Eying new PC components (H/SDD, GPU & CPU)

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runo

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So back in July I wound up spending just shy of my budget of $1250 in computer parts to build my first PC. I didn't do much research into what goes where, I just made sure the parts worked (mostly) and ordered away to build it. All seemed to go well, until I realized that my budget limited how nice of a processor I could include in the build, stuck me with only one hard drive, and of my own mistaken accord, I got two GTX 460s to SLI.... on a motherboard that does not allow for SLI. Lul.

So, by April I'm going to have about $500 to blow on PC parts (except for the data hard drive I'm ordering this week), all from cash from my parents, grandma and aunt and uncle, and probably my job. The plan for the data hard drive is to throw my Win7 HP 64-bit install (and Google Chrome) onto a 60GB Vertex II SSD (or any other SSD) and leave about 20-30% unused for insane boot times, then to use my current HDD, a 500GB Samsung SpinPoint to hold my games. Later on I wouldn't mind nabbing anything from a 1TB to 2TB HDD to keep my FRAPS vids, screenshots, music files and all that.

The core components I'd like to replace are the two EVGA GTX 460s -- since I can only use ONE since my mobo is SLI-incompatible, I'm interested in getting a hold of a single beefy graphics card or Crossfiring two good cards. I love ATi, especially Sapphire and XFX, but am not picky and will go for nVidia too -- EVGA being my preferred brand. I don't know what's "top dog" for GPUs nowadays, but maybe a 6970 by Sapphire or XFX?

I also want to go from dual core to either triple or quad core chipsets. They have to be AMD processors, as my mobo is a pretty nice AMD board that I'm not looking to replace. I was eying the Phenom II X4 965 or 970 (both Black Editions); from what I hear, the 965BE is superior to the 970BE because of the unlocked multiplier? I could also be convinced to look into a triple core. NO SIX-CORES unless your argumenet is absolutely moving. Looking to spend a max of $230-$250 here... if I do at all, since I haven't bothered trying to overclock my CPU to see if I need a new prcoessor at all. Not that I did in the first place -- 3.5GHz is nothing to sneeze at -- so it may not be worth it to upgrade here.



P.S. I won't actually be ordering the CPU or GPU until April when I get my birthday cash and a steady flow of money from my job, but I want to get my hands on the SSD as soon as possible.







For the curious, my current build (keep in mind this isn't $1200 of parts IN it, as I ordered a few peripherals ... and not all the parts would go in, like the EVGA SLI bridge I intended to use for SLI 460s):

Win7 Home Premium 64-bit / Cooler Master Storm Scout / Samsung SpinPoint 500GB HDD / Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner / EVGA GTX 460 768MB (Fermi) / Gigabyte AMD 890GX Motherboard / Corsair XMS3 4GB DDR3 1600 memory / AMD Phenom II X2 555 BE / SeaSonic X650 650W
//
Logitech G35 Headset / Logitech G510 Keyboard / R.A.T. 7 Mouse / 24" ASUS 1080 WS-LCD Monitor
 
Im pretty sure you can run SLI. There is a hack to enable it. Google and you will probably find the answer/solution.

As for CPU, you can picked up a used 6 core for like $200 flat and the benefit is you will know if its a good overclocker or not.

OCZ Agility 2 will be fine for OS booting. I recently got a Vertex 2 which is a bit better than the agility 2 for $100 60gb and it boots my windows in like 10 sec after POST and i have room to put games on it, so far bad company 2 and CS:S and i have like 14gb to spare. I also have microsoft office and stuff on it.
 
@PewPew: It seems like the 60GB Agility 2 and 60GB Vertex 2 are the same price on NewEgg, at $129.99 for either buy. I thought the Vx2 was the better of the two, though?

@Reflex: I tried that, but oddly it doesn't list my 890GX on the list of supported mobos. I tried it anyway and when I go to reboot and boot into SLI mode, it fails to startup and takes me to repair... so I have to reboot again, not in SLI mode. :<
 
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I would go out and get a different case, the Scout is a okay mid tower but is very cramped, and doesn't have much room for expandability. I'd take a look at the 922M or even a 912 (very good budget case).

It all depends on the games you play; I'd say 85% of games these days are GPU bound, so you will get significant increase in frame rates by buying higher end video cards. The last 15% (games like SC2, Civ 5) will benefit from more cores.

