Golden Wrench QQ

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

This thread is only for QQ about the Golden Wrench. Substantive conversation about Engineer Update Stuff should go into the correct threads.

My internet is being stupid tonight, so no TF2 for me. Instead, I shall pontificate about how come I feel like Valve has kicked me in the head. Again.

Before we go any further, for all those out there who think a Golden Wrench is stupid because it "only turns people into gold," you're kinda missing the point. Every release of TF2 items is all about the shiney. Why do you want a Pile of Hats or iPod Earbuds? There are a lot of cosmetic bits to this game, which is cool.

When the cosmetics came out, I rolled my eyes. I didn't see the point. But there is a bit of joy that comes from getting an item you really wanted, or crafting it. And getting to pick a "costume" layout for your character in addition to the weapons loadout is actually cool. Although I will admit to preferring earning an item. Getting a random Direct Hit is cool, earning a Direct Hit for being awesome at Soldier is even better. (Not to mention most of my Non-Engineer-Class-Time revolves around getting class weapons... the only way I can be coaxed into even learning the non-wrenchy classes)

But the wrench.

When I first heard about the Golden Wrench, I thought that was pretty darned cool. I didn't even care about the turning people into gold thingey. I just started thinking of all the cool things a Golden Wrench could signify. 5000 built sentries. 10,000 points of repair on other people's sentries. 1000 spies smacked. Something difficult to earn, but a badge of honor to those who use it. When you see an Engineer wielding the Golden Wrench, you know this one is a god among men, a true Engineering genius. I couldn't wait to see what it was all about.

It's yet another random drop. Except it's worse, because you have to combine random drops to get one. And you have a very small chance of getting it. And there's only 100. And they rub your face in it with ingame messages every time somebody else gets one.

Yet again, Valve provides a feature, not for those who are actually participating in the core game, but for lucky players who just happen to click the button at the right time. Sure, it's a silly stupid wrench skin. But I keep feeling like Valve is kicking me in the head, a player who is so dedicated to TF2 Engineer that only a Controlled Substance Game, like Eve Online, can sap any serious amount of time away. It's like the downer everyone got when the random drop system first appeared and the Newbies were walking around with the cool new items and you'd spent the last 20 game hours getting sandviches... if you were lucky enough to get anything. It could have been a badge of awesome. But it's just a lucky lotto thing. *sigh* Glad I burned through 40+ cycles of crafting two days ago. In order to get the Whiskered Gentlemen. For a class I don't play. Thank you, Valve..

QQ over. Feel free to add your QQ here. Nobody will judge you. In public. I'm off to get an icepack for my head. I feel like Troy Aikman over here.

(I approve of giving away items for achievements, for buying other games, for winning online contests like the Propoganda Posters contests... for things where skill and/or good old fashioned capitalism is involved. And if you add the random drop ON TOP of those, it's even better. But this lotto thing just really toasts my bacon.)

 

[Naku_vamp]

idk i heard it is a random drop theres infinite amounts the 100 wrenches is in crafting

 

[Doomcat]

personally, i agree with you. everyone sit back, think if Valve did this for every class. well, i dont know where im going with this, but just think about it for a moment. sure its something i WANT myself (the wrench) but if i get it, im going to feel horrible, because i know theres dozens of more dedicated engi players dieing for this same wrench.

oh well. im too tired for a good arguement.

 

[Korgot]

Stop complaining Auto, if I get one, I'll give it to you No, actually, I would keep it and record a demo of me deleting it that I would post on youtube

 

[Simon]

This is why I've got 2 hats in 80 hours of play. I don't care much for the cosmetics. I can't even see them when I'm busy firing a rocket into some guys face

 

[Cut Chem!st]

All the things you suggested that you said would be difficult to earn would all just be farmed in some type of achievement server, so... meh.

 

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

All the things you suggested that you said would be difficult to earn would all just be farmed in some type of achievement server, so... meh.

True, but trying to weed out farmers won't ever work. You've got Achievement_Idle, although I'm sure the drop has been tweaked so that you don't actually earn more by playing.

It's like "Gun Free Zones" or "Tax The Rich" or any other type of system where you try to take away gaming. Those who want to game the system will find a way anyway, and the only people punished are those playing by the rules. The only truly fair systems are "here you go, it's free for everyone, no limits" and "nobody gets anything." Any system based on time, effort, skill points, etc is going to be gamable.

I feel the opposite of most people. You wanna go farm those items? Is it that important to you to get the FAN? Then do it. It doesn't break my back. If you were farming for a limited supply of items, that would be one thing. But there are infinite FANs and infinite Blutsaugers. So I won't lose a chance at a FAN because JoeBlow decides to farm.

Except for Scout achievements (because I really, really wanted the FAN), I know, personally, that each and every one of my achievements for all other classes were earned the long way. That's worth something for me. Getting a golden wrench because I built 256 dispensers would be worth it, because I'd know, personally, that I got it the hard way.

