Regular. It is sooooo much better in every way. Splash damage is the way I kill things, and the Direct hit does not have splash. Plus they you have to use the shotty for close range attacks, since the direct hit cannot do anything at close range, instead of being able to choose.
Intelligent Weapon Discussion #3: Soldier's Primary
- Thread starter Dreadmaker
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This thread is killing me. Please, for the love of god, the 'i' comes after the 'd'. It's soldier!! *sobbing*
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Direct Hit. It may have almost no blast radius but it still does. If you hit where it counts, a sparklerocket can take out 2 people at once. Its funny to watch Pyros try to airblast my drockets. Plus my DH shoots babies for rockets. 
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I agree with this.
Seriously it's like a book every time I read a post.
XD
A tl:dr would be nice.
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Alright, so allow me to put in my 3 cents (not 2 cents... you all know me. It's more than 2 cents.)
First of all, I agree with Auto on most of what he said. Took the words out of my mouth. However, in the interest of turning this debate upside-down and creating a little more discussion, I'm going to talk favorably about the DH.
BEFORE I DO, however, I want to say that I do, in fact, use the regular launcher, and I do think the DH is highly situational. I just want to get some devil's advocacy going on here.
The direct hit is ridiculously powerful. If you've spent the time practicing to get your aim up there, and you've spent the time getting used to the increased speed, both in rocket jumps and in combat, you can be a very, very deadly weapon with that thing. Notably, it only does about 112 damage at a mid-range, but it DOES experience damage ramp up; it maxes out at 140 damage at close range. I'm sure you've all experienced it, so I don't really need to say it, but that's plenty to 1-shot a good number of classes.
hook it up with the buff banner and we're talking about 151 damage per shot; that's enough for gunslinger engies as well, and it's certainly enough to make a fully-charged medic rage quit. It's crit of 338 is enough to kill anything that hasn't been overhealed. ANYTHING.
Now, many of you are complaining about the fact that you can't aim into a crowd and kill them all like you could with the regular rocket launcher; that's true. However, assuming there were 2 people standing right next to each other, it would probably take 2 or more rockets with the standard launcher to take them both out, if you were aiming at their feet. It would also take 2 rockets with the DH; the difference is that you don't aim them both in the middle, you aim them at the individuals. And that brings a very important theory up.
Think about all of the RPGs you've ever played. Think about final fantasy, when you're fighting 3 monsters of equal strength, and you don't have anybody in your party who can hit them all at once (someone screwed up on the party creation screen). What do you do? Do you focus your blows, or do you distribute them equally throughout the party? Any experienced player will tell you that you systematically eliminate them one by one, instead of killing them all at the same time.
Why? Simple. Hurting people doesn't reduce their ability to kill you. At all. KILLING people, on the other hand, does. Quite admirably, in fact. When you hit a crowd with a rocket launcher, you're giving them time to react; they're taking damage, they have a little flashy bar on their screen telling them where it's from, and depending on how fast you are, you could potentially be dead without killing ANY of them.
However, if you have a DH, you can 1-shot many lower health classes, and 2 shot basically everyone. Same scenario, with a crowd; instead of tickling everyone, you kill the engineer they were there to protect. Didn't notice you? Then they no longer have a medic. You could do that with the regular launcher, but it wouldn't do much for you, unless you got a lucky crit.
Now, I hear you out there, Auto; you mentioned in your post that you're happy to let your team kill that half-health guy you bruised. Normally, that's fine... if you have team support. However, if you're behind enemy lines and on your own, which soldiers tend to like to do, that half damaged guy is going to go and get health (through a medic or otherwise) and run away from you. More importantly, he'll live to kill you, or your teammates. If you 'snipe' him with the DH, there's no running away; he's gone! No coming back to kill your folks; he's watching a respawn timer.
So, basically, the idea I'm trying to get across here is that damage can easily be fixed, but death can't. When given the choice to partially damage 3 people or kill one, In my head, the choice is fairly obvious. Low health doesn't affect people's damage-inflicting capacity in any way, but death does. They might retreat out of fear for splash damage, but they also might come after you.
