While I do think that team stacking stinks to the high heavens, I don't think auto-assign is going to do anything but drive people away. I can kind of see the argument from both sides because I know that typically if I get on a server and I see one of my friends, I like to try getting on their team. However, if we are completely rolling the other team I'll usually do what I can to switch over and try helping out the underdogs. Honestly, I think the only way this problem will get solved is if people are willing to sacrifice a little and say "Ok... I'm on the winning team, we're completely pwning the other guys, maybe I should switch it up and try to even things out." Unfortunately, I know a lot of people don't think like that... so the problem persists.
Auto-Assign Only!
- Thread starter DeFy
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People should be allowed to choose what team they want and what classes to play. Don't you hate it when you go to a server and your favourite class is 'full' because there is a class limit for example. Whenever that happens I just leave. If you force people to play in a certain way that they might not like then you'll drastically decrease the servers popularity.
I know exactly what you mean thought, teams on payload maps do tend to get rather unbalanced but this idea wouldn't help.
I know exactly what you mean thought, teams on payload maps do tend to get rather unbalanced but this idea wouldn't help.
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I think something that went by hlstats with team scramble would really work well because maybe it would go ok 1 team has a rank 200 and 100 but the other has a 300 and 250 then put the 200 and 250 together and the 100 and 300 together or whatever ranks r it would probely be a difficult program to work but it would be nice
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I would like to know why.
We shouldn't do anything that takes control away from the other team.
If a team is getting steamrolled, they complain and the other team is happy. If team scrambling was instated, then the steamrolled team will just be neutral and the other team will be angry because they're punished for doing well.
So, essentially, you either one happy team and one unhappy team or one blah team and one angry team. You choose.
Also, how are people knowing which team is winning or not before joining a team? I've yet to figure out how. And doesn't the servers already not allow more than one extra person on each team? So what would auto-assigning do exactly?
If a team is getting steamrolled, they complain and the other team is happy. If team scrambling was instated, then the steamrolled team will just be neutral and the other team will be angry because they're punished for doing well.
So, essentially, you either one happy team and one unhappy team or one blah team and one angry team. You choose.
Also, how are people knowing which team is winning or not before joining a team? I've yet to figure out how. And doesn't the servers already not allow more than one extra person on each team? So what would auto-assigning do exactly?
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Leadership found it was best to remove this plug in for now. It had some holes in it and was not helping matters at all. Our sys dev team always continues to improve on our plug-ins, and perhaps at some point we will have another team scramble option, but nothing in the near foreseeable future.
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As for the rest, as Captain Ashton said:
That's pretty much why we would never force players to join in one specific way. It is our policy to allow people to play the game as they see fit, assuming they are not griefing or disrupting the server.
While it can be frustrating, steam rolling is sadly just an occasional hazard of playing online games. Usually if you give it some time things will even out or people will move around because they get bored.
A couple of weeks ago I started playing on the PL server quite a bit and I noticed that the teams were often uneven. At least in my experience, the unbalanced teams weren't caused by "stacking" per se, but rather the refusal of players to play useful classes. I don't know why the PL server seems worse than the others, but it was not uncommon to have 6 snipers and 3 spies on the team, and then get destroyed by the team with a well balanced combination. I personally have no problem being on the losing team, but I can't stand when we lose because people refuse to switch classes to something that the team needs.
Like others have said, I believe that team stacking is an inevitable part of gaming. Instead of trying to fix it with different plug-ins, people in this community should focus on doing whatever they can to elevate the losing team when they are getting rolled. A lot of our more skilled players are really good at switching to the losing team, and I see it quite a bit. If you're on the losing team, check what classes are on your team, and switch to what it looks like your team needs, and don't be afraid to let the rest of your team know that you need more of X class. I think a lot of times, people will choose their favorite class without looking at how many of them are on the team, and are happy to change when they realize that the team needs something else.
Like others have said, I believe that team stacking is an inevitable part of gaming. Instead of trying to fix it with different plug-ins, people in this community should focus on doing whatever they can to elevate the losing team when they are getting rolled. A lot of our more skilled players are really good at switching to the losing team, and I see it quite a bit. If you're on the losing team, check what classes are on your team, and switch to what it looks like your team needs, and don't be afraid to let the rest of your team know that you need more of X class. I think a lot of times, people will choose their favorite class without looking at how many of them are on the team, and are happy to change when they realize that the team needs something else.
