DISCUSSION: Move Jail games out of Cell Block?

[RedDragonKnight]

banning cellblock games entirely STILL won't fix anything

It will give those who do not wish to play those games the opportunity to rebel, and without implementing something like this, it's only speculation as to whether or not warden's will adapt and get more creative after actually exploring outside of cell block, though even if they don't, the first half of my point still stands.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

Excellent post Rogue, but banning cellblock games entirely STILL won't fix anything, we just need to encourage creativity amongst wardens.

But again we are not banning the games... We are just stating they should be moved thus allowing people to rebel as mentioned above by RDK

 

[XxDoomxX]

Originally posted by RedDragonKnight
As has been said, the games themselves are not banned, they are just banned from being played in cell block, so no, this is not like banning race from being played on canyon. This gives Ts the chance to rebel if they do not like playing games, and if they do like playing games, its just doing it in a different area.

It actually is just like banning Race on Canyon. I will now compare Canyon's race and cell block games.

• Both are overplayed
• Both offer no chance of rebellion (your only chance in race is hiding in the entrance and running kamakazie at the first gaurd to come near, which is the same as hiding in cells, since both are often checked and cleared)
• Both are non creative (this only goes for cell block games that are known and overused)
• Both are area specific. I am talking about the map built race for this one. You cant play the maps race anywhere else besides where its at. You can however, be creative and create your own race course. Which if the race area in Canyon was banned, this would be the only option, just as moving cell block games out of cell block would be the only option if cell block was banned for games.

Originally posted by RedDragonKnight
This would make a good compromise if people cannot support playing games outside of cellblock only, but it doesn't change the fact that games played in cell block are almost impossible to actually rebel against, which leaves only non rebels satisfied with the change.

Ahh but the goal of the warden is to keep control, stop rebellion, and end up with an LR. I can see your view, as the rebeler, and your dislike of games and areas that aren't in your favor. I can understand the concern of cell block only days, and that's what my time restraint helps fix. However, I find a single game in cell block is a safe and easy way to get RID of the rebelers
And being a warden that likes to keep things under control, you baddies are baddies, and will parish!
But you state your opinions against cell block games because they are impossible to rebel against. I state this:
Being put in the solitary of Station is impossible to rebel against
You could pick out many locations around any map that make it impossible to rebel against, but banning every corner away from doors would not solve anything. But that comparison sir is invalid. FEEL THE WRATH! :chair: haha

Originally posted by Rouge Sniper
Rather do race than sit in cell block all round... Usually people tend to use more of the map when they know it exists. I know many wardens that play on a map like Maximum Redux and go "There's an upstairs race?" because all the do is stuff in cell block, the couch room or outside. Is every warden like this, no. But its the hopes of trying to get them to do new things instead of the same games requiring little effort of being a guard or warden.

"Sit in cell block all round"
Check out the suggested time limit of cell block games! Problem solved!

Originally posted by Rouge Sniper
Suiciding isn't a game. Can't ban the 'kill' command in console so thats a null point.

Narnia doesn't use kill command. But I see where your going with that :thumbup1:

Originally posted by Rouge Sniper
Restricting by a time isn't a good way because it may take wardens a certain time to get the prisoners to the grate, wall, etc. If the guards having mic problems or lagging for a bit this also eats up that time. We usually don't care if people create new games (Like Veridian did with his game) as long as its fair and doesn't break the rules. People can come up with games on the spot or use games they've seen as I have witnessed. No ones stopping them from being creative.

Well if it really takes a warden THAT long to get prisoners to a grate or wall, the warden is DEAD MEAT, and has a lot of excuses for delaying so long .

If you are lagging for a long enough time to affect the round (as many players see happen to me all the time...dang comcast) you probably should pass the warden, and in that time of what I presume to be no orders due to lag (since if the orders were placed before lag, game would keep moving as players are moving to ordered location) the smart Ts would already be surrounding you and your CTs with guns and knifes because they rebelled. Lag wont be fixed by restricting cell block games. And hey, if I lag during a freeday, I dont get a time extension either, it must end at 2:00

If your a warden and are having mic problems, you should pass your warden. Can't warden without a mic, so you shouldn't be warden in the first place.

I know we dont care if players create new games that follow the rules, thats why I suggested the sticky as a place to keep these new games for others to see. Not everyone is on 24/7 to see EVERY NEW GAME TO APPEAR. That's crazy talk. And the reason I suggested it be closed and leadership accessed only is to keep the trolls out and "non eGO" friendly games out too. That way all wardens can be sure a game selected from this list is approved and not controversial. I've asked leadership on numerous occasions if a game I create is allowed. I feel you missed my point. I just want to compile everyone's great ideas. Didn't figure there'd be a problem with that. If you want me to take control of this proposed list just let me know and everyone can PM me their ideas and I'll add them. I just find this would be handy. We offer a rulebook, why not offer a gamebook!