The DH, I would say, is the ideal weapon for roaming soldiers with no team support for that reason. If you have medics behind you, and you have a heavy sitting there to help, then yes, the rocket launcher is the best move. After all, it puts out more overall damage than the DH with its blast radius. However, if you DON'T have team support, the DH will ensure more actual kills for your efforts, which will not only benefit you, but also your team.
Oh, and a final thought: everyone's been saying the DH is better for killing sentries; I wholeheartedly disagree. If there's an engie there, the DH can't cut through it any better than the regular rockets can; the engie can still out-heal you. However, the regular rocket launcher can be used to inflict splash damage on the engineer, killing him, and making the sentry basically useless when it comes to rockets of any flavor; the DH can only hope to catch the engie off-guard.
Oh yeah, and this:
I take that as a compliment... and I respectfully decline <3
However, because the point can be ground down so easily on this post, I'll make an exception.
TL;DR: A damaged guy can still kill you. A dead guy can't. DH can 1-shot people, instead of tickling a crowd. 'Nuff said.
First of all, I agree with Auto on most of what he said. Took the words out of my mouth. However, in the interest of turning this debate upside-down and creating a little more discussion, I'm going to talk favorably about the DH.
BEFORE I DO, however, I want to say that I do, in fact, use the regular launcher, and I do think the DH is highly situational. I just want to get some devil's advocacy going on here.
The direct hit is ridiculously powerful. If you've spent the time practicing to get your aim up there, and you've spent the time getting used to the increased speed, both in rocket jumps and in combat, you can be a very, very deadly weapon with that thing. Notably, it only does about 112 damage at a mid-range, but it DOES experience damage ramp up; it maxes out at 140 damage at close range. I'm sure you've all experienced it, so I don't really need to say it, but that's plenty to 1-shot a good number of classes.
hook it up with the buff banner and we're talking about 151 damage per shot; that's enough for gunslinger engies as well, and it's certainly enough to make a fully-charged medic rage quit. It's crit of 338 is enough to kill anything that hasn't been overhealed. ANYTHING.
Now, many of you are complaining about the fact that you can't aim into a crowd and kill them all like you could with the regular rocket launcher; that's true. However, assuming there were 2 people standing right next to each other, it would probably take 2 or more rockets with the standard launcher to take them both out, if you were aiming at their feet. It would also take 2 rockets with the DH; the difference is that you don't aim them both in the middle, you aim them at the individuals. And that brings a very important theory up.
Think about all of the RPGs you've ever played. Think about final fantasy, when you're fighting 3 monsters of equal strength, and you don't have anybody in your party who can hit them all at once (someone screwed up on the party creation screen). What do you do? Do you focus your blows, or do you distribute them equally throughout the party? Any experienced player will tell you that you systematically eliminate them one by one, instead of killing them all at the same time.
Why? Simple. Hurting people doesn't reduce their ability to kill you. At all. KILLING people, on the other hand, does. Quite admirably, in fact. When you hit a crowd with a rocket launcher, you're giving them time to react; they're taking damage, they have a little flashy bar on their screen telling them where it's from, and depending on how fast you are, you could potentially be dead without killing ANY of them.
However, if you have a DH, you can 1-shot many lower health classes, and 2 shot basically everyone. Same scenario, with a crowd; instead of tickling everyone, you kill the engineer they were there to protect. Didn't notice you? Then they no longer have a medic. You could do that with the regular launcher, but it wouldn't do much for you, unless you got a lucky crit.
Now, I hear you out there, Auto; you mentioned in your post that you're happy to let your team kill that half-health guy you bruised. Normally, that's fine... if you have team support. However, if you're behind enemy lines and on your own, which soldiers tend to like to do, that half damaged guy is going to go and get health (through a medic or otherwise) and run away from you. More importantly, he'll live to kill you, or your teammates. If you 'snipe' him with the DH, there's no running away; he's gone! No coming back to kill your folks; he's watching a respawn timer.
So, basically, the idea I'm trying to get across here is that damage can easily be fixed, but death can't. When given the choice to partially damage 3 people or kill one, In my head, the choice is fairly obvious. Low health doesn't affect people's damage-inflicting capacity in any way, but death does. They might retreat out of fear for splash damage, but they also might come after you.
