Homewrecker gets useful

[DRaGZ]

Guys, I think we're missing the elephant in the room here.

It's a pyro. It shoots frickin' FIRE. Why should a class that is solely based upon roasting the flesh of other classes into burning charcoal that vaguely resembles something that USED to be human be restricted to being the engineer's SECOND TURRET?

The pyro can kill a scout, sniper, spy or engie in 1.2 seconds. With it's WEAK gun. It also has an ax that can kill everything but a heavy in ONE SHOT. And, if you trade in the ability to reflect other people's rockets, you can do not double damage, but 300% damage, 100% of the time.


How is it possible that we can call this class only fit to sit with an engineer in the back, helping him fix his gun? Regardless of whether the homewrecker is useless or not, you can't possibly look me in the eye and call the pyro a support class.



Also, incidentally:



This is now in my sig.

The Pyro is, by far, the worst of the "assault" classes. That 1.2 seconds you cited, assuming that the game is not hitscan glitching again and not having all of the flame projectiles hit, is only if they are either caught completely unaware, in which case any class would've done the job, or if they are standing completely still and not fighting back. A Scout can run backwards faster than a Pyro can run forwards. The Spy is the Pyro's natural prey. An Engy without his Sentry is asking to get killed, by any other class. A Sniper is supposed to be terrible up close.

In the same range of a Pyro's flame, a Heavy can kill a 125 class in a split second. So can a Soldier. So can a Demoman. In TF2, like in most FPSes, a second is an eternity.

Really, they should've buffed the Pyro's afterburn instead of shorten it, and then they should've also made both flamethrowers slightly stronger. As it currently stand, the Pyro works most efficiently when against predictable projectile users or in an ambush, both of which are really situational.

 

[BodyBagger08]

I am neutral about this update because i am a pro spy but still the engineer can destroy you with one hit from his wrench(not to mention to new engie update coming soon) and with the pyro's guarding the sentry it is already hard enough now its almost impossible... but ill find a way.

 

[s3rv0]

Pyro has always been counter-spy. He and engi have always had a decent relationship, and now it just got better with the synergy added from this. And remember, we're about to see an engi update that will have a very direct impact on the utility and use of sappers, so just wait and see how this changes the game once that update is released as well.


@ Dreadmaker:

You're acting like the pyro got nerfed in addition to this change, and now his only utility is to camp engi turrets. This only added to the range of things the pyro can do, so you can't sit there and say "How can you make the pyro only fit to camp turrets!!?!?!?!??!!!!??!" when the pyro still does all that stuff you mentioned just as well as it did before. It's a minor buff to make pyro players who don't use melee weapons still have a use for the melee weapon slot, and to strengthen the engi/pyro relationship.

 

[Dreadmaker]

@ Dreadmaker:

You're acting like the pyro got nerfed in addition to this change, and now his only utility is to camp engi turrets. This only added to the range of things the pyro can do, so you can't sit there and say "How can you make the pyro only fit to camp turrets!!?!?!?!??!!!!??!" when the pyro still does all that stuff you mentioned just as well as it did before. It's a minor buff to make pyro players who don't use melee weapons still have a use for the melee weapon slot, and to strengthen the engi/pyro relationship.

That isn't what I meant to say at all. I was reacting to the members who said that pyros are now only a support class. I fully believe that the pyro is a completely competent offensive class; I never said "How can you make the pyro only fit to camp turrets!!?!?!?!??!!!!??!", I was commenting on the other members who were suggesting that. Re-read what I said, but if I didn't come across well, I apologize, and that isn't what I meant to say.

There have been a number of people in this thread who have suggested that with the list of changes over the years, the pyros have become useless, and I was just stating how much I disagreed with it. As for the homewrecker's uses, I personally would never give up my ability to one-shot burning enemies for the chance to occasionally kill a sapper, but realistically, it's an individual choice that does, in fact, lend the pyro more utility.

 

[s3rv0]

Ah, I see, I thought you were saying that the pyro is relegated to utility, not arguing the opposite. Anyway, yes, I LOVE the good old one-two-three of burn+air blast+axetinguish. Pulling it off is challenging and very rewarding. However, there are times on defense when I think homewrecker would be very nice just to help engis.