Honestly to save money I would try to unlock that 555 you have into a quad core, and get a 6950 and unlock the BIOS into 6970, many benchmarks show 2 6970s beat 580. See if you can sell older components to supplement the costs of new stuff.

GTX 460 is a good entry high end video card. The only things that make it choke is 1080p gaming with everything cranked up. Temperatures are very good and far surpassed my aging 4870/4890 and outperforms my GTX 260. But what it lacks is frame buffer, as shown in games like Metro 2033, it is impossible to play high resolution and crank up the settings. You need a card with over 1 GB VRAM, so basically a 470/480 and their new 5xx replacements and like a 2 GB 5870/5970.
 
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runo said:
@PewPew: It seems like the 60GB Agility 2 and 60GB Vertex 2 are the same price on NewEgg, at $129.99 for either buy. I thought the Vx2 was the better of the two, though?

@Reflex: I tried that, but oddly it doesn't list my 890GX on the list of supported mobos. I tried it anyway and when I go to reboot and boot into SLI mode, it fails to startup and takes me to repair... so I have to reboot again, not in SLI mode. :<
Click to expand...

The Vertex 2 is the better drive. It is able to read/write more times before failure. I have a Vertex 2 120GB drive, and I highly recommend them. :)
 
Tsunade said:
I would go out and get a different case, the Scout is a okay mid tower but is very cramped, and doesn't have much room for expandability. I'd take a look at the 922M or even a 912 (very good budget case).

It all depends on the games you play; I'd say 85% of games these days are GPU bound, so you will get significant increase in frame rates by buying higher end video cards. The last 15% (games like SC2, Civ 5) will benefit from more cores.

Honestly to save money I would try to unlock that 555 you have into a quad core, and get a 6950 and unlock the BIOS into 6970, many benchmarks show 2 6970s beat 580. See if you can sell older components to supplement the costs of new stuff.

GTX 460 is a good entry high end video card. The only things that make it choke is 1080p gaming with everything cranked up. Temperatures are very good and far surpassed my aging 4870/4890 and outperforms my GTX 260. But what it lacks is frame buffer, as shown in games like Metro 2033, it is impossible to play high resolution and crank up the settings. You need a card with over 1 GB VRAM, so basically a 470/480 and their new 5xx replacements and like a 2 GB 5870/5970.
Click to expand...

how would a case help him at all?
 
Sorry guys, got sucked into real life and then DCUO ate what life I had left. lol

@Tsunade: To reiterate Reflex's point here, I'm not sure what the problem is with my case... thus far, it has me very well and holds everything I need it to. Granted it has a relatively modest amount of room for expansion, but I don't think I need to replace it at the time? D:

I do agree with you on your other points though. Almost all of my actively-played games are either a. too old to utilize multiple cores or threads, or b. new and have gone for the GPU-intensive route. However, I would be VERY interested in unlocking the other two cores on my 555BE. To Google!
EDIT: FRAK!!! My motherboard is the Gigabyte 890GX ... and I just realized that it is not a motherboard with ACC suppor.; I don't think I can still unlock the other two cores if my motherboard does not have ACC... or can I? Halp pl0x. D:

I do want to nab a new video card eventually, maybe in a few months. I only have one 460 which, when you consider that the rest of my rig is pretty nice (especially once I get the other two cores on my 555 unlocked), seems almost... 'good, but not good enough', if that makes sense. I do game on 1080p and try to run everything cranked to max, but I think a good video card to take some of the stress off of my CPU and RAM may not be a bad idea in the future. I'd rather go with AMD chipsets with my graphics for the obvious reason of my processor being AMD-based as well. Maybe a 6850 unlocked into an overclocked 6870?










@mad pistol: I'm eying the 60GB Vertex 2 as all I want to do with it is put my copy of Windows 7 on it (...and maybe Chrome), and let it act as my boot drive. I have room for a few HDDs in my case so I was thinking of keeping the Samsung SpinPoint F4 for all my other games, since it has a capacity of 500GB, and then adding a THIRD hard drive -- maybe a 1TB Barracuda or a Caviar Black? -- to store all my stuff like my program files.

As I understand it: since my boot drive is going to be an SSD, my games will also be a lot faster and smoother since the OS is that much faster and smoother. I hope that's the case, even if I only intend to put one or two actual games on the boot drive. I want at least 20% of it to be free space, of course.
 
