TF2 Weekly: Scout's Primary (FAN vs. Scattergun vs. Shortstop)

Kamon

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TF2 Weekly​
Force-a-Nature vs. Scattergun vs. Shortstop​
Monday, January 24th of 2011​
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Hey everyone, it's Kamon here, and I'm here to resurrect my TF2 Weekly series. The original threads were an attempt to post an overview and personal opinion on certain weapons, and see how they fared in popularity. I got a little too busy to continue it, but now I can no longer resist with all of these weapons. So, my first TF2 Weekly of 2011, we're going to focus on the Scout's Primary Weapons.


The Scattergun
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Ammo loaded: 6
Ammo carried: 32
Point Blank: 85-105 (297 DPS)
Attack Interval: 0.64 seconds
Overview:
The Scattergun is the default primary for the Scout, and a weapon every avid TF2 player has either held or been on the receiving end of. It has a large spread while firing and high damage rampoff, meaning it'll do little to enemies that are far away while destroying anybody who happens to be in your face. It also carries 6 rounds, which means you can deliver quite a bit of damage to someone before you scurry off. It isn't the quickest weapon to fire in the game, firing every 0.64 seconds, but it should get the job done.

The Scattergun is a great general weapon for the Scout, who is usually ducking around corners and trying to get the jump on enemies before they can spot him, while being a fairly decent all-around weapon. It is plagued by a slow reload time, requiring about 4 seconds to completely reload with all 6 rounds.

I personally find that the Scatter Gun works best on maps where you have to get up and close to your opponents at times, but are otherwise forced to keep on the run in order to stay alive--something that should be true to most Scouts.

As for accompanying secondary weapons, the Pistol provides you with a go-to option when you don't have time to reload--which happens a lot. Crit-a-cola will allow you to deliver substantial damage to enemies you get the jump on, while Mad Milk will give you some survival options, although your best bet is usually to flee in most cases. Bonk Energy Drink is usually situational and doesn't depend on your primary.

Let me just say now that I'm not going to focus on any of the Melee weapons, as none of them make any substantial difference in play style with any of the primary or secondary weapons, with the exception of the Sandman--which I find does best with the FAN below. Otherwise, I've got nothing to say about them.

The Force-A-Nature
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Ammo loaded: 2
Ammo carried: 32
Point Blank: ~92-113 damage
Attack Interval: 0.4267 seconds
Overview:
The first unlockable for the Scout, the Force-A-Nature, is an entirely different beast from the Scattergun on its own. While it is similar in both appearance and function--firing a spray of pellets in an even wider spread than your first primary weapon, it plays quite differently. First and foremost, the Force-A-Nature's main function is to deliver a one-two punch (two shots per magzine) even faster than the Scattergun, while also offering a faster reload. It also allows you to propel enemies away from you when blasting them at a close range, as well as giving you a nice tricky third jump when pointed at the floor.

At the cost of damage, surely, right? Not quite. While each individual pellet in the FAN may do less than those of the Scattergun, it actually fires a couple more pellets--meaning, at point blank, you will do more damage than with the Scattergun. Of course, you're still doing even less damage at a distance due to the increased spread size, making the Pistol a fantastic secondary to accompany the FAN.

The FAN's secondary feature, the fabled triple jump, is sometimes good enough reason to take it over the Scattergun alone. It can allow the Scout to truely do what he does best--scout the battlements--and get to places that normally only Soldiers and Demomen dreamed, but in shorter times and receiving less damage.

The knockback function of the FAN is a double-edged sword; While you will knock an enemy back and possible throw them off guard, you won't be able to deliver two point-blank shots in succession usually. However, this can sometimes assist you in an emergency escape, and can give you the ability to knock enemies off ledges or off of a point.

I find the FAN works best in maps where you can duck around corners, take shortcuts, and get close and personal with enemies from above, behind, or wherever those shortcuts take you.

As for secondaries, the pistol's fantastic damage rate and the FAN's lack of long-range damage make them go hand in hand very well. Crit-a-cola may work well with the hit-and-run strategy, coupled with the pistol. Mad Milk's slow wind up throw makes it an unappealing mix, and Bonk, as usual, is situational.

The Shortstop

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Ammo loaded: 4
Ammo carried: 36
Point Blank: ~69 - 72
Attack Interval: 0.36 seconds
Overview:
The Scout's first craftable primary is the Shortstop, which despite looking a little more Secondary than usual, IS in fact a replacement for the Scattergun. It has slightly less damage ramp-up than the Scattergun and FAN, but it makes up for this with incredible accuracy, more balanced damage, incredibly quick clip reload equal to that of the Pistol, and a MUCH smaller cone of fire. The Shortstop used to have a slowdown effect, but it was removed in early December.*

One of the most notable things about the Shortstop is the reload speed. As soon as you finish a clip, you're probably going to have slapped another in and be firing off some more rounds before you know it. This lets the Scout not only fair decently in a close-range game, but the increased accuracy and lower spread allow you to do substantial damage in a mid-range game similar to that with the pistol. It doesn't fire quite as fast as the FAN, but it fires much faster than the Scattergun.

