T1 connection or Comcast 22/5

[dbee]

Hey everyone, would like some opinions on internet services. Right now, we are using a normal comcast 6/2 connection which works fine, but we need more for what we do. A company is trying to sell us a T1 connection which is a guaranteed 1.5 connection that includes some other features such as phone lines... $400/ month.

Comcast business class has a package that includes a 22/5 connection, 2 phone lines, and TV for $159. Is T1 all that much greater? the sales guy is trying really hard to talk us into it and gets annoyed that im a bit smarter than him at his own job. What does everyone think?

 

[chapp]

Let me tell you from experience, NOTHING is guaranteed. I can't remember how many times I've been at a client's office and they only get around 1mb/sec instead of the 1.5 they're "guaranteed" on their T1. You call the provider and there is nothing they can do. The whole "guarantee" this is just to get your confidence built up. IMO, I would go with the connection that is the most bang for your buck, which is obviously the Comcast business connection. And a T1 was fast 5 years ago, not anymore. Most residential connections are faster than a T1.

 

[aknightwhosezni]

I would NOT use cable as my primary internet connection unless it was a branch office; even then I would opt for DSL. The problem with cable is that it is not a guaranteed speed; it is Best Effort. Even though you pay for 7Mbps you may only get 75% of that or less. Very seldom will you get everything you pay for. Remember, you are having to compete with everyone else in the area that uses cable for bandwidth.

Personally, I'd look at putting in a fiber connection if it is available. Usually it cost the same as was what you'd pay for a T1 connection but there was a decent amount of up-front costs associated with preparing the router and other assorted items.

Source

Edit* also, t1 is WAY more reliable than cable.

 

[ScrappyDoo]

What are you trying to do?
Answering that will help us give advice.

And Chapped, the entire point of a true four-wire T1 is that it's guaranteed. If your client isn't getting T1 bandwidth, they should be getting credits or comps to their monthly charges. The other thing is you need to check the client's contract for demarc responsibilities.

After the demarc, your client is responsible for all issues unless they have an extended service contract with the telco. Do some line stress testing against the CSU/DSU to ensure things are OK.

 

[Ric]

Hey everyone, would like some opinions on internet services. Right now, we are using a normal comcast 6/2 connection which works fine, but we need more for what we do. A company is trying to sell us a T1 connection which is a guaranteed 1.5 connection that includes some other features such as phone lines... $400/ month.

Comcast business class has a package that includes a 22/5 connection, 2 phone lines, and TV for $159. Is T1 all that much greater? the sales guy is trying really hard to talk us into it and gets annoyed that im a bit smarter than him at his own job. What does everyone think?

If a gentleman is trying to force you into buying a produkt and he gets upset at YOU for being knowledgeable, personally I'd tell the guy to go <bannable word> himself.

T1 is supposed to be a GUARANTEED-SPEED service, if anyone does not receive full speed while paying 400 dollars a month, something is wrong.

Depending on what I do in the business will factor my decision.
1) Do I need massive speeds?
2) Do I need the phones, TV, etc?

I would go for the combo package deal from Comcast, but again, this decision solely derives from the type of business you do and the speed you need. To me, the package deal is better then the T1 right now, I believe it makes up for the lesser speeds.

 

[dbee]

Well we run at least 6 machines off of our connection , most days of the week are simulcasting online (buying vehicles online through video sale ) from auctions all over the country. We do lots of uploading such as sending rather large photo packets that are usually 100 mb uploads . The connection is great right now, but sometimes early in the morning when thousands of others are simulcasting, the faster connection will get you the bid and get you the unit. This is the main issue, we need it to be FAST no matter what. And i've never really had a problem with comcast. I just cant see paying $400 for a 1.5 connection when even my current 6 mb connection has never gone below 5 mb/s from speed tests. Actual downloading from steam, it starts off at 2 mb/s and winds down to 1 all the way through.