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The 890 GX might come with a core unlocker, but I doubt it. My 790 GX did not. You're gambling with that Phenom II X2 555BE. You're betting on the fact that you'll be able to unlock 2 more cores, when in reality, you may not be able to.

This is what you got: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103846

For $10 more here's what you could have gotten: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103871

The Athlon II X4 640 is a superior chip to the Phenom II X2 555. Why? Because it has 4 cores ready to go. The only difference is the lack of L3 cache. However, you don't really need L3 cache on a dual core CPU. It's an asset in some instances on quad cores, but for dual cores, it's almost useless. However, that Athlon II X4 640 will run circles around the Phenom II X2 555 in games like Battlefield Bad Company 2. Quad cores are essential for gaming computers nowadays, even if they're slightly weaker than their corresponding dual cores.

Also, trying to unlock your 6850 to a 6870 is a BAD idea. They are physically different cards, and those SPU's are disabled for a reason (bad yields more than likely). The only cards that I know of right now that are being successfully unlocked to higher cards without many issues are the 6950's being unlocked to 6970's. Physically, though, the 6950 and 6970 are virtually the same card, so really, unlocking it isn't all that risky.

You're squandering your money by betting the bank on unlockable products. I'm all for tweaking, but you're always taking a huge risk by getting a gimped product and expecting to get it into a higher state than it already is. This is a case of "You get what you pay for" and if you can't afford it, save your money.



As for the SSD, it will make EVERYTHING on your computer smoother. It won't make it process faster, but it will definitely load faster and be snappier than a conventional HDD, even if your games are on the data HDD. Having those OS files on tap makes the system far more responsive.
 
mad pistol said:
The 890 GX might come with a core unlocker, but I doubt it. My 790 GX did not. You're gambling with that Phenom II X2 555BE. You're betting on the fact that you'll be able to unlock 2 more cores, when in reality, you may not be able to.

This is what you got: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103846

For $10 more here's what you could have gotten: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103871

The Athlon II X4 640 is a superior chip to the Phenom II X2 555. Why? Because it has 4 cores ready to go. The only difference is the lack of L3 cache. However, you don't really need L3 cache on a dual core CPU. It's an asset in some instances on quad cores, but for dual cores, it's almost useless. However, that Athlon II X4 640 will run circles around the Phenom II X2 555 in games like Battlefield Bad Company 2. Quad cores are essential for gaming computers nowadays, even if they're slightly weaker than their corresponding dual cores.

Also, trying to unlock your 6850 to a 6870 is a BAD idea. They are physically different cards, and those SPU's are disabled for a reason (bad yields more than likely). The only cards that I know of right now that are being successfully unlocked to higher cards without many issues are the 6950's being unlocked to 6970's. Physically, though, the 6950 and 6970 are virtually the same card, so really, unlocking it isn't all that risky.

You're squandering your money by betting the bank on unlockable products. I'm all for tweaking, but you're always taking a huge risk by getting a gimped product and expecting to get it into a higher state than it already is. This is a case of "You get what you pay for" and if you can't afford it, save your money.



As for the SSD, it will make EVERYTHING on your computer smoother. It won't make it process faster, but it will definitely load faster and be snappier than a conventional HDD, even if your games are on the data HDD. Having those OS files on tap makes the system far more responsive.
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1. 555 has l3 cache, unlocked multi, not crap OCing, and a 80ish percent chance of unlock

2. 6850's DO NOT UNLOCK!!!!!!!!! only 6950s
 
DERP, that was my bad. I meant the 6950, but missed the '9' key and never noticed the typo. Twice. >.>
 
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I don't know? Those SSD's are nice but still pricey and there reliability factor is usually 3 years and then they pretty much die. I would recommend a 10,000 rpm mechanica drive like 74 gb. Thats more than enough for a windows install. And there just as fast but more reliable than SSD and lasts longer too. A SSD will probably be 1 to 2 milliseconds faster which you probably not notice in boot-up times.

They are getting cheaper though but there nothing new. They've been around for about 20+ years now and they can't seem to perfect them yet.

Your best bet is to go with a 10,000 rpm 74gb and 1 terrabyte drive for all your games and other computer software.

But thats my opinion.

Peace.
 
They can't seem to perfect the mechanical drive either...a millisecond faster? No one would waste the money if it gave no performance benefits...
 
