BlackMesa respawn waves?

[TheZaw]

I thought it would be nice to have respawn waves in black mesa (like a 5-8 second respawn time) to add more teamplay and less solo artists who make blackmesa last 3 hours :<D. I know it's all up to our go- err mapmaker dragonhill to implement respawn waves, but what do you guys think about adding waves? Who knows...mabye we can puppy-eyes our way into making dragon add them =D!

 

[NCA]

I think this article in the Team Fortress blog is relevant:

How do respawn waves work? Is my respawn time affected by my performance? Why do they exist at all?

Respawn waves occur on regular intervals, based on the map settings. Most of our maps use a 10 second respawn wave time. That 10 seconds is then modified by the map state, generally reduced for the team that controls the most capture points. Each team's respawn wave time is then scaled down if the team has less than 8 players in it, to a minimum of 5 seconds if team has 3 or less players in it. When you die, you are assigned to the respawn wave after the next one. So if the respawn wave time is currently 10 seconds for your team, you'll respawn somewhere between 10 and 20 seconds from your death. Your individual performance doesn't affect your respawn time in any way.

We found respawn waves were a good solution to several problems.

* They provide a reward for the team that's doing well, in that if they wipe out a significant amount of the enemy team they're rewarded with a short grace period in which they can achieve objectives. Without them, we found teams felt like they'd been penalized when they cleared the enemy off the last capture point, only to have them all return immediately.

* They group respawning players together into squads, increasing the chances of strangers working together, or at the very least, moving to the frontline while maintaining some proximity to one another. Strangers aren't pushed together into groups when everyone respawns instantly, and we've seen that proximity to team mates is a fundamental requirement for impromptu teamwork.

* They provide some ebb & flow in the pacing of the battle. Without some cooldown inbetween the moments of intense combat at the frontline, many players felt fatigued much more quickly. In particular, some attack/defense maps feel almost completely static without respawn waves. That lack of progress, in either direction, was a big factor in players finding the gameplay monotonous.

* The spectator camera seen while waiting to respawn gives players some time to observe their team mates. This provides a minor help to teamwork, allowing players to see what other members of their team are up to. More importantly, we've seen that new players learn a lot of advanced techniques by spectating better players. This is one of the reasons why the spectator camera tries to find a team mate who's playing the same class as you.

Obviously, there are other solutions to these problems, but respawn waves do a good job across the board.

 

[I-Die-Often]

BM doesn't lose players because it takes a long time... people stick around longer than they should (many talk about needing to go) because the game play is fast and there is a lot of excitement in the map. Lengthening the respawn time will only decrease this agrressive game play and allow more steam rolling.

A lone wolf of a player will always be that.... longer respawn times will not suddenly make them play with a team. A lone wolf also will not win or lose a match in Mesa... the map is too big and the capture points timed too well.

 

[Bugen]

I rarely see anyone leave a game because of spawn time anymore. On blackmesa I usually see people leaving because they either have to go or they are fed up with certain people spawn camping all the time (yes this is a problem). I'm hoping dragon's new version will take care of the second reason.

 

[TheZaw]

I'm not talking about 20 second respawn, but mabye 8 seconds? Steamrolling won't happen as much because the respawn waves force team play.

 

[holy poop godly]

Yeah but in 8 seconds the whole team can come outa no where and steamroll

 

[Davincivirus]

The location of the last cap makes it possible to allow for instant respawn/waves, because without that someone would spawn camp once and the map basically would be over. Wait still you see the new map it has major improvements on it that eliminate some of the problems people are complaining about.

 

[Iceman]

Yea, think about a longer respawn wave. I come to camp spawn, like I do, yes I'll admit it, and then rack up on a few kills, and now instead of waiting 2 seconds to respawn twice you would wait 16 :-/

 

[Sloppie]

It wouldn't be the same without the spawncamping....

How else am i going to get an assist on the spy?

 

[Phoenixxx Wright]

BM needs waves, yes.

I'd say 5-8 at start. When YOU own A, 3-6 seconds, when you own the enemy's L/C, instant. If you only own B/K, also instant.

That would even it out, I think.

 

[I-Die-Often]

It wouldn't be the same without the spawncamping....

How else am i going to get an assist on the spy?

Yea, think about a longer respawn wave. I come to camp spawn, like I do, yes I'll admit it, and then rack up on a few kills, and now instead of waiting 2 seconds to respawn twice you would wait 16 :-/

I still do not understand why people STILL whine about camping... it is PART OF THE GAME... like it or not... entire classes are designed for camping (called defensive players)... engineers, heavies, and yes, even the demoman (and I know a few people like to complain about my use of the demo's defensive nature... LoL)... there is NOTHING wrong with or rule breaking about spawn camping or camping anywhere (except spawn camping in Orange_X3).