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just my two cents, when i join, i have to be defualt join the team with less people, i think someone mention that auto assign does that anyways.
if they are even sided, i usually join the objective, cause in my opinion that is the harder team, and i feel i am good enough to help make a difference on that team.
then if i see the teams are stacked, and i am on the stacked team, and i am doing well, i will try to switch to the other team to help out.
finally, when i do switch teams, there are a few things i notice. 1 there is no communication between the team. rarely am i on a team where i hear alot of my teammates are we are getting rick rolled. and finally, there might be to much of one class (like to many spies but the other team still has sentries up :/, or to many snipers and there all at the bottom of the stats page.) or there wont be enough of certain classes, like on defense, there will only be one engineer, or on offense 0 or 1 medic.
i guess the point im trying to make is if you see teams are stacked, it should be our duty as ego'ers (sp?) to switched to the unstacked team. and you dont have to be a great player to make a difference. Get the team talking to one another. maybe one of the reason the team is so bad is because it's full of newbies that don't know the game. try and point them in the right direction on what to do. i think i spend 30% of my time kindly telling medics to take the lead when they use an uber so the sentry focus's on them, or showing engineers good places to build. it's called TEAM fortress, not spy and sniper fortress.
sorry this was a long post, and was probably more like my 20 cents worth.
if they are even sided, i usually join the objective, cause in my opinion that is the harder team, and i feel i am good enough to help make a difference on that team.
then if i see the teams are stacked, and i am on the stacked team, and i am doing well, i will try to switch to the other team to help out.
finally, when i do switch teams, there are a few things i notice. 1 there is no communication between the team. rarely am i on a team where i hear alot of my teammates are we are getting rick rolled. and finally, there might be to much of one class (like to many spies but the other team still has sentries up :/, or to many snipers and there all at the bottom of the stats page.) or there wont be enough of certain classes, like on defense, there will only be one engineer, or on offense 0 or 1 medic.
i guess the point im trying to make is if you see teams are stacked, it should be our duty as ego'ers (sp?) to switched to the unstacked team. and you dont have to be a great player to make a difference. Get the team talking to one another. maybe one of the reason the team is so bad is because it's full of newbies that don't know the game. try and point them in the right direction on what to do. i think i spend 30% of my time kindly telling medics to take the lead when they use an uber so the sentry focus's on them, or showing engineers good places to build. it's called TEAM fortress, not spy and sniper fortress.
sorry this was a long post, and was probably more like my 20 cents worth.
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It looks like we have ourselves a winner. Good post, Shade.
Yeah, Cut Chem!st is right about this because auto assign randomly gives you a player so there are also a possibility that good players can be auto assigned in one team. Remember auto assign is random, you will never know who you'll get. Also shade has a very good point about what you need for the team. After all of of us eGO members have joined under an obligation: To have fun in a mature environment, while helping with the server's internal match problems and actively supporting both the clan including the forum.
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Only problem is friends can't be together
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Another thought, from a guy who switches teams to the steamroll'd team to assist.
The game is called Team Fortress 2. There isn't an I anywhere in Team Fortress 2. I've discovered, in many cases as has already been said, that the steamroll'd team is not communicating, or has an unhealthy class mix.
First key component is that Team Fortress 2 prides itself on it's voicechat and text chat options. And we have Ventrillo. So it's not like we're lacking communication channels.
Second key component is that Team Fortress 2 has 9 different classes, all of which, like the bosses on Megaman, have strengths and weaknesses against other classes. I think Sniper and Spy are so popular because (1) they have the new toys and (2) they have insta-kills. Why play Soldier where you have to learn rocket trajectories when you can just headshot the guy instead? Because snipers don't push the cart. Or if they are... they're playing their classes' weakness (without Jarate and the Huntsman).
Now. 75% of the time, when I switch classes, I discover an unhealthy mix of classes, and no team communication. The only communication going on is "OMG THIS SUX" and "Stop taking our itnel!" and "[Subject Name Here] you [suck/hack/hax]".
