R.I.P BlackMesa

[ShawnJ]

I remember going to a TF2 meeting and them saying something like "the new servers are great and their specs are blah blah blah".

initial reaction: awesome!
result: it lagged so horribly for few weeks that nobody could play in there. after few weeks, it still lagged sometimes...and apparently some people still to this day had major lag issues with it.

I remember them saying something like "as long as other servers are filled, BM won't be in problem"

initial reaction: cool, i'll go help out other servers when i can. i ended up joining foundry server a lot and often played in valve maps as well.
result: BM is chopped off w/o any warning whatsoever.


point: i would rather be told a truth than sugercoated bs.

surely you guys knew about the situation for a while...you said so yourself... supposedly this announcement was supposed to be done a week ago or so....why weren't we informed about it? why weren't we allowed to put mesa back on spot?

Here, I'll give you a goal for getting the Blackmesa Server back. This is not a promise because I have not discussed it with any other Leadership member yet, but if you meet all of the following goals then I will personally see what we can do about another one.

1. All non Events servers are full the majority of the day, preferably rank 500 or below.
2. Blackmesa events are consistently full
3. We meet or exceed our recruiting goal regularly

Once again, I'm not saying if you meet those 3 goals that you definitely will get Mesa back, I'm saying that I will personally try to get another Mesa server if you do.


If you meet points 1 and 3 then that is grounds for us to try to get a new Server from Council in general, and if you're not meeting point 2 also then there is no reason for us to consider Mesa for the possible new server. If you do not meet all three goals then there is nothing I can do for you, help me help you. But if you are meeting or exceeding all 3 then that will be something I can work with.

lol

 

[Noise]

As Dirty Harry informed me about this, I had to come in and read a bit. So far, nothing I have read was unexpected.
But, even though I'm pretty sure no one missed me, I must say that the only reason I stopped playing on mesa, and pretty much other eGO servers, was the IP change. The lag just made it impossible for me to keep playing. When this change happened, I had received some negative feedback about it from the community. The few days that mesa had people (With me playing, of course) I also read negative comments about the change.
So I just stepped back and hoped for the change to be reverted, which as far as I know, never happened.

Now, I'm lacking a lot of data here, but I'll just try to sum it up:

If the server change was unsuccessful and, actually, worst. (Be it for lag issues, or people who lost track of the server, whatever) Why did we stick with it? I don't know, was a rollback out of our reach?

Months have passed and well, I miss playing on BMesa with the regulars. But I seriously doubt it can be fixed now.

how dare you, you know i'd miss you

 

[Activate]

I remember going to a TF2 meeting and them saying something like "the new servers are great and their specs are blah blah blah".

initial reaction: awesome!
result: it lagged so horribly for few weeks that nobody could play in there. after few weeks, it still lagged sometimes...and apparently some people still to this day had major lag issues with it.

I remember them saying something like "as long as other servers are filled, BM won't be in problem"

initial reaction: cool, i'll go help out other servers when i can. i ended up joining foundry server a lot and often played in valve maps as well.
result: BM is chopped off w/o any warning whatsoever.


point: i would rather be told a truth than sugercoated bs.

surely you guys knew about the situation for a while...you said so yourself... supposedly this announcement was supposed to be done a week ago or so....why weren't we informed about it? why weren't we allowed to put mesa back on spot?



lol

We were told that we needed to remove Mesa a long time ago. We meant to change it sooner, but the Clan Wide meeting came up.

As for all of you saying stuff about how Roker's bounty would help, you're wrong. The decision was made well before his bounty came out. Please stop pointing fingers at us as we truly did not want this to happen. It was either change the server to something more popular, or lose the server all together. As I stated previously, I think you guys would be much happier with a different setup then down another server.

I'm agreeing with Kevi's posts in the previous pages. If you guys can fill our other servers and get recruiting up, I will do everything in my power to get a BlackMesa server back for you guys. You guys may not like the server change, but right now, its what's best for the division. When our servers are more popular and filled a lot more often, we will get more servers and we will push for a BlackMesa server.

