Computer Build & Troubleshooting

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Snipeye

EGO Is My Life!
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May 6, 2009
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So let me explain the situation: My PC has been experiencing freezes and crashes more frequently for the past month. This past week it's gotten so bad, I decided to do some investigating around.

Problem #1: Video card's fan was not working. Idle temps of 90*C for my 9800GX2 would explain why the PC would crash after about 15-20 mins of gaming. Removed it, RMAing it back to EVGA for replacement. Placed a 8800GTS 320MB as a temporary replacement.

Problem #2: Blue screens, freezes, and crashes are still continuing. Video card temps are at 80*C so that's clear. Tested the RAM, used only 1 stick of Corsair XMS 2GB at a time. After about 5-10 mins on each stick, PC still crashed.

Should I test the computer using my 2x1GB DDR2 800 OCZ RAM, or is the RAM alright do you think?

If the RAM's alright, what is causing the crashing and freezing? My idea is that the hard drive was dying since its about 6 years old. I've already ordered a 1TB HDD and Windows 7 OS to replace my current OS and the old HDD. However, a new concern struck me is that WHAT IF both RAM sticks are dead, and/or a problem is going on with the motherboard? And if that's possible, what could cause it? Here I now eye the PSU, but I do not have another PC to plug that PSU into. So I need your judgment here? Am I correct in believing the crashes is the result of a bad hard drive and it just needs to be replaced? Or do I need to test the RAM more to see if that's what's causing it, and if they're both both bad, did a surge from my PSU cause it and will I need a replacement PSU?

Hopeful Fix:
The easiest way to fix all these problems is to simply buy/build a new PC. However, I'm under a huge budget constraint so there will be some parts that I'll reuse: Monitor, keyboard, mouse, and even my surround sound speakers would be reused (since they're all peripheral). I already got a 640GB HDD unused, and with the new HDD and OS en route, storage and OS costs are taken care of. And with the 9800GX2 being shipped back, I'll be able to reuse it, especially since it's still a great card and there's not many other cards that can beat it under a $200 price point (which is when I atypically upgrade).

That leaves a case, PSU, mobo, CPU, RAM, DVD burner to be bought. Below is what I'm thinking of getting. Mind you, my current setup is: C2D E6750 @2.66GHz, Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2 800MHz, 2x320GB HDD+750GB HDD internal, 1TB+640GB HDD external, 9800GX2 (8800GTS 320MB currently), GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 mobo, all inside an Apevia MX Pleasure Full tower case.


COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower $139.99

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz $199.99

GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 $119.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) $108.99

Logitech X-540 70 watts 5.1 Speakers $88.99

KINGWIN Mach 1 ABT-1000MA1S 1000W $164.99

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner $22.99

Subtotal: $845.93 ($756.94 w/out the speakers)

Hard drives for this setup will be: 1TB+640GB+750GB +320GB HDDs internal + the external hard drives.

9800GX2 will be used as the video card.

Hanns-G 21.6" LCD monitor + 19" Dell LCD Monitor will be used in a dual monitor setup.

My one question about this build, besides it being good, should I change the PSU to a lower wattage one, save some money that way (maybe up to $70?)
 
Do a stress test on the RAM with memtest. Do 1 stick in each slot individually. Sounds like defective RAM to me. Can you still RMA it?

And yes a 1000w is wayy overkill. I have 800w and it's working fine. BTW, why soo many HDDs?
 
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mattM_- said:
Do a stress test on the RAM with memtest. Do 1 stick in each slot individually. Sounds like defective RAM to me. Can you still RMA it?

And yes a 1000w is wayy overkill. I have 800w and it's working fine. BTW, why soo many HDDs?
Click to expand...

No offense, just because an 800w power supply works for you, doesn't mean it will work for someone else's computer, it really depends on what they are running in their system.

800w PS, might be OVERKILL for someone that isn't running as much stuff, it really really depends on the computer itself.

Best solution before you build your computer is google 'power supply calculator'

Like this one: http://thermaltake.outervision.com/ Always go a 'LITTLE' bit over the recommend just in case you want to add MORE stuff to your computer later, just because it says you can get a 650 PSU, get a 750 PSU so you have wiggle room.

Fill out all the fields, boxes, questions, and then go from there. This will save you money.
 
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*Wonders if Matt's head will explode when he hears that I used to run my system off a 430W PSU*

Edit: Garden's answer is probably the best and easiest answer. Generally speaking, more watts means more amps on the various voltage rails, which is what you're really buying for.

