See I don't see the shield as the major feature of the minigun, it could easily be a cool aesthetic, I think the main feature is the dual miniguns.
Polycount update is nigh
- Thread starter Dreadmaker
- Start date
See I don't see the shield as the major feature of the minigun, it could easily be a cool aesthetic, I think the main feature is the dual miniguns.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,134
Well sure. I think the shield will have to play some part in the implementation and all, but it's true that the dual barrels are probably more interesting. I think it's notable that the regular heavy's minigun has 6 chambers, and the dual ones have 3 each. To me that doesn't say more firepower, it says more volume. Perhaps double knockback for double ammo consumption?
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2008
- Messages
- 3,249
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,134
are these skins or actual weapons?
As Ezekiel said (that speedy guy), They are indeed actual weapons. They were submitted without suggested features, as a part of the contest, and so valve is in the process of designing and play-testing functions for all of them. That will make it into the biggest update ever! 12 new fully functional, playable items, and 5 new hats.
Ahso. Speculation: When the scout hits someone with the Holy Mackerel, that player stinks so bad no medics will be able to heal him for 20 seconds :confused1:
But the shield doesn't cover the heavy, it wouldn't make sense for it to have a gameplay effect. I would personally prefer maybe 25% more damage for double ammo consumption, knockback isn't useful to a heavy, he does his damage by being closer to people, not father away.
Also why are we discussing when it isn't even going to be in the game.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2010
- Messages
- 22
I'd agree with you if they had actually added another sentry with the ability to upgrade to level 3. If they really were never going to add anything for the engineer just because they were releasing the engineer update near the contest end, they wouldn't have allowed people to make a pack for him.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,134
You make a point. why don't we discuss pertinent things.
Ideas:
Darwin's Danger Shield (razorback replacement): Because the crocodile skin is more fibrous than the wooden razorback, I would say it wouldn't break on impact, but rather tear. My thought is that it would easily resist up to 5 backstabs, but because it doesn't have an electric shock attached to it, it also doesn't stun. That means a spy can repeatedly stab as often as he can until the thing finally tears away to nothing. It would make a unique sound, so the sniper knew what was happening.
I think that would be more balanced than the razorback, honestly. It might even be good enough that I would actually use it. The crappy thing about the razorback is that it's done after the first stab, and you've traded jarate for nothing. However, if it was more resilient at the cost of the stun effect, it would be more balanced.
Black Box (rocket launcher replacement): it's a big, heavy thing, and as such, it would make the soldier run at heavy speed. Plus, it would make his rocket jumps less effective because it would have to lift more weight. Big costs, to be sure. What's the gain? The same damage of the direct hit with only a 25% reduction in splash damage, as opposed to the DH's 70%. The rockets would go at the same speed as regular rockets. After all, it takes a lot of energy to move those things packed with MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF EXPLOSIVES forward.
Why 25%? well, the DH does 25% more damage. The idea here is that it does the exact same splash damage as regular rockets do, but if you DO happen to hit your enemy dead on, it'll be like hitting them with a slower DH; same amount of damage. It's the best of both worlds. The costs are big though; less height on rocket jumps and a slower run speed make it a big trade off.
The Holy Mackerel (Scout bat replacement): You just got hit with a FISH! in a NEWSPAPER! how embarrassing. Just about as embarrassing as jarate. Therefore, I suggest that every time someone gets hit with the mackerel, they suffer 2 seconds of mini-crits, each time he gets hit, the time is additive; if you get hit 3 times, it's 6 seconds of suffered minicrits (minus any time that's already been spent getting whacked). Why additive? getting hit with a fish sucks, but almost getting beaten to death? That's pretty damned demoralizing.
Bad thing? reduced damage, if only marginally. I mean, it is a fish. it's flexible. It doesn't have nearly the impact force of a metal bat, I would assume. Perhaps 60% of the damage makes sense. Since mini-crits are 135% damage, that would mean every hit after the first does roughly 81% of the original bat's damage.
Those are just some ideas... what do you guys think? Also, what are your ideas for some of these guys?
Last edited:
I dunno if they'll actually make the Soldier even slower. A big problem for him always has been that he's a slow character. The problem wasn't as drastic as with the Heavy, but it's definitely what makes him the weakest character in comp play.
I feel like Holy Mackarel will, indeed, give mini-crits.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,134
I agree that making the soldier slower is a big drawback, but if you read the description the modeler gave, it's a big, heavy gun. I feel as though making it trade speed for power would be balanced.
Comp play rarely sees the DH; frankly, I think they'd rarely see this weapon as well. Just because the weapon exists doesn't mean it'll be used everywhere; it means that it has a specialized use. I classify this sort of thing under 'heavy assault'. This would be perfect for killing sentry nests, which soldiers aren't the best at anyhow. The splash would make it as effective as the stock RL for killing the engineer behind the gun, and the direct damage would be great for nailing the gun if the engineer wasn't around to protect it. The trade off would be mobility, certainly; instead of being able to get around as easily, it turns him into an assault class that has a much larger effective range than the heavy, for instance.
To be honest, I don't really think valve would slow the soldier any more either, but these are ideas. If they did, I think it would be balanced, assuming they game him a particularly powerful advantage to counteract it. Look at the demoman's skullcutter... that's precisely what they did. Most powerful melee weapon in the game for being slowed down to slower than a soldier, and only slightly faster than the heavy.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 17, 2009
- Messages
- 336
I do believe people are missing the point here,...
What will the spy's weapons do?!
His knife already kills instantly, would it do more damage with a slower stab rate or the opposite? would it occasionally miss the backstab?
Why sunglasses? does it keep the Jarate out of his eyes?
How will the pistol change? I honestly have no real predictions there...
What will the spy's weapons do?!
His knife already kills instantly, would it do more damage with a slower stab rate or the opposite? would it occasionally miss the backstab?
Why sunglasses? does it keep the Jarate out of his eyes?
How will the pistol change? I honestly have no real predictions there...
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,134
Well, first, I'm pretty sure the sunglasses are part of the hat, so they won't have an effect (Most likely, of course).
And yeah, the reason I didn't propose a function for the knife is because I'm pretty confused myself. They didn't give the spy a new knife in his update, mostly because I think it, just like the engie's buildings, is a core mechanic that will be very touchy to change. I'm interested to see what they do with it. maybe they'll style it very much like the engie's new weapons, and not have it affect the backstab mechanic, but rather augment or change other things, like cloak length or run speed.
It was said from the beginning that Valve would add their own stats to whatever new models were submitted. I don't think that anything the submitters suggested will even make it to the drawing board.
And I don't think anyone wants to play a Soldier that's as slow as a Heavy. By that point, you might as well play Heavy and have a much higher DPS and the ability to heal yourself and have more HP.
Skullcutter is fine because Demo is technically the fastest class in the game with stickyjumping and the Targe also speeds him up dramatically. The slowdown was a much smaller issue.
An even slower Soldier is just depressing.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,134
nope. these weapons will be fully fledged unlockable community weapons, just like the homewrecker, the scotsman's skullcutter and the dalokohs bar. These weapons will all be released with completely unique functionality. Plus, 5 new hats to go along with the 12 fully functioning weapons! it's gonna be great