If anyone has any questions or just wants to talk, please send me a PM or find me on steam. I will be more then happy to talk with anyone who wants to.

-Activate

 

[Jubei]

Honestly the reaction from the leaders is less "we care about what you think" and more "we know better than you, deal with it."

I also see a lot of side stepping instead of addressing the concerns of the members. There have been issues raised apart from the server that are being ignored.

On another note:

When I joined, Edge Gamers was a community with members that had some expenses (websites and servers).

Now it looks like a business (nonprofit, but a business nonetheless) with players and "members" treated as a product for the advertisers who are the customer with the website and servers seen as a cost of doing said business.

 

[shadows5631]

I feel the need to point out something...

Mesa used to be extremely popular. A year ago or so, you could expect it to be full at 3am.

Then, for whatever reason, leadership decided to move the server.

The new server sucked, so everybody stopped playing on it.

Now, Mesa has been shutdown due to nobody playing on it.

You don't have to be an O to see what the problem is here... or the solution.


How much did it cost to run the old server for a month?

The exact same thing happened to Turbine.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That sums it up well.

If the server cost too much at the time, cut the cord on a less popular server. Oh and you could always open up the event server for the general public during non event hours. It at least generates some kind of population and actually advertises well for us before events start. I see no reason to blow money on a server that's locked 3/4ths of the time. Yes events are fun, but it's not worth the trade off.

 

[Whisker Biscuit]

It was either change the server to something more popular, or lose the server all together.

Who exactly is telling you to do this, though, and why? Do they actually play TF2, or are they simply looking at graphs? This is another thing I've had an issue with, that I'm noticing: People who aren't actively playing TF2 (not going to name names) are making certain decisions that they either have invalid reasons behind or are not in the interests of the community.

 

[Naku_vamp]

Who exactly is telling you to do this, though, and why? Do they actually play TF2, or are they simply looking at graphs? This is another thing I've had an issue with, that I'm noticing: People who aren't actively playing TF2 (not going to name names) are making certain decisions that they either have invalid reasons behind or are not in the interests of the community.

lag will kill a server, i believe i reported it to leadership several times, no one did anything about it, but oh well guess its time to switch divisions

 

[? Frisky Dingo ?]

oh well guess its time to switch divisions

Nah, I'm only joining servers I like now and refuse to join any dustbowl/foundry/2fart server...yes I said 2fart, wont be on our servers much till things change...later.

 

[Zeream]

We were told that we needed to remove Mesa a long time ago. We meant to change it sooner, but the Clan Wide meeting came up.

As for all of you saying stuff about how Roker's bounty would help, you're wrong. The decision was made well before his bounty came out. Please stop pointing fingers at us as we truly did not want this to happen. It was either change the server to something more popular, or lose the server all together. As I stated previously, I think you guys would be much happier with a different setup then down another server.

I'm agreeing with Kevi's posts in the previous pages. If you guys can fill our other servers and get recruiting up, I will do everything in my power to get a BlackMesa server back for you guys. You guys may not like the server change, but right now, its what's best for the division. When our servers are more popular and filled a lot more often, we will get more servers and we will push for a BlackMesa server.

If anyone has any questions or just wants to talk, please send me a PM or find me on steam. I will be more then happy to talk with anyone who wants to.

-Activate

So... wait. Let me get this straight. You knew about this LONG ago, and yet you STILL didn't tell us in an attempt to get it fixed? Any and all hope I had in this leadership has just been lost. You do realize how simple the solution was to this problem, right? Tell the community that their map is in danger. Not once did you tell us, and that's your problem. Who knows how long this was withheld from us. So tell me, representation of our leadership, how can you justify removing the server when you didn't even tell us about it in the first place? No, don't even try it. I've been reading, and apparently you guys have been making the same mistakes over and over throughout the years, with 24/7 gravelpit, turbine, etc. You thought it would be a good idea to modify the map without consulting the community, you do so, and then you completely kill your ranking. Its okay to get it wrong once, but for crying out loud learn from your mistakes! There was no reason, no reason at all to do it to maps like egypt or blackmesa.

