Intelligent Weapon Discussion #4: Pyro's Secondary

Which weapon do you prefer to use in the Pyro's Secondary Slot?

  • Shotgun

    Points: 39 58.2%
  • Flaregun

    Points: 28 41.8%

  • Total voters
    67
shotgun is much better, its easier to aim, easy to kill burning enemies, bullets aren't effected by gravity, shoots faster, is able to be used underwater, great for killing people up close, and a lot more.

The pyro isnt meant to be a long range class, which makes the flare gun even more useless. besides, I can always reflect the flares that are shot at me :)

AU CONTRAIRE!

(I need a theme song. Like the PRICE LINE NEGOTIATOR!)

I have a dilemma. I really love my Engineer, and so branching off into other classes is a difficult decision to make. However, plenty of engineers have this idea of a "flamethrower sentry." This idea is stupid. However, it gives me an excuse to play Pyro. Because, you know, I'm just playtesting the flamethrower sentry. Really.

The assumption of most people is that Pyro is (1) Only W+M1, and (2) A short range class. You can see this in the quoted comment, or a few of the other comments. In response I have to say (1) you've obviously never played against TC Vinsky, and (2) the Sniper is a long range class... and he has Jarate and Huntsman. So shut it.

The Flare Gun makes the Pyro viable in the medium to long range. This is very important in open maps, like Turbine, where your ambush opportunities can be low, and line of sights are long. The shotty is a barely-medium-range weapon, both flame thrower options are short range, and all melee is always short range. This loadout limits you only to enemies you can physically touch, unless you're perfectly happy at getting one-exactly-one pellet in your enemy.

The Flare Gun takes some getting used to, but lucky two other classes provide the skills required: Soldier and Medic. The Flaregun is a rocket that follows the needlegun curve. With practice, you can easily flaregun unsuspecting bad guys. At range, you can ignite them. You can crit them. It's great.

Also a Source Engine note: the shotgun uses the bullet hit boxes, which follow the shape of the class closely... but the flaregun uses the flamethrower hitbox, which is a cube that fits the class inside. This means, especially for lanky classes like Spah, Sniper, and Scout (Hmm. The S-class), you just need to get near, not get a headshot. Especially when shooting at angles (see: Axis Aligned Bounding Box), you get even more "hittable square footage". This actually makes the flaregun EASIER to get a hit with.

Finally, see my argument for the Rocket Launcher. The Pyro fills a similar niche as the Soldier; your job is to blow apart any type of coordinated offensive, and in this case, a flamethrower is even more awesome than splash damage; you can ignite a group of enemies, all who suddenly forget their well laid plans and Leeroy Jenkins straight toward the nearest medkit or Medic. Suicide Pyros destroy more coordinated attacks than anything else.

However, the Pyro has suffered a series of nerfs over the months, and it's much harder to do a serious suicide pyro. Burn time is down, hit boxes are shorter, damage is reduced... they've done everything except give you a 1% chance of exploding for every bullet you take (hey, now there's an idea...). Demos might get the QQ, but Pyros feel the nerf pain.

The Flare Gun gives you your... flare... back. Because a rush is usually linear (everyone is running a predictable line) and you can ignite a few people from the other side of the map, and add chaos to their plans. Always good.

In conclusion, if you're on a map with lots of water*, or lots of tight Pyro-friendly corridors (I'm looking at you Teufort), then the Shotgun actually makes you a stronger class. In ALL OTHER situations, the ability to "reach out and ignite someone" is a total upgrade to the pyro. Your enemies have learned to stay just out of your range and make fun of you; fight back by tossing a bit of flame into their face from 50 paces.

TL;DR

Hudda hudda hudda. Haroooooooooodda dudda hudda. Hrmph. Huddada HUDDA huuuu. Hud hadda hud ah HUY! Hudda.

* Might I suggest that a class that depends on flame is not a good fit on a water map? I'd file this under UR DOIN IT WRONG. Like trying to Mini-gun snipe as a Heavy... you're not really playing to your strength, now are you?
 
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You make some very good points... now I want to go try out the flaregun (although im not sure if I still have one)

anyways I'd like to make a suggestion:

there needs to be a function to put all of AutoDMC's and Dreadmaker's posts in spoiler boxes so people can just skip them without scrolling down forever.