Meh... I will go with Zaw... if it were a WAVE respawn where the losing team ot shorter spawn times, yeah it would be beneficial... and none of that 20 second stuff!!! That make me sad to see a 20 second respawn anywhere... LoL... I do still like it just the way it is... nothing wrong with a GOOD long round... :-D

 

[{SOAP}Pm@c]

I thought it would be nice to have respawn waves in black mesa (like a 5-8 second respawn time) to add more teamplay and less solo artists who make blackmesa last 3 hours :<D. I know it's all up to our go- err mapmaker dragonhill to implement respawn waves, but what do you guys think about adding waves? Who knows...mabye we can puppy-eyes our way into making dragon add them =D!

Respawn waves would be terrible imo

Once a team starts camping spawn, and making spawns 5-8 seconds will only guarantee that spawn camping = instant win..

I prefer to have a chance to defend the last point if my team is being spawn camped.

and for hte record i-die-often, im not complaining about spawn camping, go ahead and camp all you want, i would just like to have more than one attempt to make it out of spawn before your team wins..

 

[CharlieMac]

I agree with long respawn times it makes a map as big as BM not as fun...

 

[Kascade]

I can understand where the complaints come from, and I understand why spawn camping is a valid tactic. Just because it can ruin a few peoples experience under constant use doesn't negate its validity.

I like TF2 because of the freedom of movement I have as most of my classes. The only problem a long duration marathon of spawn camping gives me is that my "freedom of movement" becomes 3 person wide, long hallway that one heavy or one demo turns into the ultimate easy mode death trap.

I don't mind being the target of spawn camping every now and then, but when you have people that do it every single life, and then teleporters come into play, 3 heavies, 4 medics... You try having fun when its a 20 minute marathon of camping and the only path you can take is the longest choke point. Then uber+instant respawn+teleporters = that heavy you just took out in his 450 HP + 20hp/secregen glory came back 3 seconds later. Its not really a game anymore at this point, its just meat grinder mode.

And because that scenario happened to me, now I memorize people's names so I can identify the constant spawn campers and single them out to attempt to minimize the damage they do to the team and morale...

If you want waved respawn, you can't do it on the current blackmesa. You'd have to make exiting the spawn safer like almost every valve map does. Otherwise spawn camping just becomes that much more demoralizing and effective.

The current instant respawn system makes the map a wonderful battleground in every other part of the map however. And if you took waved respawn in, the map would feel that much more empty even with 32 players.

 

[I-Die-Often]

and for hte record i-die-often, im not complaining about spawn camping, go ahead and camp all you want, i would just like to have more than one attempt to make it out of spawn before your team wins..

I understand... I want the respawn wave to go the opposite way... giving the losing team an advantage because of the ease of spawn camp... LoL...

you still have got to show me that move!

 

[TheZaw]

Spawn camping is irrelivent. Dragon promised/told that spawn camping would be much harder in the newer versions. Just incase though, i bought a revolver..kidding..kidding...

Just want you to know, i'd loose a lot of my killing power if wave respawn came into play. My whole spy tactics revolve around NO wave respawn on blackmesa. I just think many people's blackmesa experience would imrpove with wave respawn

 

[Dragonhill]

Wow, i had no idea the new test version of Blackmesa spurned all this thought about repawning.

i'm going to tell you my deep dark secrets

1) i hate spawn waves "IF" the fighting is fast and furious. I used to play CS and Natural selection. With those games there was another level of tactics that made spawn waves fell "ok". With mesa it's "bring the mostest to the fight the fastest".
2) since most of valves maps have waves i figured i would make mesa stand out by not doing that
3) the map IS big. Waves make that more apparent
4) it is true waves all teams to squad up but mesa was also designed for "advanced" players. Most seasoned guys link up via chat. I do need to give the rooms better descriptive look to help this. "Yo!, im in the vent near the elevator thingy next to the big fan........."

with that in mind i will be chamnging some of the exits in mesa AND adding teleporter exits at b and k for the attackers..may make that instant spawn more of a slaughter fest

~D

 

[koolaid]

thnx

 

[whohitme]

Hey Dragonhill...Love the map man, I'm on it almost all the time. I know that whatever you got cooking next will only make it even better. Thanks for the work.

 

[TheEagerBeaver]

I like Blackmesa the way it is

I don't give a lot of thought about respawn times on this map...I always have fun on it and I don't see a need to change it.

Btw...i should have a service ribbon