i seem to remember all the most successfull servers having assualt limited to 2, maybe times have changed.
Anzio - MG
- Thread starter Lungbuster
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i seem to remember all the most successfull servers having assualt limited to 2, maybe times have changed.
not in eGO afaik, and certainly not in Anzio. btw, isnt this a mg thread?
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Not if there's less than 9 players silly goose
I am about 90% positive that the plugin will not be able to restrict the MG class if you are random. But we will have to try it.
darn it!
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Actually once testing it, it does restrict even the random class.
S
Sumac
Tend to disagree with this direction. I am a fan of asking members to hold off on using certain weapons until more players show, just as we ask them not to cap the tank on Donner for the same purpose. But forcing it?
I can not agree with limiting further the playing style of the pubbers. I understand the purpose, and it will most likely help a little, but I still disagree with the direction this takes us. I see this as almost in the same category of having people on Charlie decide who gets snipers. It may help the servers a bit, but it's not what eGO is supposed to be about.
At the end of the day server population drives advertising and is all the really matters.
Just disagree with this very strongly. Please don't try and explain to me why this is happening. As stated I understand your reasoning, I just disagree and will leave it at that.
I can not agree with limiting further the playing style of the pubbers. I understand the purpose, and it will most likely help a little, but I still disagree with the direction this takes us. I see this as almost in the same category of having people on Charlie decide who gets snipers. It may help the servers a bit, but it's not what eGO is supposed to be about.
At the end of the day server population drives advertising and is all the really matters.
Just disagree with this very strongly. Please don't try and explain to me why this is happening. As stated I understand your reasoning, I just disagree and will leave it at that.
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Not sure about mad, lol... but, the less opportunity for ramboing is true, lol.
I don't know... I can't say I agree with this one. I mean, the server on low numbers alone, rarely has camping mgs... Maybe I've missed it or wasn't on server when camping mgs were around the server when it was dying or being started but, for the most part, I would've thought people moved around as per normal gameplay.
It just looks like another form of weapons restriction on top of what's already there. I'm not really a fan of it. There are already weapons restrictions in place as for players to abide by and quite frankly, camping with an mg is apart of gameplay. I'm not saying that it's amazingly fun and will help the server but, if a player wishes to do so, then it's apart of the game. Obviously we can't say "hey you, stop camping with the mg please." That obviously isn't going to help the server.
Maybe best thing to do is better pinpoint what kills the server or helps build it up faster.
If this measure is to help prevent killing it while it's on low numbers, I'm just not convinced that this is a sole reason or solution which explains Anzio dying for a part of the day. Players leave for a number of reasons, many unbeknownst to us. But, I just don't believe camping mgs in this particular case is one of them.
I don't feel limiting mgs according to how many players are on server will necessary help dictate the health of the server. If the player picks a class and it's available, they should be able to use it whether it's rambo or prone position. It's apart of gameplay.
Maybe on other maps it's more apparent (Strand with mg/sniper on the beach, etc. and people start raging because it's difficult getting off the beach... but, that's a different discussion)
I just don't feel limiting classes in this way until the number of players increases is pinpointing the exact problem or solution to this.
To kinda have it enforced upon people, can't really say I'm a fan either.
We can ask the server/pubbers regarding weapons usage in the low number periods... but, shouldn't really implement it as policy, especially with restrictions like this on pubbers.
That's just me.
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Bring me proof of one example of Anzio filling above 15 players when 2 MG slots are used on at least one of the two teams. I don't think anyone can do that. I will also add that the assumption that not much thought was put into this alteration, is a false one.
I will just start here by saying since you yourself are one of the constant MG spammers on Anzio, its not surprising that you did not notice any of this. Your opinion here is quite biased, and it shows as much if not all of your argument is based purely upon emotion rather than fact or logic.
Saying camping with an mg is a part of the game is a cop-out argument. Gameplay is neither absolute nor static, and is subject to change depending upon the needs and wants of any given community. You don't even give your definition of "acceptable" gameplay, so I don't know whether or not that was a point meant to be argued. Also, you state you cannot say mg spam on a near-empty server is fun or helpful to filling. This is probably because it is neither fun nor helpful to filling the server. Lastly, we are not telling people how to use their weapon classes, so that is a moot point.
I have bolded the parts of your argument here that are either false assumptions, or things which we do not and have not claimed.