Fibre is unavailable ATM. DSL is a joke.

 

[Ducttape]

T1 is nice, but make sure you're getting a good one.

Is it a complete pipe? Is it on-demand? Some shady companies buy T1 lines from the pop, and break them up to resell, or sell the same line to multiple businesses at a discount and they 'share' the line. I've heard of businesses being 'unaware' of the type of line they are getting...

A T1 line is 24 channels of either 56K (D4) or 64k (B8Zs). The cheaper D4 is used primarily for telemarketing-types; they further multiplex the line down to as low as 12K - the quality sucks but you get a lot more lines out of it. If you want it for data, the B8ZS is better.

You can groom a T1 to fit your needs; that is, you could set aside 8 channels for voice to be routed to your key system or channel bank, and the other 16 can be routed to your router for data.

A T1 is also useful as a direct link between sites. If your company has multiple offices, a T1 can be used to bridge them together. This would allow you to pick up a phone in one office, press an extension, and it would ring in another office. This is useful for high volume transactions because it bypasses phone charges (like long-distance). A lot of telemarketers use this feature; they can be based in Ohio and make 24/7 long distance calls to Florida for nothing more than the price of the T1.

Also, if you need a lot of speed, ask about a T3. It's 28 T1's in a single pipe. Even if you can't get the full T3, try for a fractional T3.

 

[chapp]

This is the main issue, we need it to be FAST no matter what. And i've never really had a problem with comcast. I just cant see paying $400 for a 1.5 connection when even my current 6 mb connection has never gone below 5 mb/s from speed tests.

This is exactly what I was getting at.

He obviously needs bandwidth and in this day and age, a T1 is a waste, plain and simple. A few years ago you could have made this arguement, but not today.

$400 a month for 1.5mb/sec a is a freaking joke no matter how "technical" you look at it...

 

[aknightwhosezni]

For the last time, a T1/3 is not about the speed, rather the quality of service. Tape hit it on the head. OP wants a functional, RELIABLE connection "no matter what". a T series line will give that to him. Fiber will too. Stop thinking about the speed for the price... In a consumer situation that would matter, but for enterprise, speed is not your number one concern.

 

[chapp]

First of all, this isn't an "enterprise" environment we're talking here, it's six people....

Second, I don't care how "technical" you want to get, it's ALL about getting what you pay for. Simply put, a T1 offers NOTHING over a cable connection(that and end user will see). Sure some network admin with nothing better to do could run logs and tests and see that while a T1 may always be at 1.5mb and a cable connection may fluctuate. The bottom line is, you're going to get faster connection, period, end of story.

Comparing a $400 "dedicated" 1.5mb pipe to a $160 "non-dedicated" 22/5mb pipe is really a no brainer... And that's not even considering the FACT that not all T1's perform at the 1.5mb speed they're guaranteed to....

And don't even get me started on "reliablity". I have seen PLENTY of T1 circuits go down, for any number of reasons. People think that T1's never go down for the reason most of you are supporting it... The "reliability" factor...

Oh and lets not forget the cost of equipment for a T1 circuit... How much is a T1 card? How much is a cable modem?

 

[Ric]

I still do not agree with the 400 dollars a month for 1.5 thing, no matter how much quality you want.

That's a little expensive.

 

[aknightwhosezni]

sorry, I have to flat out disagree with you. yes, t1's go down, but 99% of the time its end user caused.... the other 1% is a cable getting cut by someone with a backhoe...

To his their own. I hope OP makes a good decision, whatever it may be, and will hopefully do more research of their own rather than taking just our advice.

 

[chapp]

Ni, by that logic, the same can be said for cable connections. 99% are user caused and 1% is someone cutting the cable. However, those aren't the only reasons why a connection goes down. The most common cause of service interruptions is the provider. If your provider has problems, goes down, whatever, your connection is going to be effected. It doesn't matter if it's a cable provider or a T1 provider. And I can speak from experience than a T1 provider is no more reliable than any other service provider, be it cable, dsl, or fiber. So that point is moot.