P.S. I still like shotgun better. and Water maps. and Suicide.
 
there needs to be a function to put all of AutoDMC's and Dreadmaker's posts in spoiler boxes so people can just skip them without scrolling down forever.


As it turns out, I've tried; it doesn't really work. it just covers an equivalent area in black, as you can see here. Not the best solution, because instead of text wall, you just get black wall, AND it's more annoying to read. Oh well. You asked, so I can't really deny you.


As for an actual response... I don't really have one. I don't have the experience with the pyro to actively advocate for both sides, and I can't even play devil's advocate, because both sides, shotgun AND flare are being represented admirably. I agree with most of what auto said, and rather than spend a long time fighting to pull together an argument for the sake of pulling together an argument, I'm just going to let this one go. Next discussion, when classes I know more about are involved, I'll put in some further cents.

However, for now... you all get a break from one half of the ?ber-posting brigade (that's what I'm going to start calling Auto and I now, because for the last several posts that we've been involved in together, we've been collectively asked to post tl;dr's, not separately.


?BER-POSTING BRIGADE... AWAY!
 
Okay my two cents.

Shotgun usually and Pyro is my second most played class (60+ hours). I like the shotgun because if I'm a pyro, I'm not satisfied until someone is dead. Those silly burning spies the drop into the acid on BM to put themselves out they are going to get a barrel full of shotgun as I dive after them. Some may say that is over-committing, but I feel it is necessary.

As Auto DMC stated water and a fire class don't mix, but sometimes it's inevitable, for instance falling in the middle of 2fort and you are completely defenseless except for your trusty axtinguisher (mostly useless especially underwater) I feel a Shotty is more multipurpose and is a better alternative when one runs out of pyro fuel.

Those that can actually use the flaregun well are few and far between. As with the previous discussion. The DH and the Flaregun are great alternatives but require more skill/luck to use them effectively. I'm not the best shot so I stick with my shotty.
 
there needs to be a function to put all of AutoDMC's and Dreadmaker's posts in spoiler boxes so people can just skip them without scrolling down forever.

You caught me. I don't really type my posts. Most are generated Lorem Ipsum, something I learned in Graphic Design land, to fill text. I keep waiting to get my One Billionth Word forum achievement. *sigh*.

...and Suicide.

Suicide used to be my favorite Pyro tactic. Maybe it was cheap, but I knew if I could last a few seconds I take 2 or 3 of the other guys with me. Alas, the recent nerfs pretty much deactivate that :(

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I use flare for two reasons.

1. I never play maps where water is really an issue.

2. The feel good sensation. Skill crits always feel great even if they don't kill and the shotty doesn't have a taunt kill.
 
I thoroughly enjoy the flare gun, but that's partially because I'm decent at weapons that require that type of aim. It's hilarious to harass snipers with it, or to send a volley of flares at a charging Heavy. It tends to be less effective than the shotgun, but the lulz factor is great.
 
i personaly cant pick between shotgun and flaregun, but i voted shotgun cuz i dont have a flaregun, but i find the shotgun great for picking off enemies outside of the flamethrower's range, though flare gun can get enemies out of thier range but as a bad trait of the flaregun is the the flares can be evaded by just side stepping, ima just get to the conclusion, i cant find a time and place where ether weapon would dominate the other

ps: i like cydnaquil so i guess ima pyro at heart XD (on pokemon)
 
Since I'm the first one to vote Flaregun...

I like using my flaregun because it's more powerful at longer ranges than the shotgun. It's good for harassing Snipers, Heavies, enemies running away. Plus, the mini-crit/crit on already-burning enemies is awesome.

That said, if the other team is heavy on the pyros, I'll switch back to the shotgun.

Agreed completely. Also, I'm fairly decent with the Flare Gun and if you can be accurate with it (Makes me think of the huntsman almost) then you can get a lot of crits.
 
I think there is some kind of scare factor with the flare gun, actually with the whole pyro class, because when you see a pyro with a shotgun at long range, you're not really careful because first) the damage output is not high at long range, second) you can run away without problem. But with the flaregun, if you know how to use the lucksman, which mean leading your target, you're good with the flare gun, but the reason why people might be scared is because if you hit a scout that is already in a fight, he will run away because he will take 60 damage over 10 second which is half of his health and can kill him while he's in a fight, so he'll run away allowing you to get closer. This works on many classes like medic, who will sometime leave the heavy to get some health instead of dying. That's why I use the flaregun
 

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