I will address your last point here, when you seem to think the problem of mg spam on an empty server is a problem with pubbers only. I will tell you that on Anzio, our own members account for the large majority of this problem. And this ranges from all ranks, which sometimes surprises me the most. On numerous occasions over the span of about 4-5 weeks I have seen our own members time and time again pick up mg when there is hardly anyone in the server. Even after they are suggested against doing it. I will not name names here if I can avoid it, but you folks know who you are.
So my suggestion to individuals like yourself, spartacus, is to give this change a chance, see if it helps fill Anzio, and get back to us in a couple weeks if you still notice no positive changes. After all, this is a very mild restriction, its fair, and we are currently not planning on making it divisional policy on all maps. This change was crafted for Anzio and only Anzio with the hopes that it would improve server traffic. That being said, if you think you have a better source of the problem or a better solution to this one, let us know.
On a side note, for the first time in almost 2 weeks, Anzio hovered around 20 people last night instead of the average 12, prior to this change. And this was with no steam announcements or friends list spamming.
Regards,
Blue
I will just start here by saying since you yourself are one of the constant MG spammers on Anzio, its not surprising that you did not notice any of this. Your opinion here is quite biased, and it shows as much if not all of your argument is based purely upon emotion rather than fact or logic.
Saying camping with an mg is a part of the game is a cop-out argument. Gameplay is neither absolute nor static, and is subject to change depending upon the needs and wants of any given community. You don't even give your definition of "acceptable" gameplay, so I don't know whether or not that was a point meant to be argued. Also, you state you cannot say mg spam on a near-empty server is fun or helpful to filling. This is probably because it is neither fun nor helpful to filling the server. Lastly, we are not telling people how to use their weapon classes, so that is a moot point.
I have bolded the parts of your argument here that are either false assumptions, or things which we do not and have not claimed.
I will address your last point here, when you seem to think the problem of mg spam on an empty server is a problem with pubbers only. I will tell you that on Anzio, our own members account for the large majority of this problem. And this ranges from all ranks, which sometimes surprises me the most. On numerous occasions over the span of about 4-5 weeks I have seen our own members time and time again pick up mg when there is hardly anyone in the server. Even after they are suggested against doing it. I will not name names here if I can avoid it, but you folks know who you are.
So my suggestion to individuals like yourself, spartacus, is to give this change a chance, see if it helps fill Anzio, and get back to us in a couple weeks if you still notice no positive changes. After all, this is a very mild restriction, its fair, and we are currently not planning on making it divisional policy on all maps. This change was crafted for Anzio and only Anzio with the hopes that it would improve server traffic. That being said, if you think you have a better source of the problem or a better solution to this one, let us know.
On a side note, for the first time in almost 2 weeks, Anzio hovered around 20 people last night instead of the average 12, prior to this change. And this was with no steam announcements or friends list spamming.
Regards,
Blue
Having helped fill the Anzio server countless times since the Rangers were brought into commission I can safely say that I think this is an excellent idea and I support it fully. I can think of several situations while trying to get it started when a pub or a member of eGO picks the MG class and sets up behind their 1st flag, or covering a spawn exit. It gets really annoying really fast not only for members of eGO but for pubs and I have talked to and seen pub players leave the server because of this. Having a player leave early (say 4 v4) can be very damaging to the ability to fill that server.
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MG spammer???
Wasn't sure that was what this discussion was purely about...
Limiting a class on the Anzio server to increase it's server rank... discussing what kills the server... let's keep it to that
Call me biased about usage on the MG... maybe you could but, I only offered an opinion. Quite frankly, it's an opinion based upon observation of what I've seen and noticed and of course can be wrong or correct... But, the observations I've made are my own and I'd like to think they're at least honest. If you want to call my honesty 'bias'... that's up to you but hey, I'm not really one to go out and lie about something when I provide an answer to a question or provide an opinion in an open forum.
"Acceptible gameplay"
What is acceptible gameplay... I can only offer what restrictions we have on server like... let's say firing into spawn, or firing nades and rockets into spawn, etc.
A lot of the stickies that are posted on what not to do in server, etc.
I think a game like Day of Defeat Source, most people know what kind of game they're getting themselves into. To give an exact definition "acceptible gameplay" and tell a community "alright guys, this is acceptible gameplay, which means we can do A, B and C... but is not limited to D or E"... Umm yeah...
Here's an impromptu one for DoDs:
You go out, try to achieve objectives by either flag capping, killing the enemy or completing the objectives otherwise. How it is done, is up to the players no matter how creative they may be.
