Official Engi Update Discussion/Speculation

s3rv0

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So, apart from the "Engi is getting a robot" generic stuff, I'm kind of disappointed that no one is talking about this. Engi is my favorite class, and I love game theory, so I'm looking for someone to talk to about this all! Here's some interesting-if-true things I've heard:

  • Engineer will have multiple types of robots
  • Engineer robots will be designed to stay back and repair buildings
  • Engineer will build robots of different classes (e.g. Heavy robots, demo robots, etc.)
  • Engineer may have a wielding torch as a replacement secondary or melee weapon, designed for melee damage and, obviously, lighting folks on fire
  • Engineer might get a hammer as second melee choice. Personal speculation: It could be less efficient at or incapable of helping buildings build faster, but will still upgrade/repair them. Perhaps it only applies 20 metal per hit to upgrade instead of 25 (requiring 2 extra swings to upgrade any building one time, 4 extra from 1-3), and has a similar deficit in repairing. In exchange, it will do more damage to people. <sarcasm> can be thrown and will be magnetically attracted to the spy cloak resonance field, instantly killing the spy. </sarcasm> :cool:
  • Engineer robots will not fight other team, instead search tirelessly for Sarah Connor.
  • A Repair Node can be seen in the background of the engineer update teaser trailer. The building, or at least the model, may yet find its way into the engineer update.



I consider it essentially guaranteed that Engi will have a robot. THe idea that there will be classes is intriguing - it offers unparalleled versatility to the class, and balance wouldn't be an issue; you could modify the AI, speed, damage, rate of fire, etc. of robots to balance them perfectly (in Valve-speak, they have a lot of knobs you can turn in order to balance them). Engineers could be great offensive players to their team. Previously, an offensive engineer (O-Engi) would build a teleporter, a dispenser in a handy spot, and a sentry to hold the frontlines and give his team an area of safety and security in which to resupply and prepare. And then....he sits. Waits for spies to come, whacks a building when it takes damage...and sits.

Furthremore, an engineer who could build robots, say, instead of sentries, would achieve a goal Valve wants for all classes: Make them greater team-players. An O-Engi with sentry could hold the front line, and 1-2 more that might otherwise not be as useful could build robots, dispensers and teleporters. He would both complement his team better, but also be reliant on them to help cover up some of the sacrifices he is making to do so. The robots could be tailored to the team needs (need a demo-robot to try to help take out a D-Engi sentry? Or at least be bait for it while the rest of your team blows it up?). And, while that robot is out fragging, the engi - offensive or defensive - is free to roam more, not having to babysit a gun knowing that if he abandons it, his team may be left defenseless.


Sources, if you're curious or want to read more for yourself:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1256580
http://www.teamfortress.com/classless/hidden/populace/
 
I thought of a few things:
1. Radar that either detects all enemies, or causes spies to lose their cloak or both
2. Laser tripwire to detect/shock intruders mounted wall to wall
3. Boobytraps
4. Wall mounted turrets
5. Repair bot/node
6. Energy shield bot/node

As for weapons:
1. Level 10 wrench or something to build faster
2. Spanner gun like the old TF
3. Rail gun (but that would conflict with sniper)

Personally I wish every class could drop excess metal so engies wouldn't have to travel so far to get some.
 
Engineers will get a speculation robot, specifically designed to spend the game speculating about future updates.
 
The Repair Node could be seen in the video since Valve came out with it already and said it was unbalanced and they didn't want to do it. Unless they come up with something new for it, it's not coming out for sure.

I still dont know what to think about the robot stuff. Where as it does look and sound cool, the idea behind it sounds kind of... Complicated for something for TF2. If you look at how fast paced TF2 is to begin with, having an adjustable machine that you need to tweak around for your needs would be taking precious time from your that you could use to better defend your point/intel/cart. But hey, I could be way wrong.

To jump to weapons for now, there's 3 of them that I think Valve would do: The Hammer, The Torch like you mentioned, or The Drill. I do hope they do the Torch instead, since burning spies or circle strafe heavies with that thing sounds so awesome. =O The Drill though, my idea behind it is that it applies a constant stream of upgrading/repairing for your buildings instead of whacks. It would have a windup time like the minigun has before you can use it, but it would work slightly faster and helps you keep your sentry up better against heavy fire. Downside would be that you can't move around and try to heal both your sentry and dispenser if both are underfire. And of course the windup time. Plus instead of running around with it blazing, it would eat up your metal as you use it, even if you weren't building/repairing anything.

The Engy needs a portal gun. =[ Period. Screw Teleports. Go open a portal somewhere, then hide so that you wont die and the portal close. >=D

Other than the weapons I mentioned, I dont really know what the update will bring. Maybe it's not a robot. It could be a mechanic Engy enhancement to make the engy more battle ready for the front lines. xD
 
When I saw the welder it made me think of Star Wars Battlefront. Didn't the engineers in that game have welders to repair the health stations? I think Valve would be a little more original than that. I'm still betting that he gets wheels or tracks for his sentry. I could see him getting the hammer, I think it would build twice as fast as normal, but it can't upgrade buildings, and does more damage than the wrench.
Hopefully they start announcing it soon, usually it's about a month after they say it's "coming soon"....Except for the Scout update which they didn't announce Hopefully the release a "Meet the Medic" video this time, I'm looking forward to that one.
 
Read this:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1017154

I want this. This is an excellent idea for a replacement shotgun, and in my opinion, since the engineer is currently the only class without a unique primary slot weapon (heavy, soldier, pyro all have shotty), she should really be getting one.


Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but as we saw in Ill Legend's epic video thread, they are working on bots. This lends even more to the idea of robots; The AI they would use has already been in development for a few months, and we've unwittingly been beta-testing it.

Now, on these bots, I've recently been playing around with them, and they're pretty stupid sometimes. My two biggest gripes about bots not doing well are engie bots and general spy detection. The Engineer bots are totally self-centered; if you put up a gun beside their level 3 and their full dispenser, they won't help you in the least. As for spies, the bots don't have a clue. I can repeatedly sap guns and run away, stab other teammates, run back and sap the rebuilt guns... all without an ounce of suspicion.

However, I don't think either of these cases are relevant to the update. I think an Engie robot would likely be tethered to your own buildings, whereas a spy bot would likely kill viruses (zing!). In reality, I don't think a spy bot would happen.. that's just scary as hell.
 
I really like the Morgan idea as well, Dreadmaker. Can't say how many times I've facepalmed, even face-keyboarded or face-desked, at the frustration of trying to set up a forward base for my team so I can safely give them a dispenser to resupply with and a tele exit that safe from campers or other sudden surprises when they come through it.

As for the AI requirements of the robot to be effective, it all depends on its capabilities. If engi can build class-based robots, AI would need to be very broad and varied based on class. Otherwise, if it's limited as to what kinds he can build, or if there's only one kind, I think it would open things up a bit. AI could be made very specific (after all, if there's only one set of AI to use, you can spend more time tweaking and perfecting it as opposed to working on up to 9 different sets of AI), and I think it would wind up being more effective, but less versatile. Will be interesting to see.

And I think we will see an update to the sentry, the shotgun and the pistol. The dispenser and teleporter are just too essential to do without, and if they got an alternative, it would have to be something really impressive and gamechanging...and as Valve has said, the engi already has the largest footprint in the game, and giving them even bigger gamechanging tools would not be a step in the right direction.
 
Well, since we're just make-believing, what about...


Engineer will get a new wrench, that let's him upgrade his equipment with alternative enjoyments. Downside to new wrench is: engi can only store 100 metal at a time, making it slightly harder to upgrade equipment...

Dispenser: At Lvl 3, teammates standing near it have an increased rate of finding drops (weapons/hats). Can be easily identified be the milling crowds of idlers standing around it 'playing' TF2.

Sentry: Lvl 3 sentry has a robotic arm that continuously rotates around it in a 360 degree radius. The arm moves pretty fast and knocks enemies away, making it harder for spies to sap it. Downside: no rockets.

Teleporter: Maximum distance that teleporters can be built away from each other is now limited.
 
Well, since we're just make-believing, what about...


Engineer will get a new wrench, that let's him upgrade his equipment with alternative enjoyments. Downside to new wrench is: engi can only store 100 metal at a time, making it slightly harder to upgrade equipment...

Dispenser: At Lvl 3, teammates standing near it have an increased rate of finding drops (weapons/hats). Can be easily identified be the milling crowds of idlers standing around it 'playing' TF2.

Lawl.

Teleporter: Maximum distance that teleporters can be built away from each other is now limited.

In exchange for what? Faster recharge, temporary damage resistance or damage bonus upon exiting teleporter?
 
New weapon: The Jack Hammer. Does 2 x wrench damage. Builds 1.5 times as fast. Only works within 25 feet of a dispenser.
 
New weapon: The Jack Hammer. Does 2 x wrench damage. Builds 1.5 times as fast. Only works within 25 feet of a dispenser.

Interesting concept, except engis usually ARE 25 feet from their dispensers, making this weapon practically a universal upgrade over the wrench. The only downside is when you are first building, you have to drop your dispenser and wait for it to build manually. Not necessarily a terrible thing, you can use the opportunity to go find more metal and start your sentry or other buildings. Remember, the main goal of the update is to make engineers less bound to their buildings, and more versatile. The jackhammer, though cool, would cement their current role as turret-campers, and as a primarily defensive class.
 
Isn't it obvious to you guys that the engi update will be a portable toaster that will go around on wheels and serve sandviches to your team mates so they can keep battling?

Duh.


if not though, I want the engi to make these:

sh2_pyramid_head.jpg
 
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Valve has made all the "tf_bots" work pretty darn well, better than a lot of players [speculation] so that they may just use those for robots [/speculation], they're also pretty handing for testing koth maps lol
 
All the engi needs is a sentry upgrade that shoots away stickys and pipe bombs. Or the ability to uber the sentry itself, save my gun doc!
 
All the engi needs is a sentry upgrade that shoots away stickys and pipe bombs. Or the ability to uber the sentry itself, save my gun doc!

There are times when that'd be very nice. It is an acquired engi skill, though, whacking a gun, switching to pistol/shotty and killing a sticky or two, then going back to wrench to repair quick, etc. On top of that, using voice chat to tell your team where the demo is so they can dispatch him quickly - if he's using line of sight to stickybomb your gun, odds are he's sitting in one spot, pretty still. Sniper and spy bait. :)
 
I think it would be kind of cool for the engineers only new thing would be the robot, but a lot of attachments for the robot, and maybe robohats. :D
 
Man portable (throwable) smudge pots like they used to use to mark highway construction. Formulated to provide a smoke screen to prevent long range weapons from taking out a build or to screen an advance. Something like a smoke grenade but longer lasting. Each engineer gets two.
 
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