The DH, I would say, is the ideal weapon for roaming soldiers with no team support for that reason. If you have medics behind you, and you have a heavy sitting there to help, then yes, the rocket launcher is the best move. After all, it puts out more overall damage than the DH with its blast radius. However, if you DON'T have team support, the DH will ensure more actual kills for your efforts, which will not only benefit you, but also your team.
Oh, and a final thought: everyone's been saying the DH is better for killing sentries; I wholeheartedly disagree. If there's an engie there, the DH can't cut through it any better than the regular rockets can; the engie can still out-heal you. However, the regular rocket launcher can be used to inflict splash damage on the engineer, killing him, and making the sentry basically useless when it comes to rockets of any flavor; the DH can only hope to catch the engie off-guard.
Oh yeah, and this:
I take that as a compliment... and I respectfully decline <3
However, because the point can be ground down so easily on this post, I'll make an exception.
TL;DR: A damaged guy can still kill you. A dead guy can't. DH can 1-shot people, instead of tickling a crowd. 'Nuff said.
Last edited:
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I am simply not accurate enough to use the DH. Maybe with practice, sure, but not as of now. Rocket Launcher it is.
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Dreadmaker, I think we all can agree the Direct hit is a very worthy alternative to the rocket launcher, but only if you know how to use it.
the reason most people prefer the rocket launcher is:
A. they're used to it. they've been using it since long before the DH existed
and/or
B. they can't aim.
there's other reasons of course but the pros of a weapon cease to make it better if one can't hit people with it. if you can... more power to you!
the reason most people prefer the rocket launcher is:
A. they're used to it. they've been using it since long before the DH existed
and/or
B. they can't aim.
there's other reasons of course but the pros of a weapon cease to make it better if one can't hit people with it. if you can... more power to you!
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This, while their posts are very informative and well though out, I cannot bring myself to read through or even skim 95% of them to find the main point, so their logic and reasoning goes unheard here.
Anyway, on topic, Regular Rocket Launcher, its better for Rocket Jumping.
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Oh, and I most certainly agree; I'm one of those people who are too used to aiming at the other person's feet to actually be useful with the DH. I made that post for discussion reasons; I use the regular launcher (which I DID say at the top
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Normal
/thread
/thread
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I feel you bro, regular rocket launcher for me. low fps forced me to. splash damage for the win!
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I really don't like the direct hit. Dread's long post about it really made me want to try it... I practiced a ton on walkway, and it just feels like a pistol that takes too long to fire. I don't like the feel of it, and even if I can hit something, it really changes the way I play soldier. Not much fun IMHO
I'll take the ol' faithful rocket launcher. The DH is nice for some situations, and is much better for close quarters due to splash damage not really hurting you when you hit someone. So in close maps like Blackmesa, the DH is much better. Kind of counter-intuitive, isn't it? Anyways, the splash damage from the regular rocket launcher is just so much more useful in more situations, so 9 times out of 10, I'll use it.
what a constructive post!
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I use both but slightly prefer the Rocket Launcher.
Heck earlier today when the blackmesa server died I went on a 2fort map and used Direct Hit and was doing really well with it. By 'really well' I mean I was going around shooting people in the air with it and able to mini crit them too. After about 30 minutes of doing this I got a Sergant Drills Hat
.
Heck earlier today when the blackmesa server died I went on a 2fort map and used Direct Hit and was doing really well with it. By 'really well' I mean I was going around shooting people in the air with it and able to mini crit them too. After about 30 minutes of doing this I got a Sergant Drills Hat
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I stick to the normal launcher, splash damage = priceless! And I can do some sick airshots with it
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thanks i value contributing to threads.
But srsly normal is 10 times better then the direct hit.
I like using the normal rocket launcher.
It's not that the DH is bad for situations I believe, it's just your play style. I used the DH all the time back when it came out, and that's how I came to have soldier as my second best class. The DH is amazing to blow away enemies quickly and efficiently, with the speed of DH you shouldn't have to worry about splash damage as you'd be able to hit the enemy with your rockets head on much easier.