If players wish to come onto the server and just have fun 'killing' then, what am I going to do? Tell them that is unacceptable 'gameplay' or to please keep to the acceptable 'gameplay of completing objectives' even if they might not necessarily want to?
This is why I didn't want to provide exact definitions to this because difficult to provide exact definitions to a number of unlimited forms of gameplay...
Camping MG a 'cop-put' argument...
Call it what you like but, argument nonetheless it is. Camping MGs are apart of the game. They both 'can' harm and are apart of server gameplay... That's what I'm saying.
I think maybe I should ask what 'MG Spam' is? Sounds like there's a great negative connotation over what it is exactly. If using the MG class is 'MG Spam', then isn't anyone who uses the MG whether a little or exclusively an 'MG Spammer'?
I use the MG on Anzio in a unique way because I find it fun and more challenging than being in the prone position. That's the truth why I use the MG on Anzio.
Now, is it illegal to use the MG other than in the prone position?
Does ramboing kill a server?
Are these sole reasons as to why a server's numbers would decrease?
Is 'MG Spamming' a sole reason as to why the Anzio server's number decreases?
I don't believe limiting the MG class is pinpointing this particular server when numbers are down. That's what I'm saying.
If leadership wants to give this a go. That's up to leadership then. Give it a go.
If it works, great!
And if it can be proven that as a direct result of this, Anzio hits the charts and rises because of this specific change... fantastic!
I say this because I want to see our servers be as high as can be in the rankings.
I just don't believe that it will help the server rising necessarily, or that it kills this particular server.
I have yet to think of a solution but, if I do think of one, I'll let leadership know in time.
My opinion, is an opinion based upon my own observation.
Whether biased or not informed enough, respect it a bit more rather than calling it 'false assumptions' (Simply because that kind of statement alone is difficult to prove when an assumption or observation is exactly what it is... which is an assumption or opinion which can be wrong or right, etc.). Just call them 'assumptions' or 'observations' next time.
I said things in my post the way I did, to leave room for error, as I don't know all on this server nor am I on it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I like to do that so that, when people with other information and opinons come along, they can share and enlighten me on what I do not know or the opinions that they have.
Wasn't sure that was what this discussion was purely about...
Limiting a class on the Anzio server to increase it's server rank... discussing what kills the server... let's keep it to that
Call me biased about usage on the MG... maybe you could but, I only offered an opinion. Quite frankly, it's an opinion based upon observation of what I've seen and noticed and of course can be wrong or correct... But, the observations I've made are my own and I'd like to think they're at least honest. If you want to call my honesty 'bias'... that's up to you but hey, I'm not really one to go out and lie about something when I provide an answer to a question or provide an opinion in an open forum.
"Acceptible gameplay"
What is acceptible gameplay... I can only offer what restrictions we have on server like... let's say firing into spawn, or firing nades and rockets into spawn, etc.
A lot of the stickies that are posted on what not to do in server, etc.
I think a game like Day of Defeat Source, most people know what kind of game they're getting themselves into. To give an exact definition "acceptible gameplay" and tell a community "alright guys, this is acceptible gameplay, which means we can do A, B and C... but is not limited to D or E"... Umm yeah...
Here's an impromptu one for DoDs:
You go out, try to achieve objectives by either flag capping, killing the enemy or completing the objectives otherwise. How it is done, is up to the players no matter how creative they may be.
If players wish to come onto the server and just have fun 'killing' then, what am I going to do? Tell them that is unacceptable 'gameplay' or to please keep to the acceptable 'gameplay of completing objectives' even if they might not necessarily want to?
This is why I didn't want to provide exact definitions to this because difficult to provide exact definitions to a number of unlimited forms of gameplay...
Camping MG a 'cop-put' argument...
Call it what you like but, argument nonetheless it is. Camping MGs are apart of the game. They both 'can' harm and are apart of server gameplay... That's what I'm saying.
I think maybe I should ask what 'MG Spam' is? Sounds like there's a great negative connotation over what it is exactly. If using the MG class is 'MG Spam', then isn't anyone who uses the MG whether a little or exclusively an 'MG Spammer'?
I use the MG on Anzio in a unique way because I find it fun and more challenging than being in the prone position. That's the truth why I use the MG on Anzio.
Now, is it illegal to use the MG other than in the prone position?
Does ramboing kill a server?
Are these sole reasons as to why a server's numbers would decrease?
Is 'MG Spamming' a sole reason as to why the Anzio server's number decreases?