Also, explain to me how "changing the servers" aka alienating the community in every way shape and form is best for the community. No, don't even try sugercoating that either. You moved your best server knowing full well that it would not get the same members as before, and now you remove the map altogether to cover your asses. Some of your best members are LEAVING because of this! You seem to think that as a community we owe something to you, the leadership, and that we must fill our servers constantly, religiously almost. That is not the case at all. You owe it to us, your community, to actually treat us like one, because from all I've seen here, you completely fail in that department. Taking away the community's favorite maps? Our soul? Causing our long standing supporters to quit? What are you even thinking up there? What's next? The whole divisional forums?!

Another point; I have not seen anything from leadership so far to think that you would do anything for your community. Anything. Seems more like you have an agenda to destroy us all. So tell me, why I should even heed your promises of server redemption when all it looks like to us is empty words? Plus, what the hell did WE do to deserve this? Nothing. Simply, nothing. No, I don't feel like recruiting and filling our servers just to please your higher-ups and cover your asses for your poor decisions. No, I don't feel like it at all. Maybe if you had actually done something for the community, but you haven't.

We will continue to point fingers at you guys and your superiors, because you screwed yourselves over. You made the decision. We just play on your servers and have fun, and when you strip us of our servers, what do we have left? A boiling pot of hatred at poor leadership, that's what. We will not respond to simply "fill servers and recruit" or any explanation thereof. Tell us the whole goddamn story of why you even let something like this happen first, from square one, and maybe that will get you somewhere.

I think this video sums up my thoughts pretty nicely.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ[/ame]

 

[Jubei]

I didn't even read Activate's post closely until just now...

So you guys knew "a long time ago" that Blackmesa needed to go and you sat on it?

I knew from late March that it was going to happen and I'm not even privy to leadership's decisions! I assumed that if I knew, somebody who is just a forum member and pub on the servers, that the whole Edgegamers community knew - or at least those who read the forums.

Wow.

So I'll reiterate:

If the leadership truly cares about the future of the tf2 division, they'll need to take its long standing members seriously, treat them with respect and show them that they care.

I doubt that will happen.

 

[Flippy the Squirrel]

A couple of comment-worthy points that I saw before the bile rose and I had to stop reading.

Once again, I'm not saying if you meet those 3 goals that you definitely will get Mesa back, I'm saying that I will personally try to get another Mesa server if you do.

This sounds more and more like working for a telemarketing company. When I was an advisor, it started to seem more and more like a job and less and less like fun. I worked sixty hours a week, had kids and a wife, and countless other balls in the air. I had slack time at work, so I could go ape in the forums, but the rest of it ... it was too much like a second job, so I bailed.

Now it's starting to seem like being an eGO member is a second job. Perhaps that's not a fair criticism, but rather than admit that the clan has hit a saturation point, I seem (from a casual and distant observation point) to see more and more focus on recruiting drives and ad click-through rates.

Making a profit in a business in order to keep services alive and money flowing is one thing; but if you can't keep your customers (or in this case, members) happy, then that's bad business sense.

eGO is very much a for-profit enterprise, and it's naive to pretend anything else. Anyone who tells themselves that the money only goes to the cost of the servers is living in la-la-land.

That having been said, I don't hold a grudge against anyone who has the drive and dedication to turn a hobby into a business. I am in awe of what eGO has become in the few short years I've been a part of the community.

Zeream's point, however, is well-taken and deserves further mention. I don't know what percentage of the TF2 community is disgruntled, largely because I've lost interest again. The folks I played with are gone, and I can't be arsed to get into that routine again. I've got other things occupying my brain space. This thread is pretty epic, and the parts of it I could get through suggest that a large portion of the customer base is upset, which is a direct threat to the business, and should be taken seriously.