I just prefer the original weapon over it, same as spy, I sucked at spy for forever due to the cloak and dagger and dead ringer's way of making me less aware and quick, normal tool works and makes me play much better.
It's not that the DH is bad for situations I believe, it's just your play style. I used the DH all the time back when it came out, and that's how I came to have soldier as my second best class. The DH is amazing to blow away enemies quickly and efficiently, with the speed of DH you shouldn't have to worry about splash damage as you'd be able to hit the enemy with your rockets head on much easier.
I just prefer the original weapon over it, same as spy, I sucked at spy for forever due to the cloak and dagger and dead ringer's way of making me less aware and quick, normal tool works and makes me play much better.
![=[Ga]= AutoDMC](https://gravatar.com/avatar/12a9fc53f7faa5623bdd75f9aec2029ad6f6c6571bc1bd1d6ba045600ac8689d?s=96){kind=avatar}
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Apparently not!
Now I'll admit, I play TF2 quite differently than many people do. It comes from three things:
- I'm not good at First Person Shooters.
- I love supporting roles.
- I'm not obsessed with points.
It's true. I only beat Half Life 1 because I used god mode on the final boss. It took somewhere around 100 tries for me to get through that storage room with all the special ops people in it (again, first run, god mode). Although I eventually figured it out, 12 years after the game was released, and felt a bit smug. So I'm not the best FPS player in the world. I've come to accept that. It's why I'm an Engineer. I look at the map, pick where would be a good place for a lot of players to die, then place a sentry. Makin' Bacon.
I'm also obsessed with supporting roles. When I was in Marching Band, I picked Tuba because it plays the music background. In D&D, I'm always the Cleric or, when I hate the people I play with, Bard. When I play Magic TG, I build decks where the cards build off each other. And when I play TF2 I like to support the team. Helpful Engineer, Ninja Medic, and Damage Spam Soldier. I don't mind playing second fiddle, and in fact, it was TF2's "kill assist" points that kept me here. You don't get points for helping in CSS or DOD or CoD.
But with that said, I'm not obsessed with points. In fact, I rib my team if I'm in the top 5 on the leaderboard... that should not happen. I'm not worried about not making tons of points, if by not doing so I'm somehow helping the team in their efforts.
And this leads around to my rebuttal of your paragraph, Dreadmaker.
For those of you ladies who have fallen asleep, NOW would be a good time to man up and continue reading. And get a haircut, hippie! -- Soldier
The assumption is that only by actually killing people are you "assisting your team" toward their goal. However, I propose that anything which provides an opening to your team to get advantage is a help. In reference to my three qualities above, this has led me to really, really appreciate the RPG launcher.
However, I have noticed that most players are scared to press forward with anything except a full bar of health. They'll spam medic, or yell for a little help here, or veer off to grab a health kit, and in this case, the Soldier is a great deturrent. For mini rushes of a few people, especially groups lacking nearby medics, hitting the squad with a few rockets, juggling them a bit, can completely destroy their momentum as they rush for health.
Also, in association with "Shock and Awe", jostling up a group of enemies and causing them to divert their attention from the task at hand to dispatching the annoying Soldier can also do wonders.
Distracting a heavy, or a Medic, or an Engineer for 10 seconds could be the difference between breaking through the defense and failing to do so.
These little skirmishes are ignored by most players, who are too busy attempting to organize a rush to harass the other players. But it's my favorite game mode. As Engineer I build suicide forward sentries. As Spy, I harass the middle range. And as Soldier, I rain surprise death from above upon my foes.
Again, this strategy is pretty useless without a supportive team, but this isn't Loaner Fortress 2. A bad team will fall apart on their own; they don't need my help to do it... in which case I'll be at the top of the leaderboard.
A rush or a push can do wonders for CLAIMING ground, but it's the skirmishes and distractions that keep you from LOSING it. And the DH simply doesn't have the distraction qualities of a rocket launcher with large splash radius. Again, the goal isn't always to kill (although I won't say no) but to distract, harass, shock, and awe.
TL;DR
See above.
