with a diesel ass ride. I went to check OOC how it worked to see if it was worth bringing a truck etc. ​

But to milk the RP out of it as much as possible I decided to take the Quad. ​

Honestly blows my mind how little sense this makes to everyone whose mentioned it. If right now I heard of a place in the mountains I could possibly do something cool at and I don't know if I actually want to do it, But its at least worth checking into... I couldn't write a better opportunity to take a quad roaring through the mountains on an exploratory journey where at the very least I'll mud up the quad and crack a few beers in the mountains...and maybe...just maybe...discover that a mine shaft does exist and is totally worth it and would come back with a proper mining whip.​

You're right. Makes no sense at all for a man to use a quad to explore the mountain side in hopes to find the mine shaft that may or may not be lucrative BUT at the very least enjoy the day tearing mountain ass ATV style.​

^^is this literally not why people buy 4wheelers? or am I mistaken?​

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Gas is expensive but lasts for a very long time so i think its fair. dk abt the whole being stuck in animation think, could be kinda annoying i guess.​

^Being stuck in animation is only disruptive to RP if you get rolled up on at gas stations which doesn't feel like an issue that happens here so It doesn't really matter - just something I noticed that I could live without - But is "nit-picky". The price of gas is fine since it lasts along time. I guess that's a fair trade. I would rather have to get gas more often and it be in the realm of realistically priced. In a lot of ways I feel like the server is over compensating for a lot of old old server issues/complaints. I remember when they took getting gas completely out. which was beyond dumb. I like having to get gas lol.​

So...Having gas be hella expensive, but last longer is way better than no gas system at all I just hope it gets worked out to something that makes a bit more sense down the line.​

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Extremely boring sitting at your store for many hours as a "cashier" waiting for people to show up. People definitely do plenty of store stuff and stock their store up a lot (or pay people to do so, either is fine) I'm sure soon that most stores will start stocking up on the items that people don't usually buy, but it costs money, and time. Personally I've done tons of imports/exports, set up a bunch of jobs for people that pay well compared to most civ jobs. Advertised both my store and the guns, but my store is in a less active area, so it wouldn't make sense for me to sit there all day waiting for customers.​

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btw if you don't have enough stock/variety store will be taken away from you in like 2w, so I don't think people only have guns and knives, or at least they won't.​

^tell me about it. I ran a tavern and I had to bitch at my people to run it, which was standing inside hoping for people to come by. One of my people also owned a gun store before that was even a thing you could do. I know all about standing around. I'm not exactly advocating for standing in your store 24/7...But there is little to no sign of ownership to the stores...they all look the same(except the lost gas station...I peeped that, Pretty dope) and all have shit stock... would be nice to have some unprovoked owner interaction and a decent stock of items, but I'm not going to tell other people how to play.​

and I know allllll about supply and demand and the Risks/Rewards of owning a business...It sucks, You're going to lose money sometimes...​

^^just wished people really took the initiative with the shop owner RP and ran with it, it just seems like a cheap system at the moment AND you dodged the store flipping for profit part of what I said lol.​

^^^Having said that the stores from a shopper perspective are nice - with the menus and such.​

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It's RP, there are a few very active dealers now so shouldn't be a problem getting in contact with one. i dont see a problem with needing a dealer on to rotate out the cars, would be boring if no rp was involved at all, tbf this is an rp server.​

^I Agree 100% I have no issue with needing a dealer to rotate and sell cars.​

It would be complete garbage without an employee to show you what's up and have that interaction. This interaction is scarce during times I play. So becomes "let me hop on cause I know there's a dealer" vs Play when I want to Play. Which is unfortunate but is what it is. Just got catch a dealer with no bedtime sometime.​

^^I don't think its too unfathomable to not need a dealer to just browse vehicles. Like, Fine if I have to wait for a dealer to make the sale - and get the better price - I'll hold out and wait for that. HOWEVER I don't think its too unrealistic to browse cars without a dealer present. What if you want to just browse cars to find what you like, so you can gauge how much money you gotta save up?
^^^I don't find that to unrealistic personally...dealerships have brochures/websites/etc. that display their selection.

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IMO 30+ people on most days isn't really a popularity issue, pop during other time zones kinda is though, but that's very hard to change.​

^I'm use to 75+ daily rolling average. BUT I agree with you 30 active isn't a massive issue.
But I don't play those hours (like yourself) So Its a pop issue because the server is stuck on a East Coast 9year old's schedule outside of the prime time.
^^Which to your point makes it hard(er) to gain more players to play those slots...
and you know what makes that harder also? When you're a crim and 60% of your RP isn't an option 2/3rds of the day.

Just wish there was more 24hr Roleplay and less VRChat.
Playing the server pasted 10/11pm most days is like watching you're favorite R rated action movie on cable television mid-day = All the good parts are removed.

 

[Rekty]

^your really over thinking this one. Obv those police things i mentioned are for RP purposes and essential / needed. My point was crim has things that are needed to maintain that title as well...if i started a character right now and chose to play a late late time slot because that's what works best for my IRL lifestyle...I couldn't do nearly anything crim wise because the server is asleep and as a new player could easily be swayed to a server that allows me to do the crim things I want to do at this particular time. Whether its because they don't have cop limits or because they have enough cops 24hr. either way. The Crim RP isn't bottle necked because most the server pop has a curfew.​

^^Processing drugs doesn't make immediate money. Yeah, It def sets you up to make money if you bag your drugs overnight and sling in the morning when cops are around...​

Not to sure on how drugs work in 2.0 since I have no first hand experience with that yet, so don't over think this example...​

If I had a brick of coke in my house and baggies in my house​

Why do cops need to be active for me to break it into baggies, to prepare to sell the next day?​

(again idk if its like NP and other places or not, but hopefully you see what im trying to say).​

y dafak this bold wont go off

You can process drugs w/out cops, and as i said im p sure youll be able to sell aswell, just not collect.
i agree that needing coplimit for all this stuff can be annoying depending on when you play, but youve gotta look at the economy side of things aswell. especially cause this economy is pretty "hardcore" compared to previous ones. Drugs make quite a lot more money than legal jobs in my experience, so if they had no limit to anything drugs then there would just be a bunch of people that abused that and logged on to grind during dead-times for much more profit and absolutely no risk.