But again we are not banning the games... We are just stating they should be moved thus allowing people to rebel as mentioned above by RDK

See my above response to RDK's post. Sure you can't rebel..easily..but the Wardens doing his/her job, keeping rebelling down. Rebeling isn't a rule of jail, but it is a good fundamental idea. You cant go and complain because good wardens are doing their job. That's like me saying "we should ban vents because as a warden I have no way of controlling the Ts"
Ts must rebel
Wardens must keep them from doing that (and Cts)
I'm not trying to be fully Ct sided here, I love rebeling myself. But I don't find your point to make sense. And really, it is possible to rebel in cell block games. We give you guns, vent cells, and hiding spots. Texan finds a way to leave cell block games "miraculously" and shoot down CTs, why can't you?

I feel I must go back to my hatred of corners. I can't rebel there either! Let's stop nitpicking shal we? If there's a want, there's a way. And remember, banning cell block games puts you THAT much farther from vent cells. Oh how I love sneaking into vents after a cell block games is over and all Ts are moving. I would miss that

That's enough typing for now, great discussion we have going on. A+ to Rouges effort to discuss almost every point made. This I like to see!

-DOOM

 

[Artinz]

Honestly, all this would do is take away from the creative wardens who use some part of cell block for a game. Taking away these games is hurting creative wardens. There needs to be less restrictions on what can be done in jail, not more. The reason why these boring games are often used is because of the current restrictions on jail, there isn't enough room for innovation. So, couch game, simon says, and spray contests are all its going to be. Adding more restrictions doesn't make those games any less playable, all it ends up doing is making it easier for Ts to rebel, and having a day of Ts rebel, and not playing any fun games. These restrictions are what ruin jail.

There won't be a change in what games are played, just where they are played, which isn't the problem.

 

[Captain Killjoy]

The way I see it, having jail games outside the cell block could (and probably will) lead to easier rebellion. It does also provide for a wider selection of games. I would suggest allowing games to take place in or outside of the cell block, with the deciding factor being the wardens discretion!

 

[RedDragonKnight]

... I can see your view, as the rebeler, and your dislike of games and areas that aren't in your favor. I can understand the concern of cell block only days, and that's what my time restraint helps fix ...
But you state your opinions against cell block games because they are impossible to rebel against. I state this:
Being put in the solitary of Station is impossible to rebel against

1. Rebel on the way to race=can't do that when going nowhere.
2. I could just rush a cell block day and do every game I want in cell block unless the time limit was high enough that you might as well just ban games in cell block anyway.
3. Rebel on the way to solitary, or if its solitary treatment, that's refusable.

And on a side note, I play CT far more often than I play T even if I am relatively good at both, so don't think I dislike these games simply because I'm just a rebel.

However, I do think a time limit or some other restriction (if done correctly and without making a rule that's too complex) would be a good compromise if unforseen issues do arise.

Honestly, all this would do is take away from the creative wardens who use some part of cell block for a game.

Most games playable in cell block are playable anywhere.

 

[SigmaMX]

depends on the situation: If the map is T friendly and moving them implies a big risk, I'd say no.

 

[XavierB]

To the people agreeing with this rule: you're making it sound like EVERY SINGLE round you are stuck in cell block playing fl/lr and simon says. To be honest, yesterday when I played jail for 2 hours straight, we didn't have a single round stuck in cell block. I'm not saying a round in cell block never happens but it would happen a maximum of probably 6 times a match, which doesn't seem to bad since it's usually over quite quick since the games aren't very long. But, when it does happen people dislike it, which is where the complaining is coming from. So your solution to this insignificant problem is to ban all games to be played in cell block? This seems very extreme.

I know that I'm going to get replies to this from the usual people like "It's to get the Ts moving to give them chances to rebel and to explore other parts of the map other than cell block" but, almost every single round when I play, we are moved out of cell block into other parts of the map to play games that are not in cell block and PLENTY of rebellions happen when I play.

This problem is almost non existent in my eyes, you're going to ban all games in cell block because of the complaints you get from when this rare occurrence happens. I think we should be re-thinking this issue because jail is fine the way it is.

Go ahead and break down my post to tell me how wrong I am..

EDIT: Just spoke to someone that played jail for 3 and a half hours today and told me that there were no more than 5 boring cell block rounds... 5.