That said, I feel like spy just had his job made a lot harder. :\ Hopefully the engineer update changes some mechanics of engineers to compensate and make spy's life a little easier, and that comment is coming from a die-hard engineer. He's my most played, and second is spy. I'm still bitter that they made sappers on teleporters appear at both ends. I loved playing stages that were very long (stage 3 goldrush, for example, or badwater basin) and creeping behind enemy lines to sabotage their teleporters. It was a greatly underestimated tactic, and when defense was feeling pressured it would buy some much needed rebuilding time. Now, obviously, that's much harder. Now it kinda seems like the sapper is highly situational. Don't bother a stab and sap unless there are no other engis around, and no pyros using homewrecker. :\

 

[Cheez]

Wow you guys are so passionate about this game, I'm sure the TF2 team are just loving it. As for the homewreaker, I actually prefer it as my #1 weapon of choice when taking out sentries instead of flaming.

I believe people think its useless now, but it might be something to counter the engineer's new toy. Something to think about.

 

[Dreadmaker]

Wow you guys are so passionate about this game, I'm sure the TF2 team are just loving it. As for the homewreaker, I actually prefer it as my #1 weapon of choice when taking out sentries instead of flaming.

I believe people think its useless now, but it might be something to counter the engineer's new toy. Something to think about.

Cheez, you're going to have to help me here. I was thinking about this last night, and I couldn't come up with an answer.

So yes, it's way harder (if not close to impossible) now for a flamethrower-wielding pyro to circle-strafe a level 3 sentry and flame it to death. A backburner pyro can do it just fine, just like before, but a flame pyro cannot. so, how does the homewrecker remedy that? How can you take out sentries with it?

The only explanation I could come up with by myself is if the engineer placed his building in a famously stupid place. I realize that it takes one hit to kill a level 1 or two, but that extra hit you need to take a level three makes it (I would think) basically impossible to do. Plus, if you're melee range on a sentry, you're treading a thin line anyhow. If you're ubered, I could see it, but on your own? Help me out here.

And this is part of my problem in switching to the homewrecker. I love being able to one-shot flaming enemies, but the other reason is that I don't know how to use the homewrecker effectively. It's a one-shot to any level 1 or two buildings, but closing that distance is difficult, no?


By the way, I think that's only part of the issue as well. frankly, I don't think I would ever trade a weapon that effectively one-shots 7 of the nine classes (pyros don't burn) for one that only works against one class effectively.

 

[s3rv0]

By the way, I think that's only part of the issue as well. frankly, I don't think I would ever trade a weapon that effectively one-shots 7 of the nine classes (pyros don't burn) for one that only works against one class effectively.

Yeah, it's a big trade off to make. However, as Valve has put it, no class has a larger footprint on the game than engineer. A few coordinated, skillfull, and cooperating engineers can totally silence an offensive team. It's pretty tough to say that about other classes.

 

[Dreadmaker]

Yeah, it's a big trade off to make. However, as Valve has put it, no class has a larger footprint on the game than engineer. A few coordinated, skillfull, and cooperating engineers can totally silence an offensive team. It's pretty tough to say that about other classes.

It's true, but I think I overstated; I don't think it even gets to be called effective against that one class.

The axtinguisher has the ability to kill any burning enemy in one shot (assuming it isn't a heavy). This is also situational, of course... the enemy DOES have to be burning first.

However, for the HW to be useful in the same way against engineers, The pyro has to close the distance to a sentry, and if it's a full nest, hit it twice and then deal with the engineer separately. I feel that in order to use that effectively, you're going to need an uber, and really, I think very few medics would use a pyro for sentry killing when a more popular sentry killing class, like a demo, soldier, or even a heavy were around. Better yet, while explosives and bullets don't splash through the sentry, flame does. If you use a flamethrower right at the sentry, you'll hit the engie behind it AND the gun. It might take a little longer, but you won't have to worry about the engie repairing his stuff. That means that even if a pyro were ubered, it almost seems more useful to just use fire to kill the sentry.