Notably, the Shortstop isn't going to deal as much damage at point blank, and each shots will generally do less than those of the Scattergun. Again, this is at close-range; this weapon encourages the Scout to hang back and hammer away at enemies where he's at a safer distance. Consider that the Scout is a rather fragile class, this isn't such a bad thing after all.

The Shortstop is part of the Milkman set, which has a benefit of giving the Scout 25 more max health, putting him at 150 HP. This makes him more difficult to kill when combined with his improved range-game and the Mad Milk secondary, not to mention how agile he already is.

Like I mentioned above, the Shortstop works best in situations where you can roam a little more freely and fire at a distance. If you're getting too close and personal, and you're being given ample time to reload your weapons, try switching back to the Scattergun or FAN. Otherwise, I find myself using the Shortstop more often than either of them.

As far as secondaries go, the first thing I should mention is the Pistol is rather off-limits this time, because the Shortstop shares ammo with the Pistol. This makes it rather unappealing. Crit-a-cola is a very appealing secondary, however, as it does give you ample power even against far away enemies, and you should have an easier time avoiding rockets and the likes at the distance. Mad Milk helps you stay alive, and with the Milk Man set, puts the Scout at an entirely new level of annoying.


That's all I really have to say about the Scout's primaries right now. If you agree or disagree with any of this, or just have any other comments, or you just want to discuss the Scout's primaries, OR you have a suggestion for what I should take a look at next--feel free to post in the thread.

Thanks to the folks at Team Fortress Wiki for the statistics.

*Thanks to everyone who contributed in fixing my errors!
 
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If you're going to use Crit-A-Cola, the Shortstop is, by far, the best weapon to use.

I'd say Short Stop and Scattergun are about the same, depending on skill level, but the FAN has been next to useless ever since they revamped the knockback mechanism.

Also, the Short Stop's slowdown mechanism has actually never worked properly and Valve has yet to fix it, which is a good thing.
 
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I'd say Short Stop and Scattergun are about the same, depending on skill level, but the FAN has been next to useless ever since they revamped the knockback mechanism.

It seems that you have no played against good FaN Scouts in a while. :P The might not be able to shoot you through the map with the KB like before, but that just makes it easier to get both their shots in you before you fly too far.

I'm in no way defending the FaN. Annoying piece of weaponry still. Just pointing out that those who know how to play FaN Scout are still ever so annoying.
 
It seems that you have no played against good FaN Scouts in a while. :P The might not be able to shoot you through the map with the KB like before, but that just makes it easier to get both their shots in you before you fly too far.

I'm in no way defending the FaN. Annoying piece of weaponry still. Just pointing out that those who know how to play FaN Scout are still ever so annoying.

I am one of those who know how to play the FAN.

Ask anyone in the 2Fort servers who've seen me play with it.

It's still rubbish.

And it's rubbish BECAUSE of the knockback, not because there is less knockback. The Scout is built for quick kills, the knockback makes this near impossible unless it's in a small room. It went from its original incarnation as a mechanic for easier follow-up shots to a gimmick that does nothing useful for the Scout's purposes.
 
There's the difference then. I didn't say you should 100% commit to one weapon. In most cases the Scattergun is the most beneficial one to use. I dont think I even have to justify that. Kind of obvious. Now you're saying FaN is better at tighter places where you can surprise and flank opponents. Well, 2Fort is kind of like that, but maybe a bit too tight. You can get into peoples faces, but chances are everyone else will flood over you right after.

At this point I'll point out one obvious thing about playing Scout that you do know. Picking your kills. See a Medic? Sure, I'll jump him and kill him with two good meatshots and run away before the person they were healing sees you. See a straggler in some push? That's an easy kill for you. So yeah. You do go for those weaker classes and anything that isn't being healed, since you kill them fast. Unless you are of course a god of scouting. Then you can do whatever you please, but that's an extreme example.

This seems more of a ramble than a good reply. FaN has always done one thing especially well. Being annoying. Whether it is for the user or the one it is being used on is irrelevant. If you do not manage to kill someone with the FaN, they'll be nearly dead at least. Easy picking for your teammates if they're near. If you use FaN, you should exclusively be hit-n-run anyways, so there shouldn't be instances where you think "if I dont kill him NOW, he'll turn and kill me right away." You shoot, run away to reload, then maybe pop back to finish them off if you dare.
 
There's a few tactics scouts are good for. It's important to pick the proper targets, thanks to the scout speed you'll be solo 75% of the time, engaging in long fights gives time for enemy team mates to arrive.
Hit & Run and Circle strafing scouts, those are the most effective kinds. Now think about it.
FaN is only good for hit and run tactics, and even then, you won't be 1 hitting a soldier. A good scout can pop the pistol and kill him, perhaps. Circle strafing with the FaN doesn't work as good, you need to have a bigger radius to allow plenty of reloading and make the enemy lose accuracy. Not a common scenario.
Scattergun: Hit & Run? Great weapon. Two or three meatshots from the back will get rid of anyone before they realize what's happening. Circle strafing? Amazing too! You have 6 shots that deal enough damage to kill most targets in short-med ranges. The only negative here is the slow reloading time. When an engagement requires lighting fast reflexes, you can't waste time reloading. A good scout will pop his pistol here.
Shortstop: Viable choice. It has a decent four shot insta reload and little spread. It will take you all 4 shots to kill a soldier from the back. Not so good against heavies. Also decent for strafing, the low spread will allow you to keep more distance with your target without losing too much damage or accuracy.