I don't believe limiting the MG class is pinpointing this particular server when numbers are down. That's what I'm saying.
If leadership wants to give this a go. That's up to leadership then. Give it a go.
If it works, great!
And if it can be proven that as a direct result of this, Anzio hits the charts and rises because of this specific change... fantastic!
I say this because I want to see our servers be as high as can be in the rankings.
I just don't believe that it will help the server rising necessarily, or that it kills this particular server.
I have yet to think of a solution but, if I do think of one, I'll let leadership know in time.
My opinion, is an opinion based upon my own observation.
Whether biased or not informed enough, respect it a bit more rather than calling it 'false assumptions' (Simply because that kind of statement alone is difficult to prove when an assumption or observation is exactly what it is... which is an assumption or opinion which can be wrong or right, etc.). Just call them 'assumptions' or 'observations' next time.
I said things in my post the way I did, to leave room for error, as I don't know all on this server nor am I on it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I like to do that so that, when people with other information and opinons come along, they can share and enlighten me on what I do not know or the opinions that they have.
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Spartacus,
Firstly, I never called you a liar and I do not know where you came to that conclusion. Being biased and a liar are different and independent of one another.
That being said, your opinions are of course valid and we want to hear them. However, in your original post you suggested and heavily implied that leadership made this decision on a whim, and that is far from the truth. You also had several misunderstandings in your reasoning for your arguments, which I felt the need to clear up.
Lastly, calling out some of your assumptions as false has nothing to do with whether or not I have respect for you or your opinions. Its a courtesy to let people know when they are wrong or not completely understanding a situation, and I don't believe I have done it in an immature or unprofessional manner. Furthermore, if you are going to present your side of the argument on anything as strongly as you have here, you'd better be prepared to be wrong or at the very least, corrected. If you do not want to be questioned in your arguments, I suggest sticking to pure facts, as they are harder to pull apart.
Again, if I did not respect or care for your opinions, I would not address them here. I understand your side of the argument along with Sumac's concerns, and both were considered when this decision was being made. We will try out this alteration to our server and if it works, great. If it does not, we will reverse it. Keep the concerns and suggestions coming, guys, this is a healthy process.
-Blue
Firstly, I never called you a liar and I do not know where you came to that conclusion. Being biased and a liar are different and independent of one another.
That being said, your opinions are of course valid and we want to hear them. However, in your original post you suggested and heavily implied that leadership made this decision on a whim, and that is far from the truth. You also had several misunderstandings in your reasoning for your arguments, which I felt the need to clear up.
Lastly, calling out some of your assumptions as false has nothing to do with whether or not I have respect for you or your opinions. Its a courtesy to let people know when they are wrong or not completely understanding a situation, and I don't believe I have done it in an immature or unprofessional manner. Furthermore, if you are going to present your side of the argument on anything as strongly as you have here, you'd better be prepared to be wrong or at the very least, corrected. If you do not want to be questioned in your arguments, I suggest sticking to pure facts, as they are harder to pull apart.
Again, if I did not respect or care for your opinions, I would not address them here. I understand your side of the argument along with Sumac's concerns, and both were considered when this decision was being made. We will try out this alteration to our server and if it works, great. If it does not, we will reverse it. Keep the concerns and suggestions coming, guys, this is a healthy process.
-Blue
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I know I'm new around here and my opinion doesn't matter all that much but I'll throw in my 2 cents.
If we're talking about the issue of having a small amount of ppl on a server, say 3v3 or 4v4, and someone MG'ing being the reason for that? As much as I hate the MG and someone proned in a corner, I can almost view a skilled sniper as being roughly the same in a small server situation. So why not limit that number too?
The MG is part of the game and ppl know in joining a server that it is a possibility. I don't think the MG is the only reason that Anzio isn't full all of the time. I think a bigger issue might be that FF is turned on. Personally I like that it's on but I'm sure a lot of ppl don't want to worry about firing at everything that moves. Anzio is a much different map then Avalanche or Donner too. The game play is totally different. A MG is far more devastating to a low pop server on Donner then Anzio.
The MG is as much a part of this game as any other weapon. Limiting it to 2 imo is enough. It is a game after all and if you take away something someone likes to do, then what keeps them playing?
That's my opinion FWIW. I don't really care either way. I play the game for fun and could careless about my k:d. Just don't take out the bazooka.
If we're talking about the issue of having a small amount of ppl on a server, say 3v3 or 4v4, and someone MG'ing being the reason for that? As much as I hate the MG and someone proned in a corner, I can almost view a skilled sniper as being roughly the same in a small server situation. So why not limit that number too?