 

[ScrappyDoo]

Dbee,

Is the video work you're doing being done over the open Internet? Over some type of auto-related extranet VPN? Or some type of Intranet?

If this connection is solely for the purpose of connecting to the open Internet, I'd recommend going with the Comcast Business Class service. It sounds like your need for bandwidth* is greater than reliability or flexibility.

Be sure to carefully read the Comcast service guarantees and availability. For example, is that bandwidth on-demand (read: burst) or is it sustained? Do you have a bandwidth cap? (Comcast does have consumer cap limits.) If something breaks, what's the average time to repair? Do you get credits if they don't fix it within a certain time frame?

On the other hand, if you are connecting to some sort of extranet, doing any sort of IP/telephony, or plan on using traditional voice to your business, you should carefully consider the T-1. Or a fractional T-3, as Ducttape suggests.

The advantage of a carrier T-1 is not just "enterprise reliability" but its flexibility and potential for more security. If you don't need that flexibility, security, or reliability, than paying for it is a waste to your business.

As for which breaks more often: A cable line or a T-1. They all break. All the time.
If they didn't, half of my job would disappear.

But the bank (watch TV and you've seen an ad for them) which just had 300 T-1's (450+ Mbps! One T-1 at a time!) installed by my project team would say they will take their chances with T-1 lines. They replaced... wait for it... Codex modems running at 28.8 KILObit.

And I say this knowing my next project is to install business cable services for a company with about 25 locations.

Comcast is large enough that they have their own internal network infrastructure to operate as a common carrier across (most of) the country and are about as reliable, in their internal network, as any other common carrier.

It's usually the last mile which is the problem. That's why I can walk down the hall and find about $80,000 of network test equipment my tech's use to diagnose that crap.


**Scrappy Pet Peeve: Using the term "speed" when you really mean "bandwidth".

PS: Chapped, if you really have customers who are paying for a full clear channel T-1 and are not getting the bandwidth they are paying for, they should be serviced by the telco. Set up a loop and run some 3-in-24 patterns and QRSS. Make sure those run clear.

 

[pillar]

I will have to agree w/ the comcast "undedicated" part. paying $400 for 6 people is way too much overkill, no matter how much you look at it. i mean we have time warner w/ powerboost & its around $120 a month for mainly 3 computers (1 desktop, which has the server in it, 1 laptop and 1 netbook) & sometimes my sister will come in & use the internet for w/e purpose to those that have the capability of getting up to 1.5 mb. im the only 1 in the household that gets true 1.5 mb download speed (mainly cause of steam) but no other company/site can match that speed. I would highly suggest that you keep what you have until you either get way too much business for the cost to matter or get more people to where the price over people ratio evens out to make it worth upgrading. Just my 2 pennies.

 

[chapp]

PS: Chapped, if you really have customers who are paying for a full clear channel T-1 and are not getting the bandwidth they are paying for, they should be serviced by the telco. Set up a loop and run some 3-in-24 patterns and QRSS. Make sure those run clear.

Thanks for the suggestions but thankfully I don't have to worry about running traffic simulations anymore. Now I am just a Systems Admin for the 4th largest manufacturer of semiconductors(not to boast, I just want it to be clear that I don't work for some mom and pop shop).

 

[dbee]

There are other services included with that $400 plan, but nothing useful enough to us to justify the cost difference as well as the speed. Our comcast connection is sweet as it is, getting the 22/5 would make it solid. even if i was really only seeing a real 15/mbs i would be happy. I can run speed tests all day over here and never see anything less than 5 down and 1.5 up. Most of the time its in the teens, i know these speed tests dont really mean much but give us a good idea.

Got a promotion done for my home connection. comcast 6/2 for 19.99 for 6 months. WAS paying $73. SWEET.