It is possible to get by on a lower wattage PSU if you can find one that puts out enough amps. I'm only using a 550W power supply on my machine to power:
  • E8500 @ what may as well be stock speeds
  • 4GB of DDR2 @ 1150
  • 8800GT OC
  • 3 HD's
  • 2 optical drives
  • and a partridge in a pear tree

The key is, my 550W PSU puts out a not inconsiderable 41A on a single 12V rail, which is more than sufficient for my needs. To give you an example, this 550W PSU only puts out 25A on a single 12V rail, which may not be enough to run my rig.** To further illustrate my point, this 680W PSU, has two 12V rails that combined still don't put out as many amps as my current 550W PSU.

The moral of the story is: not all PSU's are created equal. Buying more watts generally means more amps, but you can often get by with less if the PSU manages its power output better.

So, while I'd recommend Garden's solution for ease of use, just take this advice: whatever you buy, make sure it's a good brand.


**If we really want to get technical that 550W PSU should power my rig as well since it still puts out a few more amps on the 12V line than my older 430W PSU, but it wouldn't leave me with much room for future expansion.
 
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The Memtest sounds like the best idea. However, could someone point me how to set it up correctly? I've only done it once before, and it's been ages since then.

The hard drives. I started with the 320GB as a storage on a previous computer. When I built this PC originally, I added another 320GB for storage. Year and a half later, I needed more storage, so I plugged in the 750GB. Then I started to want to be able to backup my data, and the first external was the 640GB, then the 1TB I got a few months ago (cost like $70 for it! Black Friday shopping rules!)

Now I got a brand new internal 640GB HDD that I kept for over a year for the day I build a new PC and install windows 7 on it, but because of all these problems, it's coming up a lot sooner than I originally intended, with a new 1TB internal HDD too. Can never have too much storage I say. Backups for my backups.

BTW, Garden, I agree, the 1000w PSU is overkill. If I remember correctly, that PSU was chosen when I was picking out the parts for my new build, which originally envisioned having SLI/Crossfire, with a DVD and Blu-ray Drives, sound card, 3 or 4x120mm LED fans, and a total of four internal HDDs (3x7200rpm, 1xSSD). Suffice to say, I downgraded that build to a more realistic cost.
 
I just figured with the listed specs, and the good chance hes just gaming :P. I tend to see more 1000w for people with i7s OCn crossfire higher end cards :P

But anyhow, run the memtest over night. Is your RAM still under warranty?
 
mattM_- said:
I just figured with the listed specs, and the good chance hes just gaming :P. I tend to see more 1000w for people with i7s OCn crossfire higher end cards :P

But anyhow, run the memtest over night. Is your RAM still under warranty?
Click to expand...

I remember running a computer with Q6600 quad core and 8800GTS on an antec 350w PSU lol. Anything is possible.

What your problem sounds like is a very similar one I had last summer when I tried to move my desktop machine overseas. I had stupidly left my 4870X2 in the computer when I had shipped it, and as a result, I had to return the thing to newegg because of a couple broken contacts on the card itself. Didnt end up being too bad actually because I ended up with a new GTX295 instead :P

But the point of the story is that I had very similar problems that you are having right now. The computer turned on fine and ALL other parts worked perfectly. The fan on the video card would spin when it got power, but would stop after about three seconds after being turned on. Luckily I had some error-code LED's on my card which hinted me to the issue.

After fooling with the defective card for about 3 hours in hopes of salvaging it; changing out numerous drivers, system restores, etc, I ended up putting in a graphics card from my secondary computer. I also had a spare 8800GTS laying around (great card) and it worked perfectly when I put it in.

If the problems you mentioned in problem #2 are happening after you had put the 8800 in, it is possible that the crashes and blue screens are being caused by conflicting remains of the 9800 drivers. As for the high temperatures, that does not make a whole lot of sense if you are only recently getting temps that high.

Where are your temp readings coming from? Can you manually check the idle temps in the BIOS?

On a quick side note, it is possible that bad RAM could have overheated your 9800 to death, so to speak. But seeing as you have tried both strips of RAM one at a time in the computer, its unlikely RAM is the issue.

And on a far reach here, if none of the above work, your motherboard could have a short in it somewhere. Perhaps try reseating it and other hardware for good measure.

