Revision of Spawn Killing/Camping Rule

[Slazenger]

At our admin round table meeting, we discussed our current policy of "No spawn killing in enemy uncaps unless they shoot at you...but you can steal vehicles and sabotage." There have been a few different opinions on this and we would like everyone to weigh in on the issue.

Please vote and then share your opinion with us.

 

[Gizzmo]

+1 vote for "Stealing vehicles is OK, Killing is not"

 

[FearOfNapalm]

Do not allow any killing (unless they are shooting out), entering, etc in enemy uncaps.

 

[PBJ]

Different idea:

Allow spawnkilling/shooting into spawn. However, DO NOT allow people to sit in spawn and shoot people. I like to be able to sabotage vehicles (C4 them) or shoot rockets into the helicopters in Heavy Metal. I would also be able to kill people from outside the spawn. I just don't support people killing EVERYONE who spawns; that's where it gets ridiculous.

 

[rogerwilco69]

Do not allow any killing. No real advantage to it and in my opinion it's too hard to admin if you mix and match it. Just my thoughts.

 

[iEye Captain]

Different idea:

Allow spawnkilling/shooting into spawn. However, DO NOT allow people to sit in spawn and shoot people. I like to be able to sabotage vehicles (C4 them) or shoot rockets into the helicopters in Heavy Metal. I would also be able to kill people from outside the spawn. I just don't support people killing EVERYONE who spawns; that's where it gets ridiculous.

From an admin's point of view, that would be extremely difficult to enforce as there will be a lot of "he said/she said".

In terms of what is easiest and clear cut to admin, I would say do not allow any killing of any kind in spawns. If you want to steal vehicles, make the hell sure nobody sees you. If someone sees you, you deserve to die. You took the gamble, you live with the consequences.

 

[KILLERCANKILL]

Do not allow any killing and no stealing vehicles. Just dont allow anyone to get into Spawn as when you leave any options open someone will take an advantage of it. There is no reason in the game that would require you to shoot into spawn unless someone is shooting at you from inside spawn.

 

[itBurnsWhenIPee]

Technically it is hard to manage as it is, as an admin. Generally, if someone goes into an uncap to steal a vehicle, they will probably be met with some hostility, and to try and force the rule of "Cannot shoot unless fired upon" would technically be difficult. It'd be a he said/she said kinda thing.

So with that being said, either Allow it all, or Don't allow anything at all.

I voted for No Spawn Camping, No Spawn Killing (Unless being shot at), No Vehicle Stealing. It's the easiest way to admin the server. This way, doesn't give anyone any excuse to be in an uncap.

(Though, I think it should be allowed on Rush, as it is a strategy for the Defense Team)

 

[P3N]

I think our rule got many point of views, but we should just add something to it to make it better, so this is my opinion:

Let the rule like it is, go steal and perform some sabotage, but if your team controls all the points DO NOT go inside the other team's base, because that kills the server instantly

So in my opinion is easy to see if your team is just there camping or just doing some sabotage and keep the server running smoothly

 

[SUPERJ569]

Not allowed into enemy spawn for any reason.

 

[Facey]

No stealing, killing or entering uncap for any reason is the best bet.

 

[Pjordan]

Personally, when I get caught in the other team's base I just stand there and let them kill me. Generally get no complaints that way - and I tend to enter the enemy spawn on a regular basis, especially when my team is winning decisively.

I think the current rules are somewhat difficult to admin at times, but are usually acceptable to most players and don't cause too much trouble.

The only way to make it easier to admin overall however, in my opinion, is to either make it anything goes, or to forbid entering spawn or shooting into spawn altogether.

I think PBJ's idea would be essentially impossible to admin, and to completely ban entering spawn for any reason as Killercankill suggested would just mean more work for the admin present on the server unless we employ a plugin to auto-kill anyone firing into spawn.

My personal opinion is to leave it the way it is now (on conquest maps) because it's really not that much of an issue, any more than language, racism, or any of the other normal issues that arise.

 

[GingaNinja]

The problem with the current rule and the suggested rule:
All it really does is slow down the game pace. I know the intention of the rule is to give the team being rolled a chance to coordinate a comeback. However, the current ruling is hard to enforce and falls into the gray area quite a lot. For example, the debate about strapping C4 to a vehicle and blowing it up right after it leaves the spawn. That is the exact same thing as killing them in spawn, just with a bit of delay. As soon as they entered that vehicle they are set to die.

