Axtinguisher rebalance

[Bond]

"The Axtinguisher
100% crits on burning enemies
minicrits non burning enemies
-25% damage done
Removes afterburn on hit
No random crits






The idea behind this is fairly simple.
At 25% less damage, 100% minicrits will take you back to 65 damage on non burning enemies, so there's no difference than a regular melee swing. This is a buff since the axe currently does -50% to non burning enemies, which makes you very weak to pyros.
But the 25% damage nerf will make crits on burning enemies not do 195, but 148 or so damage instead. In addition, the axtinguisher, being a play on the word extinguisher, will extinguish the burning enemy hit by the attack. This makes killing support classes and weak enemies just as easy, since fire and a whack is a hefty blow. However, since there's not only a damage nerf but you have to reignite your target before you crit again, it doesn't allow you to two shot a fully overhealed heavy and spam extreme DPS unfairly.
This rebalance removes extra vulnerability against pyros, allowing you to keep your flare gun and retain DPS against them, but it also discourages just whoring your melee weapon; instead it's a solid triple digit finisher that you should use on a stubborn enemy or a pocket medic hiding behind an assault class for a quick kill. This also makes the axtinguisher a solid sidegrade instead of the grotesque upgrade it is now. In addition, this rebalance makes you consider all 3 of your weapons and emphasizes secondary fire or a split second more of burning rather than just puff and sting, which in my opinion is grossly OP and ruins the potential of the pyro.


C&C please, I've tried to think about this and decided that this was a viable option."



Now. I already posted this verbatim on the SPUF and the unanimous response was...gtfo noob axtinguisher is fine, which I find frustrating.

If I can get constructive criticism on how this version of the axtinguisher would make a decent sidegrade to the fireaxe as is, that would be great.

 

[FreakingHell]

Sounds like a good idea, but i don't really think it's necessary.

I don't see people dominating all over the place with the axtinguisher, and it's A-OK with me if enemy pyro is a hard counter.

 

[opscomm]

This is actually a huge nerf, because this means that you cannot kill heavies in 2 hits with it, you must re-ignite the heavy, which will most likely get you killed.

 

[VP :3]

Removing afterburn is a much bigger nerf as will as no critical hits, since the point of the Axtinguiser is to get a crit hit on an enemy on fire. Too much nerf.

 

[Bond]

I know it's a huge nerf. I'm saying that this way the axtinguisher becomes a sidegrade rather than the pure upgrade it is right now.


Edit:
Axtinguisher
Upon hitting flaming:
Ally: remaining afterburn comes back as healing, marked for death
Enemy: afterburn already inflicted comes back as healing, marked for death
Afterburn is extinguished upon hit
This weapon cannot deal damage
Enemies and allies are marked for death until the afterburn is supposed to wear off.

This is a very dark version; I might consider making a model for this and calling it something else. This is tricky; do you heal yourself more at the expense of putting your teammate at risk? Do you maximize the time your enemy is marked at the expense of getting less health? Plus, if you wait too long, the fire will go out and you won't get any health at all. A concept for thinking.

 

[Anouthen]

I actually like the sound of that idea, even though it is a big nerf.

 

[FREESTYLEkill3r]

No, like mentioned above, you don't see everyone just dominating everywhere with the weapon. I like it how it is, and hope it's left alone for the most part. It's an essential secondary for Pyro in my opinion. Let Valve worry about not releasing anymore stupid updates, without testing them, and hopefully they'll leave alone the older weapons already in the game, so they can't screw those up.

 

[Grenade_Pin]

No, like mentioned above, you don't see everyone just dominating everywhere with the weapon. I like it how it is, and hope it's left alone for the most part. It's an essential secondary for Pyro in my opinion. Let Valve worry about not releasing anymore stupid updates, without testing them, and hopefully they'll leave alone the older weapons already in the game, so they can't screw those up.

agree pyro is fine where he sits I don't understand this especially after all this time, One of the few classes I feel is really balanced with their weapons etc.

 

[IrateDonnie]

No way, if they changed the axtinguisher playing Pyro wouldn't be nearly as fun.

 

[dy1an]

Messing with an item that hasn't been touched in nearly 3 years? Does that sound like a good idea bond?

 

[Darth]

Axetinguisher is pefect. We don't need to ruin the game more than valve already has.

 

[Cacophonus]

Honestly the axetinguisher is fine. You can't axe good heavies anyways- not unless they are using the brass beast, in which case they have no chance at all. Ever try axetingushing Theveren? Just doesn't work out.

Unless the heavy has tunnel vision, there is no communication going on, or you otherwise totally catch them with their pants down (in which case you could shotty/burn them to death anyways), axetinguisher is no good- the best you can do is degreaser puff, axe, meatshot from the shotgun- normally enough to kill, or at least kill before they kill you.

 

[FreakingHell]

We don't need to ruin the game more than valve already has.

:thumbup:

 

[Mr.SaJoRa]

why would you nerf a weapon thats far from OP? if your a decent player you can kill any pyro anyways.

 

[dy1an]

Honestly the axetinguisher is fine. You can't axe good heavies anyways- not unless they are using the brass beast, in which case they have no chance at all. Ever try axetingushing Theveren? Just doesn't work out.

Unless the heavy has tunnel vision, there is no communication going on, or you otherwise totally catch them with their pants down (in which case you could shotty/burn them to death anyways), axetinguisher is no good- the best you can do is degreaser puff, axe, meatshot from the shotgun- normally enough to kill, or at least kill before they kill you.

No cac, the reason your failing at axetinguishing heavies is because you don't puff heavies unless you're trying to confuse them by juggling them(for the lulz). It gives them enough time to spin it up and kill you before you're even close to one hit (imagine if its already spinning).
Best thing to do is use literally 3 flamethrower ammo to light him up then strafe him for 2 axetinguisher hits.

 

[Ezekiel]

Ewwww no, hasn't the pyro been nerfed enough as it is? Heavies (good heavies) are already hard enough to kill as pyro without the axtinguisher putting the flames out + damage nerf.

 

[iBeast]

Removing afterburn? That's horrible.

 

[Bond]

It would obviously never be put into the game anyway, so okay ._.

It wasn't supposed to work, it was supposed to be nerfed so it was neither better nor worse than the vanilla axe. For sure, the first thing that needs fixing is not the axtinguisher. There's plenty more imbalance that needs to be dealt with first. I presumed it would be an interesting thought experiment to see if I could retain the core bonus of the axtinguisher without it being a direct upgrade.

 

[eightDash]

It would obviously never be put into the game anyway, so okay ._.

It wasn't supposed to work, it was supposed to be nerfed so it was neither better nor worse than the vanilla axe. For sure, the first thing that needs fixing is not the axtinguisher. There's plenty more imbalance that needs to be dealt with first. I presumed it would be an interesting thought experiment to see if I could retain the core bonus of the axtinguisher without it being a direct upgrade.

Valve has no interest in having the default melee weapons balanced. They've already released two Medic melees that are direct upgrades from the Bonesaw.

 

[Noise]

Its fine the way it is.