Engi update ideas

[toastado]

Sorry I haven't been on in a while, I was vacationing and for a while afterward I just didn't have enough time to go on eGO.

Anyway, I was thinking about how they've updated every class but engineer in TF2. Why is it that they haven't updated engi? I looked on the website, but they only said the failed ideas, they didn't say any good ones. If anyone can think of something good that the engi should have (like an auto shotgun or some machine thing), and what it'll replace (if it replaces anything), please say it in the forum. Also, if you think that something someone else posted shouldn't be in the game, please quote them and say why it shouldn't. Thanks. :thumbup:

 

[crazyrockets]

Hey, toastado!

My general thinking on why they haven't updated engineer yet is it is hard to do without unbalancing the game. Recent events (cough, pyro nerf, cough) have shown valve is not against doing this, but they seem to want to avoid doing so. The shotgun is a great primary weapon for the engineer, so I would expect it to either remain the same or have a small change like a larger clip size. The pistol is a slightly weaker point, so I would expect to see something replace it. The wrench is a great melee weapon (crit-wrench of doom...), so I don't know if they will replace it, but they might do something: maybe builds quicker when whacking the building, but does less damage.

Once you get past the equipment the engineer carries, it is next to impossible to determine what valve will do. One thing that would be cool that one of the fan sites created would be a teleporter that could be placed on walls and such, allowing it to be placed out of the way. Another thing that would be possible is a 2-way tele.

There have been quite a few other threads thinking of things they could do (and shouldn't do), so I would suggest looking over them to see more ideas.

 

[Simon]

I find that the engineer's buildings are fairly powerful as is, since its very difficult to go right at a sentry and break it, unless your a heavy with a medic, and its hard even then.

I think something better than the shotgun might be nice though

 

[Kevimaster]

Pyro is not unbalanced >.>

Anyway, yeah the Engineer Update is coming, and we know a little bit about one of the weapons for him that was Beta Tested, the PDQ (forgot what it stands for). Point is it made it so you build much much faster (lvl1 sentry going up in only one or two seconds), but you cannot upgrade at all. That was leaked though, so we never got an official statement from Valve as to whether they liked it or not. Anyway, I can't wait for the engy update and I hope it'll make him more offensive.

 

[Simon]

Pyro is not unbalanced >.>

Anyway, yeah the Engineer Update is coming, and we know a little bit about one of the weapons for him that was Beta Tested, the PDQ (forgot what it stands for). Point is it made it so you build much much faster (lvl1 sentry going up in only one or two seconds), but you cannot upgrade at all. That was leaked though, so we never got an official statement from Valve as to whether they liked it or not. Anyway, I can't wait for the engy update and I hope it'll make him more offensive.

Agreed, Pyro is perfect

 

[crazyrockets]

I find that the engineer's buildings are fairly powerful as is, since its very difficult to go right at a sentry and break it, unless your a heavy with a medic, and its hard even then.

I think something better than the shotgun might be nice though

Heavy medic? Haha, I pity you! Even with the pyro nerf, I can usually take out 2 sentries, or at least make it into a safe area after taking out one while ubered. Medic demo are even better; they can take out 3 or 4 with a good pair! With a heavy, you are lucky if you take out 1, and you have a good chance of taking out none! (Fortunantly, when I play engineer, I plan for having heavy medic combos since so many people use them, so they have very little chance of taking things out )
The engineer's buildings aren't very hard to destroy, but you have to act properly to destroy them. After all, you don't try to kill a sniper with a pistol from range; you can do it, but getting up close is almost always more sucessful (best analogy I could think of right now).

EDIT: Pyro is nerfed though. Yea, I can get reflected rocket kills easier now, but I can't take out a badly placed sentry anymore without a degree of luck. The flamethrower just doesn't do enough damage.

 

[toastado]

I've never had a post that had so many replies so quickly!

Great ideas, guys! I pretty much agree with all of them except I hate the leaked thing about building faster with no upgrades. It doesn't take too long to upgrade or build if you know the right strategies, like upgrading your dispenser first. I especially like the 2-way tele and the wall tele, great ideas! I also think the engi should be more offensive and have a better first than shotty, but I think they should just make an auto shotty. Anymore suggestions, ideas, or reasons why something shouldn't be in the game?