As for Doomcat's argument, I'm 180 degrees again. If I got one, I'd be dancing around and feeling stupid for all my QQ. But it's like thinking about what I'd do if I won the Lottery or suddenly discovered I was the only living relative of a small royal family who had the misfortune of all being on the same boat in a storm. Fun to think about but silly unlikely. Same thing with these wrenches. Yes, perhaps, through random luck I'll get a gold wrench. However, it's much more likely that I'll be seeing people yukking up on servers because they got Golden Wrench #95 and hate playing Engineer. And I'll cry.

 

[Dreadmaker]

Alright, Auto. Allow me to retort.

Let's go back. Waaaaay back. Remember the Gentle Manne's service medal? There were a limited number that came out, and only for people who found a webpage first. It was a lot more than 100, granted, but it was also easy to get; you just had to be fast. There was a lot of rage about that, and I was playing a lot of soldier at the time, and thought the same thing as you.

What if you got the service medal for some awesome achievement? How about capping 10,000 objectives? How about killing 10,000 players, or getting 1000 one-shot crit gibs? It doesn't matter what the big-numbered hard-to-get thing is; what matters is that there is, indeed, potential there for showcasing skill through a cosmetic means.


However, that's not the purpose of the service medal, nor is it the purpose of the wrench. The purpose is LUCK, and bragging rights for being 'that guy'.



TF2, as a gaming experience, has always been one brilliantly catered to both the veterans and the new players, and it's for that exact reason that it's been so popular for so long. For instance: Yes, while you as a veteran engineer know all of the cool sentry spots (hypothetically) and can catch everyone unawares, a guy who's played for an hour can be either the medic or offensive class that takes you down. Worse, he could just be the guy that 'accidentally' kills the sentry with rocket splash while he's aiming for something else. Skill helps, of course, but random luck is fine too. Additionally, we have the system of random crits that incentivize playing well, but better yet, give new players a shot at taking down the best of the best.


That said, valve has always been conscious about making the game friendly to newer players, and I think that's been a big part of why we haven't seen 'cosmetic status' items that have carried any more weight than luck. I've long thought that players should get a badge, or item, or hat, for completing all of the achievements for a given class. I don't really see the harm to it. The closest we've seen recently is the 'timestamp badges' (grizzled vet etc.), which denote experience cosmetically. Additionally, we know about actual community involvement, because of the shiny editions of normal weapons that valve gives out to major community contributers. They function as a flag to the rest of us to let us know that that person has done something cool.


I think the impetus to avoid putting 'skill' items out there is to avoid any possible intimidation that a new player might experience when facing such a foe. Many other games, such as the halo series, have a publicly viewable ranking system, involving titles, and it's easily accessible. I've been over at friends' places, playing halo, and had them say "Oh, that guy's a [insert impressive rank], we better hop games. he'll kill us." That works directly against Valve's ideology, and I think that's why they've been avoiding it.


So, all told, I think it's not the wrench that you have a problem with; it's the fact that Valve has little recognition for skill in a cosmetic sense. You can have all the hats in the world and suck, or equally, have no hats and be the best player out there. Weapons used to be a testament to achievement, but no longer.


To be honest with you, I believe that in the future, when the engie update is long dead and they deviate from class updates, something like that might just show up. Valve is all about player incentivization (not that that's new; every major successful developer does it), and exclusive cosmetics seem like a good way to go. The disconnect doesn't seem large to move certain achievement related items out of the item drop system to make them a real testament to skill.


Of course, you need to tell that to the people who will get it illegitimately by achievement grinding. There's no perfect solution.



However, as far as the wrench goes, I think you have to realize that it's simply a service medal that's more exclusive. luck based only, and while this one cuts deep, because you're an engineer by trade and it's an item just MADE for you, think to yourself: if it was a golden shovel, would you be as annoyed?

 

[WaterSnake]

But we're forgetting the facts here.

THE WRENCH DOES NOTHING. NO COMBAT ADVANTAGE.

It's a vanity item, nothing more. Valve tried to make a highly coveted weapon, and if they didn't leave the acquisition to chance, then the wrenches would either go out too soon, or the challenge would be so hard all 100 wouldn't go out in time before thrusday.

 

[Kevimaster]

Oh my god, this thread has had so many tl;dr posts, it needs a health warning on it or something

Anyway, stop QQing, its a cosmetic wrench, it doesn't matter. Wouldn't be special either if everyone had it, so whatever *shrugs*

 

[crazyrockets]

It would be a very good idea if they made an achievment way to get the wrench or something like it later from achievments or such. True achievment servers are very rare now, they just don't have the demand anymore that they used to becuase of the drop system. Having a requirement (maybe you get the golden wrench after you get all of the engineering achievments) would create a challenge for those players dedicated enough to go for it. They could even throw a time played requirement in to help keep any achievment servers from giving it too easy.
I actually expect the new melee weapon for the engineer will do something very similar to what the golden wrench does: transform the dead targets into metal themselves. This would go perfect with his new mobile sentry (just guessing from the mobile gatling gun in the pics). The new item may not be gold or turn the target into gold, but it certainly would be useful enough to warrant use.
In any case, I am tired and the cake is a lie, so good luck plugging your brains into this thread!