But the punchline is... when I try to rally the team over chat... I either get ignored or told to shut up.
"Hey, we need some medics!" "Hey, anyone want to play medic?" "Hey, I'm playing medic, anyone want to join me?" "We need more than one Uber to take out those sentries."
"Shut up!" "Who died and made you boss?" "OMG U SUX" "ADMIN [Subject Name Here] IS HACKING theres no way he could headshot me while I'm standing still."
How many times have I switched teams and been the only Engineer protecting the Intel? How many times have I begged, pleaded, for somebody to spycheck my equipment? How many times have I admonished for a medic to assist in taking down a sentry, a demo to block a hallway, a spy to actually touch the intel to keep it alive?
I'm only one player. I can only play one class at a time. And when the steamrolling gets bad, it's not because the BLU team is too good it's because the RED team sucks.
Why have I written a post like this, in a way that will make people who know me snicker that Auto's written another essay post? Because I'm trying to explain why autoscramble, votescramble, admin-totalitarian-scramble, autoassign, etc will not work.
Autoassign picks the next guy in queue and slaps him into the emptiest team. THAT'S HOW TF2 WORKS. If the teams are 15-14, I can't join the 15 team no matter how many friends are on it. I either wait for the teams to balance, or just play.
In other words, you are just as likely to get a n00b as a 1337. All Autoassign does is give an artificial limitation on how people can play the game. Same thing with class restrictions. You make people play the game with arbitrary rules, they'll go to another server. And you'll be playing Ignus Solus.
Scrambling teams usually only does a little bit of good. Because: The assumption is that BLU is winning because everyone there is a 1337, and that RED is losing because everyone (except you, naturally) is a n00b. And if only you could get a few 1337s, the game would balance.
But it's not true. I've NEVER been on a team of complete 1337s. If I was, I'd so be recording a demo for the pure epicness of it. No, what the rollin' team has is team communication. Also, like most online games, for every 1337, there are 2-3 n00bs on the team. So when you scramble... you're more likely to END UP WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF n00bs as you had before. With the downshot that YOUR TEAM STILL DOESNT HAVE LEADERSHIP. The n00bs switched over resent the loss of the mentor they had on the other side teaching them their ropes, the n00bs switched to the other team are a sudden drag on their team, and even if you DO get a 1337, they're more likely to ragequit or wait in spec than spend the precious time trying to wrestle you guys into working together.
Technological means will NOT solve these problems:
1) It's more fun to push the cart, then to try to stop it.
2) It's more fun to pwn than be pwned.
3) It's more fun to play on a team that wants to work together, than a group of lone wolves.
4) It's easier to play with people who already want to be a team, then to try to force teamplay on people who don't.
5) You can only play one class at a time, no matter how 1337 you are.
6) There are more n00bs than 1337s.
7) Random scramble is random.
8) Even HLX points don't guarantee good team play.
9) Everyone thinks that they are god in their chosen class, and that somebody ELSE should switch.
I've been on n00b teams with horrendiously low scores that have wiped the floor with "better" teams because we work together to cap the intel or push the cart... you know, the stuff that really matters. And I've been on teams with 7 people who all think that they are the bestest most leetest snipahs in the werld and everyone ELSE should class switch.
No. The correct solution is "Man up and play the game." The secondary solution is "YOU switch teams when you are winning." Runners up are "Learn the tactics of the team that wins" and "Don't think you are god in your favorite class."
And if you can't pull that, go play Counterstrike or Super Mario Brothers. A game where one man CAN shoot all the terrorists and save the princess all by themselves. Because TF2 REQUIRES a team.
The game is called Team Fortress 2. There isn't an I anywhere in Team Fortress 2. I've discovered, in many cases as has already been said, that the steamroll'd team is not communicating, or has an unhealthy class mix.
First key component is that Team Fortress 2 prides itself on it's voicechat and text chat options. And we have Ventrillo. So it's not like we're lacking communication channels.