 

[Dreadmaker]

Whenever valve makes an upgrade decision, the have to look at the weaknesses of the class, what the class brings to the table, and what trade-offs can be made. The heavy is a great example of this logic. Firstly, he had a problem with mid-range killing. He could do the damage, but the enemies could run away too fast for him to kill them; Enter Natascha, who deals with this problem admirably, but the incurred damage loss prevented it from breaking the game. The heavy also suffered from solo issues. While a heavy was strong with a medic, because of his low maneuverability, he suffered when venturing out alone, especially when it came to health. The sandvich made him more viable as a solo class while trading a versatile short-range weapon.


When we look at the engineer's strengths and weaknesses, what do we see? Valve has identified in one of their blog posts (and I would agree with them) that the engineer is often too tied to his gun, prevent his mobility. They tried to fix this with the repair node, but it didn't work well. I predict that they will find a solution to this problem and replace the pistol with it. Perhaps you trade your pistol for unsappable buildings, or buildings that take double the time to die from a sapper.

I'm not sure what I think about them replacing the main sentry set up. A lot of people wondered what they would do about the demoman's pipe launcher, because of how iconic it was; their solution was simply to give him 2 new secondary slots as well. Same goes for the spy's knife. So, they won't necessarily change the gun or the shotgun.


However, I have another prediction: A sentry that is only built to level 2, but has the ability to randomly crit. perhaps to balance it (because trading rockets for crits is a no-brainer in my opinion), they would give it less health, or less ammo.

I think ultimately, though, they will be changing the wrench to facilitate faster build times. The goal is to get engies out into the fray, and away from their guns, and being able to put up a level one in 2 seconds on the battlefield is going to help that process.

 

[Kevimaster]

EDIT: Pyro is nerfed though. Yea, I can get reflected rocket kills easier now, but I can't take out a badly placed sentry anymore without a degree of luck. The flamethrower just doesn't do enough damage.

Use the Backburner then You're trading off the ability to airblast for more damage, or vica verca. Its a tactical decision based on what threats you are facing at the time.

 

[Simon]

Use the Backburner then You're trading off the ability to airblast for more damage, or vica verca. Its a tactical decision based on what threats you are facing at the time.

Cant be bothered to airblast usually. Just charge in and BURN!

 

[crazyrockets]

Cant be bothered to airblast usually. Just charge in and BURN!

? Sorry, I prefer to actually get a kill if I am going to commit suicide

 

[Doomcat]

*thread is starting to get derailed, alert alert says the TF2 announcer*

anyway...an idea i like is something like the PDQ the problem is that a level 1 sentry could probably be exploited annoyingly, such as building one level one sentry down a long hallway and the engineer waits, sentry kills 1 or 2 people then gets destroyed, engineer retreats behind corner and builds another sentry in 2 seconds, enemy on they're way gets killed then engineer goes back to original position, repeat.

this could get incredibly annoying...but the concept IS sound so im willing to give it a chance.

a pistol replacement: well, something i think would be interesting: wheres the engi from? texas. whose a great cartoon character who shares a hat with the engineer? yosemidy sam. think: silver plated repeater. it has more accuracy and does more damage but fires slower. i wont go farther then that since i cant think of much else.

building replacements: well, the PDQ is a good idea but something thats interesting i believe would be a alternate sentry, that crit one was a good idea but seems too...meh, how should i put it? boreing! i know fire sentries have been put forward but mostly by those crazed mad engineers, tired of takeing stab'n'saps from spies who get away without a hitch and want revenge, this would unbalance the game a bit...something i think would be awesome would be a sticky sentry. the sentry is put up and the engineer can set up to 5 points for stickybombs like a demoman and when the sentry see's someone pass close to a spot it will detonate it. comes with level 2: 6 stickies and level 3: add level 1 sentry machinegun. i know it isn't balanced but its a concept, bare with me!

 

[Artinz]

I've had an idea for a while for those defensive engineers, instead of teleporters you could have 2 sets of motion detectors, that alert you when an enemy passes them, so that you can alert your team of when your intel/control point is being threatened.

 

[IrateDonnie]

I've always wanted a laser pointer so I can manually operate my sentry. I think it would be way overpowered though. Maybe if it only works with a level 2 sentry, and the sentry wouldn't auto-aim you'd have to actually manually fire it. It might be ok if it had limited ammo or something to keep from just having people spamming sentries.

 

[Kevimaster]

I think I'd like the ability to build 2 or 3 lvl1 sentries but they would be unupgradeable, I think that would be awesome , but when I play engie, I don't play turtle or defensive, I am extremely offensive.