The suggested rule just makes the existing problem worse. I heard someone in vent mention it makes the game passive which is exactly what it does. Now you have two possible scenarios for in-game when a team is getting rolled. Either one team will just camp right outside the spawn and wait for them to come out or shoot them as soon as they shoot (squad spawning makes this all too viable). The other instance would be you just wont be able to restrain a whole team of pubs from doing their own thing and charging that spawn, it's hard enough to prevent them as it is. People join the game to play, if one person is saying its the rule that you can't enter the enemy spawn the pub will just leave to find a server where they can shoot something. Those who don't leave willingly are going to run in and you'll have to kick them anyway. The servers will just end up empty whenever a team rolls another team under the proposed rule. The current ruling also causes people to leave, but more slowly.

A different idea: Make the spawn camping rule situational.
Remember the intention of a "no spawn camping" rule is to allow a team a fighting chance. However, I think we would all agree at a certain point, there is no way a team can make a come back if the ticket difference is too great. Therefore, say a team is getting suppressed in their spawn, the spawn camping rule should depend on the difference of tickets between the two teams.

For example:
The match is set at 250 tickets per team. One team is getting rolled early on, the ticket count quickly changes to 225 vs 200 (25 ticket difference). At this point the current rule (or the proposed rule) for spawn camping should be enforced. However, later in the game say the tickets have now changed to 200 vs 100 (100 ticket difference). At this point the chances a team can come back is much lower, all the spawn camping rule does now is delay the end of the match and the start of a fresh round. Therefore I say once the teams pass that threshold where the team getting rolled has little chance of making a comeback to simply remove any spawn camping rule. The values I used in this example is just for the sake of the example, if this rule garners support the difference in ticket value would be subjective to the server settings.

 

[h987654321]

I think our rule got many point of views, but we should just add something to it to make it better, so this is my opinion:

Let the rule like it is, go steal and perform some sabotage, but if your team controls all the points DO NOT go inside the other team's base, because that kills the server instantly

So in my opinion is easy to see if your team is just there camping or just doing some sabotage and keep the server running smoothly

Agreed. I also think that if people go into the base they should not be able to fire back at anyone in the base if they are fired upon, because it is a gamble, you should be smarter not to get spotted by the enemy if you are going to sabotage or steal. But if they are firing at you and you are outside of the base you should have the right to defend yourself.

 

[Pjordan]

I also think that if people go into the base they should not be able to fire back at anyone in the base if they are fired upon, because it is a gamble, you should be smarter not to get spotted by the enemy if you are going to sabotage or steal. But if they are firing at you and you are outside of the base you should have the right to defend yourself.

This is essentially how I play it currently, and really think it is the best way to go - although I fear it will mean a lot more work for the admins Play first, admin second...

 

[TheAngryPanda]

The problem with having any sort of rule that allows you to enter spawn, regardless of your situation/justification, you are hurting our server's populartity. If you spawn and get killed instantly, how do you feel? If you run to a helicopter and it magical implodes constantly over and over every time it spawns, how does that make you feel? If you spawn and run to prevent this type of spawn activity only to be dropped constantly every single time because hey, guess what... you shot at them so it's all good for them to shoot you now! That doesn't make you feel any better.

This is how our players feel, public and clan members alike, every single time it occurs. It's not fun, it's not beneficial to anyone other than the person/people doing it, and it's definitely not going to populate our server in any way. In fact, it does the complete opposite, it destroys the popularity of a server along with it's population.

Sorry for the condescending tone, but this is how I and many other players feel about the absurd method that is in play currently.

~panda

 

[forty2skates]

Allowed to enter to steal or drop C4/AT mines, nothing more. Any firing of any kind by the aggressor is not allowed. You get shot inside of your own uncap, someone broke the rule, it's that simple and easy to admin IMHO.

 

[Infektion]

No stealing, killing or entering uncap for any reason imo is still the best way to treat the issue, since when people go to steal a vehicle, they are tempted to shoot someone that spotted them.

 

[jtipton.]

The uncaps in conquest should be sealed to enemy players. If a recon or even a tank begin firing out of the uncaps, then they, and only they, become legitimate targets and they and only they can be fired upon from outside the uncaps. Otherwise there should be no penetration of the uncap perimeters by the enemy from fire or any physically means, land or air.

 

[2-TRUU D325]

Different idea:

Allow spawnkilling/shooting into spawn. However, DO NOT allow people to sit in spawn and shoot people. I like to be able to sabotage vehicles (C4 them) or shoot rockets into the helicopters in Heavy Metal. I would also be able to kill people from outside the spawn. I just don't support people killing EVERYONE who spawns; that's where it gets ridiculous.

I agree with PBJ