Some crim stuff will obviously have to be cop limited though, as they are high risk high reward, drugs are more medium/low risk if you do it properly, and its a multi-process thing, so you cant do it all w/out any risk as it will still require cops to be able to get the bricks themselves.

^Being stuck in animation is only disruptive to RP if you get rolled up on at gas stations which doesn't feel like an issue that happens here so It doesn't really matter - just something I noticed that I could live without - But is "nit-picky". The price of gas is fine since it lasts along time. I guess that's a fair trade. I would rather have to get gas more often and it be in the realm of realistically priced. In a lot of ways I feel like the server is over compensating for a lot of old old server issues/complaints. I remember when they took getting gas completely out. which was beyond dumb. I like having to get gas lol.​

So...Having gas be hella expensive, but last longer is way better than no gas system at all I just hope it gets worked out to something that makes a bit more sense down the line.​

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agree on the animation thing, would nice to have a way to cancel it.
gas is just prefference/opinions ig, i dont really mind either so i dont wanna say much on that.

^tell me about it. I ran a tavern and I had to bitch at my people to run it, which was standing inside hoping for people to come by. One of my people also owned a gun store before that was even a thing you could do. I know all about standing around. I'm not exactly advocating for standing in your store 24/7...But there is little to no sign of ownership to the stores...they all look the same(except the lost gas station...I peeped that, Pretty dope) and all have shit stock... would be nice to have some unprovoked owner interaction and a decent stock of items, but I'm not going to tell other people how to play.​

and I know allllll about supply and demand and the Risks/Rewards of owning a business...It sucks, You're going to lose money sometimes...​

^^just wished people really took the initiative with the shop owner RP and ran with it, it just seems like a cheap system at the moment AND you dodged the store flipping for profit part of what I said lol.​

^^^Having said that the stores from a shopper perspective are nice - with the menus and such.​

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i havent heard of any store flipping yet, theres still a bunch of stores and gas stations that arent bought, think there should be a few gun stores aswell, that might be a thing that people do in the future though.

stock can be a problem, i cant really say anything for others but ill try stocking up on w/e i can (other than the gun sprays, theyre hella expensive and i doubt anyone even wanna buy them)

It would be complete garbage without an employee to show you what's up and have that interaction. This interaction is scarce during times I play. So becomes "let me hop on cause I know there's a dealer" vs Play when I want to Play. Which is unfortunate but is what it is. Just got catch a dealer with no bedtime sometime.​

^^I don't think its too unfathomable to not need a dealer to just browse vehicles. Like, Fine if I have to wait for a dealer to make the sale - and get the better price - I'll hold out and wait for that. HOWEVER I don't think its too unrealistic to browse cars without a dealer present. What if you want to just browse cars to find what you like, so you can gauge how much money you gotta save up?
^^^I don't find that to unrealistic personally...dealerships have brochures/websites/etc. that display their selection.

i agree that browsing vehicles is a bit eh right now, hoping we'll make some magazines/whatever in the future for browsing cars. atm there is kinda low variety/selection or whatever you wanna call it, so im not sure if theres a point in making that just yet. Would definitely be nice to have in the future though

not sure if the current vehicle selling script would allow for civs to browse through cars tho.

IMO 30+ people on most days isn't really a popularity issue, pop during other time zones kinda is though, but that's very hard to change.​

^I'm use to 75+ daily rolling average. BUT I agree with you 30 active isn't a massive issue.
But I don't play those hours (like yourself) So Its a pop issue because the server is stuck on a East Coast 9year old's schedule outside of the prime time.
^^Which to your point makes it hard(er) to gain more players to play those slots...
and you know what makes that harder also? When you're a crim and 60% of your RP isn't an option 2/3rds of the day.

Just wish there was more 24hr Roleplay and less VRChat.
Playing the server pasted 10/11pm most days is like watching you're favorite R rated action movie on cable television mid-day = All the good parts are removed.

Yeah, the server is usually the most active between 5 PM? EST till midnight (prime time between 9-12 ig) Regarding the crim stuff being removed (i assume you're referencing to when there's no cops) it can be annoying and imo changed, maybe removed for some petty crimes like house robberies. The drug limit is being changed i think. not sure about the vehicle theft job but I don't think it would be beneficial to remove cop-limit for bank trucks, store robberies, and other med/high risk crimjobs.

would be weird if all cop limits were removed tho, as it would be unbalanced + wouldn't make sense ic as everyone would be an amazing criminal with great success rate on everything.

 

[LeafParker5]

Agreed.

 

[Kaden]

2: A Perfect Formula is Created not Copied
I think this should be addressed and is the actual issue.
Everyone wants the server to operate like other servers, or have certain things like other servers, or have certain things function like other servers...

This cripples this server.
Here's my logic on that.

Didn't read through all of it, but I love this point. It makes me cringe when people say "x server has this, so we should do it as well"

Quit comparing our servers to others. We're not and don't need to be like every other server out there.

 

[jeremy_duck]

Didn't read through all of it, but I love this point. It makes me cringe when people say "x server has this, so we should do it as well"

Quit comparing our servers to others. We're not and don't need to be like every other server out there.

+600,000,000 BIG SAME BRO.

 

[Rekty]

Feel like more stuff to work towards would boost interest for a lot of ppl