Second key component is that Team Fortress 2 has 9 different classes, all of which, like the bosses on Megaman, have strengths and weaknesses against other classes. I think Sniper and Spy are so popular because (1) they have the new toys and (2) they have insta-kills. Why play Soldier where you have to learn rocket trajectories when you can just headshot the guy instead? Because snipers don't push the cart. Or if they are... they're playing their classes' weakness (without Jarate and the Huntsman).
Now. 75% of the time, when I switch classes, I discover an unhealthy mix of classes, and no team communication. The only communication going on is "OMG THIS SUX" and "Stop taking our itnel!" and "[Subject Name Here] you [suck/hack/hax]".
But the punchline is... when I try to rally the team over chat... I either get ignored or told to shut up.
"Hey, we need some medics!" "Hey, anyone want to play medic?" "Hey, I'm playing medic, anyone want to join me?" "We need more than one Uber to take out those sentries."
"Shut up!" "Who died and made you boss?" "OMG U SUX" "ADMIN [Subject Name Here] IS HACKING theres no way he could headshot me while I'm standing still."
How many times have I switched teams and been the only Engineer protecting the Intel? How many times have I begged, pleaded, for somebody to spycheck my equipment? How many times have I admonished for a medic to assist in taking down a sentry, a demo to block a hallway, a spy to actually touch the intel to keep it alive?
I'm only one player. I can only play one class at a time. And when the steamrolling gets bad, it's not because the BLU team is too good it's because the RED team sucks.
Why have I written a post like this, in a way that will make people who know me snicker that Auto's written another essay post? Because I'm trying to explain why autoscramble, votescramble, admin-totalitarian-scramble, autoassign, etc will not work.
Autoassign picks the next guy in queue and slaps him into the emptiest team. THAT'S HOW TF2 WORKS. If the teams are 15-14, I can't join the 15 team no matter how many friends are on it. I either wait for the teams to balance, or just play.
In other words, you are just as likely to get a n00b as a 1337. All Autoassign does is give an artificial limitation on how people can play the game. Same thing with class restrictions. You make people play the game with arbitrary rules, they'll go to another server. And you'll be playing Ignus Solus.
Scrambling teams usually only does a little bit of good. Because: The assumption is that BLU is winning because everyone there is a 1337, and that RED is losing because everyone (except you, naturally) is a n00b. And if only you could get a few 1337s, the game would balance.
But it's not true. I've NEVER been on a team of complete 1337s. If I was, I'd so be recording a demo for the pure epicness of it. No, what the rollin' team has is team communication. Also, like most online games, for every 1337, there are 2-3 n00bs on the team. So when you scramble... you're more likely to END UP WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF n00bs as you had before. With the downshot that YOUR TEAM STILL DOESNT HAVE LEADERSHIP. The n00bs switched over resent the loss of the mentor they had on the other side teaching them their ropes, the n00bs switched to the other team are a sudden drag on their team, and even if you DO get a 1337, they're more likely to ragequit or wait in spec than spend the precious time trying to wrestle you guys into working together.
Technological means will NOT solve these problems:
1) It's more fun to push the cart, then to try to stop it.
2) It's more fun to pwn than be pwned.
3) It's more fun to play on a team that wants to work together, than a group of lone wolves.
4) It's easier to play with people who already want to be a team, then to try to force teamplay on people who don't.
5) You can only play one class at a time, no matter how 1337 you are.
6) There are more n00bs than 1337s.
7) Random scramble is random.
8) Even HLX points don't guarantee good team play.
9) Everyone thinks that they are god in their chosen class, and that somebody ELSE should switch.
I've been on n00b teams with horrendiously low scores that have wiped the floor with "better" teams because we work together to cap the intel or push the cart... you know, the stuff that really matters. And I've been on teams with 7 people who all think that they are the bestest most leetest snipahs in the werld and everyone ELSE should class switch.
No. The correct solution is "Man up and play the game." The secondary solution is "YOU switch teams when you are winning." Runners up are "Learn the tactics of the team that wins" and "Don't think you are god in your favorite class."
And if you can't pull that, go play Counterstrike or Super Mario Brothers. A game where one man CAN shoot all the terrorists and save the princess all by themselves. Because TF2 REQUIRES a team.
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