Now, back to other things. Cheers.

 

[IrateDonnie]

The exact same thing happened to Turbine.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That sums it up well.

If the server cost too much at the time, cut the cord on a less popular server. Oh and you could always open up the event server for the general public during non event hours. It at least generates some kind of population and actually advertises well for us before events start. I see no reason to blow money on a server that's locked 3/4ths of the time. Yes events are fun, but it's not worth the trade off.

Not to beat a dead horse but the same thing happened to the Warpath server about 2 years ago.It had a really bad case of lag for about a month & then leadership decided to switch servers & all the regular players just disappeared.

 

[Entreri]

We're not here to kill the community, we're not trying to make bad decisions, but we're only human. We do the best we can given our resources and our experience, but we don't always make good decisions, and we can't always make decisions that everyone will like, but we always do our best.

You're not trying to make bad decisions, but are you willing to fix one? Is it an option to undo a bad decision or do you just say "oh well, it was a bad decision but you'll just have to live with it"?

 

[MSK Impostr]

A Request

I personally feel that the leadership should weigh in on these issues, seeing as much of the concern is towards their actions. We can no longer ignore that something is critically wrong with this division. There is a constant insistence on the part of the leadership that they know what is best for the community when they themselves are barely part of it. To quote Gypsy, "if changes in this attitude aren't made, the TF2 leadership will wake up someday soon and find that their servers are all they have left."

-MSK-

 

[newb]

What I don't understand is there is this uproar of people complaining about the loss of black mesa but every time I looked at the server it was always empty. That makes me think half of you are jumping on the bandwagon about the server, just to make drama.
IMO we lost a bad map for another bad map.

 

[RofLCopter]

I personally feel that the leadership should weigh in on these issues, seeing as much of the concern is towards their actions. We can no longer ignore that something is critically wrong with this division. There is a constant insistence on the part of the leadership that they know what is best for the community when they themselves are barely part of it. To quote Gypsy, "if changes in this attitude aren't made, the TF2 leadership will wake up someday soon and find that their servers are all they have left."

-MSK-

Stop he hating.... I left for one week and found that my favourite server is gone... well It bothers me, but what bothers me the most is that in it?s replacement is 24/7 dustbowl.... Even if regular rotation is dustbowl... I think servers should have RTV, 2fort server could/should have always have turbine as a RTV map... I think it makes more sense to have CTF. PL. CP maps and a custom/community maps server.

I know a lot of people would really love an ocassional mesa, and cashworks, a and convoy, even some cp_castle . Even if you make it 24/7 dustbowl by default.... players should have a say on what they can play next.

 

[Wilson!!]

What I don't understand is there is this uproar of people complaining about the loss of black mesa but every time I looked at the server it was always empty. That makes me think half of you are jumping on the bandwagon about the server, just to make drama.
IMO we lost a bad map for another bad map.

I am looking through this thread and seeing ALL these names that I havent seen in who knows how long, months, maybe years. And all of them are fighting the map change, disagreeing with the leadership's choice. As newb said the server was rarely populated, being 75% of the time empty, and 25% simply populated, not even full, it could be less than that, yet those of you who rarely played in the server, and never came in when the numerous, YES NUMEROUS Fast Fills were put out for blackmesa, continue to want it back and say how we as leadership make bad decisions and ruin our division. We encouraged all of you to populate the server, and it never happened, we never got support, so that is not our fault as leadership for this change.

I would gladly agree with all of your appeals to this change if you were all true supporters of the server and cared about our division.

 

[WyrmMage]

I went to the fast fills >.<

 

[Jubei]

Wilson, I'm not saying that BM should return, I'm calling leadership out on their attitude, duplicity, and secrecy.

There's a reason I stopped going to BM and I mentioned why in my first post in this tread. A post that seems to have been ignored, like so many other posts in this thread.

You want more from the community? Then earn it.

 

[Roker]

Fast fills don't seem to be working for dustbowl either.