The MG is part of the game and ppl know in joining a server that it is a possibility. I don't think the MG is the only reason that Anzio isn't full all of the time. I think a bigger issue might be that FF is turned on. Personally I like that it's on but I'm sure a lot of ppl don't want to worry about firing at everything that moves. Anzio is a much different map then Avalanche or Donner too. The game play is totally different. A MG is far more devastating to a low pop server on Donner then Anzio.
The MG is as much a part of this game as any other weapon. Limiting it to 2 imo is enough. It is a game after all and if you take away something someone likes to do, then what keeps them playing?
That's my opinion FWIW. I don't really care either way. I play the game for fun and could careless about my k:d. Just don't take out the bazooka.
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If I'm going to imply something... rather than just 'imply' or 'hint'... I'm gonna let you know straight up, and if it was possible, it'd be face-to-face. I'm that kind of guy so that a message doesn't get misinterpretted.
Did I say Leadership made this decision 'on a whim'? I don't think you could specifically quote me anywhere where that was said. And if I wanted to directly 'imply' that leadership was thinking this or implementing it in this way... I would've just gone on to say 'Hey, leadership is doing this on a whim'... but I didn't.
What I'm saying is, I don't feel what hurts that server is being pinpointing precisely... I have yet to pinpoint what hurts that server (as I don't feel limiting this class will help).
Having all that said. I posted my view simply because it's my view.
This is an open forum, and I don't really care about the 'rights' and 'wrongs' but the discussion of this idea in this forum. I gave my view with the intention of letting people know what I think. If people think my opinion is incorrect, wrong, or what many other things it could be... they are entitled to think that themselves but, I know what I think, I know I didn't make this claim on a whim but actually gave it thought because it was from my own observation.
I didn't say it was right, I just said, I don't think the problem is being pinpointed here.
That is all I implied. I think that has been made fairly clear now. And if it hasn't... That is what I am implying.
As to sticking to pure facts. The facts are that I gave my opinion based upon my observations of when I've been in server. My opinion is limited to my being on the server. That is what that is. Wrong, right... who knows? But, it's definitely an informed opinion based upon observation. So, call it what you like but simply, it's an observation based on what I've seen in server.
As I said before, if it's your wish to try the decision out, then try it out.
If it works, great! If it the server's rank increases as a direct result of this action, fantastic!
If you feel the way that you do about what I have said, that's up to you all individually.
I've said what I needed to say on this matter.
Did I say Leadership made this decision 'on a whim'? I don't think you could specifically quote me anywhere where that was said. And if I wanted to directly 'imply' that leadership was thinking this or implementing it in this way... I would've just gone on to say 'Hey, leadership is doing this on a whim'... but I didn't.
What I'm saying is, I don't feel what hurts that server is being pinpointing precisely... I have yet to pinpoint what hurts that server (as I don't feel limiting this class will help).
Having all that said. I posted my view simply because it's my view.
This is an open forum, and I don't really care about the 'rights' and 'wrongs' but the discussion of this idea in this forum. I gave my view with the intention of letting people know what I think. If people think my opinion is incorrect, wrong, or what many other things it could be... they are entitled to think that themselves but, I know what I think, I know I didn't make this claim on a whim but actually gave it thought because it was from my own observation.
I didn't say it was right, I just said, I don't think the problem is being pinpointed here.
That is all I implied. I think that has been made fairly clear now. And if it hasn't... That is what I am implying.
As to sticking to pure facts. The facts are that I gave my opinion based upon my observations of when I've been in server. My opinion is limited to my being on the server. That is what that is. Wrong, right... who knows? But, it's definitely an informed opinion based upon observation. So, call it what you like but simply, it's an observation based on what I've seen in server.
As I said before, if it's your wish to try the decision out, then try it out.
If it works, great! If it the server's rank increases as a direct result of this action, fantastic!
If you feel the way that you do about what I have said, that's up to you all individually.
I've said what I needed to say on this matter.
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S
Sumac
Meanwhile back on topic, if you have not turned in your 2011 taxes you should soon...time is running out.
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Funny I don't remember this thread being about taxes :confused1:
unless you are using the mg on anzio to relay the message to them. lol
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Holy crap! You're still around?
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This is an outrage! How dare you restrict MGs.
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Agreed. Are snipers going to be restricted too? It would only make sense since the sniper class is the answer to the MG's ability to suppress.
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