Cigarjohn said:
I don't know? Those SSD's are nice but still pricey and there reliability factor is usually 3 years and then they pretty much die. I would recommend a 10,000 rpm mechanica drive like 74 gb. Thats more than enough for a windows install. And there just as fast but more reliable than SSD and lasts longer too. A SSD will probably be 1 to 2 milliseconds faster which you probably not notice in boot-up times.

They are getting cheaper though but there nothing new. They've been around for about 20+ years now and they can't seem to perfect them yet.

Your best bet is to go with a 10,000 rpm 74gb and 1 terrabyte drive for all your games and other computer software.

But thats my opinion.

Peace.
Click to expand...

I love Western Digital, but with all due respect, why would I ever buy a Raptor (even the mechanical drives)? I understand they're a bit faster than 7200 RPM hard drives, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea of spending over $200 on a 300GB drive with only marginally faster seek times over a 2TB Caviar Black @ 7200 RPM. It's the same price, but I get all the space I need several times over out of that Caviar Black ... and it's not so much slower that I NEED to blow that much money on that little space. I guess it's just me being silly and not knowing much about the benefits of Raptors. D:

See, it's not so much the space that's bothering me; it's the fact that I, like every gamer ever, want raw performance and face-melting speeds. For ten bucks more than a 300GB Raptor I can get a 120GB Vertex 2. What it lacks in storage size, it makes up for in seek times and thus cuts down on boot-up time and how long it takes for programs and applications to load, which is what I want the drive for. You seem to be misinterpreting what I intend to use the drive for -- as far as I understand, the SSD will vastly outperform a mechanical drive in EVERY category except size. Size, however, is not the issue since I'm just using it as my boot drive, and for my data drive(s) there are better bang-for-my-buck offers out there, IMHO.

I'm not adverse to the idea of utilizing a Raptor, however, and I could very well be getting in line for a fact-punch to the face right about now. It's just, to my knowledge, Raptor drives' performance points do not outweigh its biggest flaws -- the cost and the small size.
 
the next time you build one hit me up with your budget and plans and ill send you a list of the best stuff. then you wont have to deal with having the wrong parts
 
No one knows how long SSD's will last, yet. But, if the onboard electronics continue working, an SSD will easily outlast a spinning Hard Drive. Solid state products will always be more durable than mechanical ones. For example, a Hard Drive would be destroyed if you physically dropped it more than a couple feet. An SSD would still work.

Also, if you think SSD's aren't that much faster than a Raptor, guess again. I've got a video here:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw2g4bIu03M[/ame]

Sorry, but no mechanical drive outside of extreme RAID0 arrays can match the performance of an SSD. It's just not physically possible. As long as Hard Drives have moving platters and data heads, they will be inferior for writing/reading data.
 
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Lawl, his windows booted faster than it took for my dorm internets to stream that video.
 
Have the 60GB SSD Vertex 2 which has my OS and most Programs outside of games. When I ahve the cash will be getting a SATA3 SSD 120+GB for my Games to run that much smoother. And SATA3 should look a lot nicer for a SSD when it comes to read write speeds. Or else if it doesnt I will get a PCI-E SSD which will blow anything out of the water!
 
To the kinda above posts;

The Phenom II X2 benchmark near or just a bit lower than the Athlon II X4s. You also get the possibility of an unlocked quad core. Phenom = high performance, Athlons = mainstream. Athlon X4 is average Joe schmoe's quad core who doesn't game but does multi-threaded stuff while Phenom are for overclockers and enthusiasts. And many of the Phenom II X2 cpus unlocked, I have personally unlocked 5/5 of the builds I have done ranging from 550, 555, 720,740 and I forgot the last one.

The 6950 yes has dual BIOS and is unlockable as I have done so on my Visiontek 6950. Be wary though as people have caught onto the unlockable card, AMD will be shipping 6950 that are locked starting Feb 1st.

Correct, nobody knows the life span of SSD but they do measure MTBF. But that also sure doesn't take into account logical failures. Also OCZ had an alarming amount of SSDs that were having issues just months after ownership, thankfully both of mine have been fine. Wait for the next generation SSD or even longer down the road, G3 Intel SSD are coming soon, as with SF-2500 based SSD later this year.

As for the case in my earlier post, each case has it's own airflow characteristics. No offense meant but the Scout case is bad for cable management, no space to work on anything at all. And if you don't get a modular PSU you get cables crammed everywhere, not good for airflow.
 
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