 

[QuickSkope]

Im totally with you all on this, its unbelievable that valve would want to even out the game for people who bairly play it. I mean, it slaps me in the face that I earn something like the Ubersaw which I spend endless hours healling people, then someone picks it right back up.

I love cosmetics, and they should be given according to skill, not random drops, it is garbage.

PS. How do you get the wrench? you say crafting?, I thought it was random drops.

Edit, Saw on TF2.com, NVm about the last part.

 

[Carmine]

I want gold heavy fists.

CALL ME MIDAS BABIES!

 

[Prisoner416]

It's stupid.

First of all, 100 is a very VERY low number, the lowest I think they've ever done. Not only that, but it's tied to a random system, not finding a web page or completing a contest.

Also, consider the bloat. Now we've literally got more game data solely to serve these 100 weapons, turning people into gold and such. Something most people won't get to see since there's ONLY 100.

Valve seems to like playing with the OCD side of my mind. This is exactly why I never played WoW after the trial, and why I gave up Kingdom of Loathing. They are too unhealthy. I can't handle so many items I'll never get, like the medals, the halo, and what have you.

I know they serve no purpose, but I feel I must do everything in my power to obtain them.

 

[DRaGZ]

If they make a Gold Wrench, they should have a Gold version of every weapon ever. I want a gold Sandvich.

 

[? Frisky Dingo ?]

If they make a Gold Wrench, they should have a Gold version of every weapon ever. I want a gold Sandvich.

Id like a golden jar of pee...wait its already gold :glare:

 

[DRaGZ]

Id like a golden jar of pee...wait its already gold :glare:

It should just be a jar of solid gold. So when it hits a guy, it just goes CLUNK and works like a Sandman ball.

 

[Cl!FF]

Engineers with a golden wrench dies as easily as a engineer with a normal wrench,

all I can say is all these drops of hats, items and more crap makes people easier to kill, since you can distinguish players, therefore able to target them more easily

 

[? Frisky Dingo ?]

Engineers with a golden wrench dies as easily as a engineer with a normal wrench,

all I can say is all these drops of hats, items and more crap makes people easier to kill, since you can distinguish players, therefore able to target them more easily

LIES!!! My hat makes me harder to kill, therefore you sir are a liar!

 

[=[Ga]= AutoDMC]

I'll admit, the Gentle Mann's Medal I didn't care about... but I also don't feel personally attached to Soldier, either. But even with the Gentle Mann's Medal, you could earn it at work, or whatever. You got it for finding a page, not through random die rolls based on random drops. And there were over 10,000 of them. And I found the page, apparently, minutes after the last one went out.

I just feel cheated. Valve keeps making cool things, and then dangling them out of reach. I want an Engineer Ten-Gallon Hat. This isn't exactly a new item. I've got a one in a billion chance of getting one. Instead I get the Heavy's Fur Hat and a Demoman hat I care not about, and I craft them and get the Whiskered Gentleman. I've learned that crafting is pretty much a waste of time, as have many others. Solution? Make a cool prize that can only be made by crafting, and make only 100 of them. That's show them!

Instead of solving the problem (even though the drop system is getting better all the time, I still get tons of stuff I don't want and never get the stuff I do), they just keep adding new shiney things and setting them on the top shelf. And because the drop system isn't intelligent (it happily gives you duplicates) and the rate isn't going up, but the number of things you can get does, mathematically every update makes it even more unlikely you'll ever get the specific item you want.

I called it a QQ thread for a reason. I realize it's pure, unadulterated, Cry Some More. I'm not going to act like I'm going to stop playing TF2, and I'll enjoy the game just fine (although I reserve the right to ragequit when Valve rubs my face in not getting a gold wrench again). But I'd like to feel that I have a chance of actually customizing my TF2 experience through the items I want OR a standardized experience. How many here wear a hat or equip an item simply because you have one, not because you want it or even like it? I thought so.

I don't care about other people farming, but I do care about the constant advertising of cool shiney things that I never seem to have a snowball's chance of getting. 100 Gold Wrenches is just the epitome of this... with the bonus that this time it's my class that's getting hit over the head, instead of somebody else's. But hey, "Item drop sucks" isn't news

(( As for you guys who don't care about the Gold Wrench, please refrain from crafting anything for the next couple of days. I have a feeling about 30% of the gold wrenches will be going to people who don't care at all about them, which just makes me Cry Some More.))