-Blue
 
The way this entire sequence happened was:
1) PC getting freezes/crashes infrequently a month ago
2) A week PC, freezes/crashes becoming more frequent, and expected
3) Past Saturday/Sunday, PC would stay on for only about 30 mins at best before crashing.
4) Investigated, expected that it was the HDD that was dying. Instead, I discovered the GPU's fan not working. Swapped it out Monday and retested system. Received blue screen and a freeze/crash that night.
5) Individually tested each stick of Corsair XMS ram (2GB/stick). Crashed within 10 minutes for each stick. Meanwhile, temperatures are good after the video card switch, proving the video card was an issue, BUT not the only one in the PC.
6) Now running the 8800GTS inside, but swapped out both sticks of memory for my old OCZ 2x1GB DDR 800MHz sticks. PC has run so far for about 11 minutes as I'm typing this, but the first start up for a day, it would usually last up to 30 minutes before the crashes become frequent.

If I repost on here in an hour, then I got some more investigating to do with the RAM. I am TEMPTED to blame the crashes on the RAM, but I think there's an additional issue with the hard, which needs to be replaced irregardless since it's been in use for over 6 years now.

Last concern, PSU possibly responsible for the crashing AND/OR dead hardware parts, if RAM does turn out to be defective, in addition to the 9800GX2 dying. More fears to add to the list.

P.S. I'm incapable of PMing as it'd literaly take an hr on my smart phone to do. This took about 15 mins.
 
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Snipeye said:
The way this entire sequence happened was:
1) PC getting freezes/crashes infrequently a month ago
2) A week PC, freezes/crashes becoming more frequent, and expected
3) Past Saturday/Sunday, PC would stay on for only about 30 mins at best before crashing.
4) Investigated, expected that it was the HDD that was dying. Instead, I discovered the GPU's fan not working. Swapped it out Monday and retested system. Received blue screen and a freeze/crash that night.
5) Individually tested each stick of Corsair XMS ram (2GB/stick). Crashed within 10 minutes for each stick. Meanwhile, temperatures are good after the video card switch, proving the video card was an issue, BUT not the only one in the PC.
6) Now running the 8800GTS inside, but swapped out both sticks of memory for my old OCZ 2x1GB DDR 800MHz sticks. PC has run so far for about 11 minutes as I'm typing this, but the first start up for a day, it would usually last up to 30 minutes before the crashes become frequent.

If I repost on here in an hour, then I got some more investigating to do with the RAM. I am TEMPTED to blame the crashes on the RAM, but I think there's an additional issue with the hard, which needs to be replaced irregardless since it's been in use for over 6 years now.

Last concern, PSU possibly responsible for the crashing AND/OR dead hardware parts, if RAM does turn out to be defective, in addition to the 9800GX2 dying. More fears to add to the list.

P.S. I'm incapable of PMing as it'd literaly take an hr on my smart phone to do. This took about 15 mins.
Click to expand...

I will agree with you on the hard drive problem. However, I do not think the hardware itself is to blame for the BSOD's. I believe you have multiple corrupted video drivers that are crashing your computer in a fit of incompatibility.

-Blue
 
PC just crashed. Setting up memtest to make sure all sticks of RAM is good. Once they're cleared, I'll wait till hdd arrives to install win7 on it. Hopefully its the hard drive and not the PSU
 
So, I need to uninstall all the video drivers, and then reinstall them for the video card that's installed currently?
 
Snipeye said:
So, I need to uninstall all the video drivers, and then reinstall them for the video card that's installed currently?
Click to expand...

Yes, if its a video driver problem. Try Driver Sweeper. I've personally never used it and if anyone has anything better, speak up. Whipe anything video driver related, then reinstall the correct drivers. Try doing this all in safe mode!
 
Update: Now every time the PC crashes, I'm getting BSODs. I even changed out the sticks of RAM with a set that were good. Mobo or PSU failure now do you think? Maybe the mobo's RAM sockets are bad from the PSU dying?

HDD and Win7 will arrive today, but with these other issues (and all the BSODs), I'm concerned the other hardware parts are actually bad...
 
Update: I never did manage to do a memtest for the memory. As it turns out, I didn't need to. I received my new HDD and Win7 disk on Thursday, swapped out the old for them. Installed the new OS, patched and updated. The PC ran for 48 straights into Saturday evening without a single crash. It appears that my original guess that it was the HDD dying looks to be correct, though catching the video card's fan death was a side benefit. The RMA for that should be received by eVGA today, so hopefully by Friday I'll receive my replacement.

Thanks for everyone that's been involved in helping me trouble shoot the PC and get it fixed up. That still leaves the first part of the topic name: What did you think of the setup I picked out?
 
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