What I'm saying is that the homewrecker is VERY situational. More so, I would say, than the axtinguisher. So yes, the engineer is a very influential class that can seriously change the outcome of any game he's apart of, but for the homewrecker to be even worthy consideration to me, it would need to be less situational and more reliable.

 

[Cheez]

It's true, but I think I overstated; I don't think it even gets to be called effective against that one class.

The axtinguisher has the ability to kill any burning enemy in one shot (assuming it isn't a heavy). This is also situational, of course... the enemy DOES have to be burning first.

However, for the HW to be useful in the same way against engineers, The pyro has to close the distance to a sentry, and if it's a full nest, hit it twice and then deal with the engineer separately. I feel that in order to use that effectively, you're going to need an uber, and really, I think very few medics would use a pyro for sentry killing when a more popular sentry killing class, like a demo, soldier, or even a heavy were around. Better yet, while explosives and bullets don't splash through the sentry, flame does. If you use a flamethrower right at the sentry, you'll hit the engie behind it AND the gun. It might take a little longer, but you won't have to worry about the engie repairing his stuff. That means that even if a pyro were ubered, it almost seems more useful to just use fire to kill the sentry.

What I'm saying is that the homewrecker is VERY situational. More so, I would say, than the axtinguisher. So yes, the engineer is a very influential class that can seriously change the outcome of any game he's apart of, but for the homewrecker to be even worthy consideration to me, it would need to be less situational and more reliable.

We can all agree the demoman is the right man for the job of taking out sentries. It is much easier for sure.

If just depends on your play style, if it doesn't suit you then you don't use it. I wouldn't think too much about it. I'm a 2Fort regular so I have a backburner, shotgun, and the homewreaker.

All I'm saying is, from my game play I found that the homewreaker takes out sentries faster than flaming it. Also its a pub so I don't expect Medics ubering me to run in front of the sentry for me, but if they do that is how I get close enough to hit them. The homewreaker must do more damage than the engineers can repair - I'm not sure, but that must be it.

I rarely need to take out my 3 slot weapon since I already have a shotgun. Most people like the flame + axetinguisher combo. I'm the flame + shotgun type since its 2Fort, people tend to jump in the water.

I hope that answered your question.

 

[Dreadmaker]

We can all agree the demoman is the right man for the job of taking out sentries. It is much easier for sure.

If just depends on your play style, if it doesn't suit you then you don't use it. I wouldn't think too much about it. I'm a 2Fort regular so I have a backburner, shotgun, and the homewreaker.

All I'm saying is, from my game play I found that the homewreaker takes out sentries faster than flaming it. Also its a pub so I don't expect Medics ubering me to run in front of the sentry for me, but if they do that is how I get close enough to hit them. The homewreaker must do more damage than the engineers can repair - I'm not sure, but that must be it.

I rarely need to take out my 3 slot weapon since I already have a shotgun. Most people like the flame + axetinguisher combo. I'm the flame + shotgun type since its 2Fort, people tend to jump in the water.

I hope that answered your question.

It does answer my question: you're a traditional pyro.

I remember, back in the days before the pyro update, that most good pyros were flame-shotgun pyros because there wasn't anything else. Now, anyone who maintains that playstyle loses nothing, and gains 100% crits from the back and a third slot utility, instead of a rarely used one-shot melee tool. In that sense, you make a very strong case for it. It's an upgrade over the old-school ax, certainly, and if you're rarely going to use it, it might as well be situational.

It's a good case. I'm currently using backburner, flare, and axtinguisher, but I think I might bring back the shotgun. I don't play the pyro much, but I think I might just get back to roots in the near future

That doesn't mean I'll be using the HW though... I think I'm gonna stick with the axtinguisher for at least a while, for 2 reasons. First, because again, even if I rarely use melee, the utility for catching people off-guard or from behind is something that I like. Second, because a few days ago, I smelted my 3 homewreckers into scrap, and now I don't have one. I DO have 2/3 refined metals I need for a hat, however

 

[GreatNate]

I think it is interesting, I may equip it just to go around and try it.