All in all (And against what Sajora thinks) I will pick the Scattergun any day, since it can perform with great efficiency any of the scout roles. It doesn't beat the FaN in annoyance factor. If you're looking for people to rage, the FaN is for you.
 
shush you. i know you used the shortstop! ;) but i got used to it so scouts are not that much of a problem anymore.
 
Let me just say now that I'm not going to focus on any of the Melee weapons, as none of them make any substantial difference in play style with any of the primary or secondary weapons, with the exception of the Sandman--which I find does best with the FAN below. Otherwise, I've got nothing to say about them.

Sure they do, just not the Mackeral.

Some common combos with melee weapons / primaries:

  • Whack with Boston Basher once for bleed, then FAN them away. Will kill most classes outright from FAN damage or a bit later from the bleed.
  • Stun with the Sandman ball, run up blasting away with the Shortstop. Can kill even heavies if the stun lasts long enough.
  • Candy Cane + everything. The health drop keeps you alive a lot longer as long as you're not up against a team of soldiers/demomen.

Also, the slowdown effect of the Shortstop was removed back in December.
 
The shortstop has a reload time that means you don't have to stop firing, it's near constant, but you can run out of bullets real quick.
 
Fixed a couple of mistakes, such as the Shortstop's slowdown still being listed. Thanks to those who pointed it out.
 
I suppose I am biased; anyone who's played with me on Blackmesa knows I use the Force-A-Nature exclusively. I do so because the Scout's role is obtaining objectives quickly, not engaging in intense firefights. Unless it's a one-on-one skirmish, the Scout should not hang around and engage.

Is the Scattergun any less viable an option? No, but the FaN is the embodiment of a practical methodology to Scout play: hit hard and run like the dickens. Consider the Pyro's notorious Puff-N-Sting, in which a Pyro ignites an enemy, brushes the enemy away with an airblast, and then takes the Axetinguisher/Powerjack to him. The cleverest Scouts will do the inverse, using the FaN to kick an enemy into a wide open spot and run around to circle strafe or, if feeling lucky, wait for the FaN to reload and finish the job while hopping around like a twitchy jackrabbit. The risks are obvious, but the best Scouts are capable of swiftly executing this tactic. By no means am I one of the best Scouts, but I've been able to kill Heavies at full health by doing so.

It is difficult to rate either the FaN or the Scattergun as being better than the other. Obviously, the FaN plays to the strength of ambuscade and swift retreat, whereas the Scattergun is optimal for a more cautious approach, especially if you miss your target. I've seen exceptional Scouts in this division take down overhealed Heavies with ease using the Scattergun. It depends, inter alia, on one's level of audacity, aim, and play style.

As for the Shortstop, this weapon is something of a mixed bag. On the one hand, the Scout benefits from amazing reload time and a fairly solid hit even from a distance. On the other hand, the Scout does less damage in general with it, and anyone using the Pistol as a backup is simply doing it wrong.

The Shortstop seems to benefit most from use against inimical Scouts, as they are already naturally weaker than other classes and thus it should not take long to bring down a hostile Scout with the Shortstop. However, odds are that the opposing team will be made up of more than solely Scouts, at which point the ramifications of the Shortstop set in rather quickly. The Shortstop might be a decent mid-range nuisance, but Scouts should not be looking to score kills from a distance; that is the forte of the Sniper. Run around a corner to discover an enemy Heavy and, unless he's near death, the Shortstop won't save you. The FaN, however, will probably shove him away long enough so you can split before getting cut to ribbons. As the Scout, one has to be prepared for a lot of contingencies that likely involve a very immediate and untimely death. In general, the Shortstop helps for few, if any, of those contingencies.
 
I suppose I am biased; anyone who's played with me on Blackmesa knows I use the Force-A-Nature exclusively. I do so because the Scout's role is obtaining objectives quickly, not engaging in intense firefights. Unless it's a one-on-one skirmish, the Scout should not hang around and engage.

I'm sorry, but that's just patently false.

The Scout's primary role is to make picks, meaning he is designed to kill. His +1 capture rate is a gimmick to help with backcaps and not much else.

If you're primarily using the Scout for obtaining objectives, you're not using his staggeringly high killing potential. There's a reason he's the best 1 vs. 1 class in the game, and he even excels in group fights if you know how to dodge and flank, which the Scout is the best at in this game.
 
Alright, since I plan on at least attempting to do this every Monday, does anyone have any suggestions for what class/loadout slot/anything I should take a swing at next? I'd like to have some sort of idea as to what you guys would like to see next.
 

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