 

[Artinz]

To the people agreeing with this rule: you're making it sound like EVERY SINGLE round you are stuck in cell block playing fl/lr and simon says. To be honest, yesterday when I played jail for 2 hours straight, we didn't have a single round stuck in cell block. I'm not saying a round in cell block never happens but it would happen a maximum of probably 6 times a match, which doesn't seem to bad since it's usually over quite quick since the games aren't very long. But, when it does happen people dislike it, which is where the complaining is coming from. So your solution to this insignificant problem is to ban all games to be played in cell block? This seems very extreme.

I know that I'm going to get replies to this from the usual people like "It's to get the Ts moving to give them chances to rebel and to explore other parts of the map other than cell block" but, almost every single round when I play, we are moved out of cell block into other parts of the map to play games that are not in cell block and PLENTY of rebellions happen when I play.

This problem is almost non existent in my eyes, you're going to ban all games in cell block because of the complaints you get from when this rare occurrence happens. I think we should be re-thinking this issue because jail is fine the way it is.

Go ahead and break down my post to tell me how wrong I am..

I completely agree with you. At this point, its almost too easy for the Ts to rebel.

 

[XavierB]

I completely agree with you. At this point, its almost too easy for the Ts to rebel.

Exactly... giving them more opportunities to rebel by moving them outside will only cause mass rebellions every round which won't be fun for the Cts.

Jail is nice and balanced the way it is now. If you go and play, you'll see.

 

[neon.]

^ Yes.

Why are we all fussing over an issue such as this which in my eyes was almost non-existent in the first place, until put under the spot light. Prior to this, not once had i heard a person complain about it nor query this supposed issue.

Lets just keep it as it is and save such a debate for a more important issue.

 

[Public Masticator]

I agree with Xavier. I too, in the many hours that i play jail rarely see a round where we are in cell block the whole time anymore. Yes i do agree that it was bad and we did have rounds when we were in cell block but these rounds seem to have gone away maybe from all the complaining that was going on in-game when wardens would conduct these rounds so i don't see it as a major issue anymore.

Rogue compared it to the old 'trivia days' that we used to have but i don't see how it is anything like that at the moment. When we played trivia you would be frozen the whole time and the warden would ask you questions and if you didn't pay attention it didn't matter because you just had to hope the T who won didn't pick you too die. Again, these rounds where we are stuck in cellblock are hardly played anymore.

With Simon and LR/FR it is much more interactive and you actually have to participate to try to live and it is also a quick way for CTs to eliminate some of the Ts. I know that it doesn't give you rebellers a chance to rebel but why do you want the rounds to finish so quickly, so you can sit in your cells for another 50 seconds? If we do play these games, they are usually finished within a few minutes and the Ts are asked to move to a new area giving you a chance to rebel anyway so the people who do want to play these games get their chance before the round finishes from everyone rebelling.

If we are moved out of cellblock at the start of the round and rebel every round it is going to make it boring for the CTs and eventually for the Ts. The CTs are there to have fun too and depending on the CTs it isn't always easy to control a group of Ts that are on their way to soccer to play these games and it is much easier to eliminate some of them through these cellblock games and then move them. Eventually if the Ts end up rebelling every round it will become boring for them too, there will be no more excitement when a Texan sneaks away through vents and comes up behind the CTs while playing Simon and kills majority of the team because the CTs wont be conveniently lined up for him watching the other Ts, they will be about the map spread out on the way to the area the Ts are heading.

Your main arguments are that it will be easier to rebel, but what about the Ts who do enjoying playing the Race and Climb built into the maps. They won't have the opportunity to do this if the round ends from most of the team rebelling before they reach the game. Also, Why do you want to make rebelling any easier? It used to be about the challenge of rebelling and rebelling is easy enough already for some people...

 

[MGR]

Na. Don't take away (some) good games just because some wardens are, for lack of a better word, horrible.

 

[Dot350]

Jail is nice and balanced the way it is now. If you go and play, you'll see.

Yes, yes, yes, 100x yes. What I've been trying to say all along. Don't mess with something that isn't broken. This was more of a problem in the past than it is now.

And on a side note, I play CT far more often than I play T even if I am relatively good at both, so don't think I dislike these games simply because I'm just a rebel.

This is meant with no disrespect, but you've admitted you play CT more often so why are you trying to speak for all Ts worldwide and act like this is the biggest problem in the history of CS:S? There are other issues (that are more important in my opinion) that we could be discussing about than this.

I would wager the people that are upset with staying in cell block all round (when it rarely happens) are the people that actually play the games and try to get LR, not the rebels.

 

[RedDragonKnight]

This is meant with no disrespect, but you've admitted you play CT more often so why are you trying to speak for all Ts worldwide and act like this is the biggest problem in the history of CS:S?

I don't see why my opinion would be any lessened because I play CT or because I staunchly defend it.

I would wager the people that are upset with staying in cell block all round (when it rarely happens) are the people that actually play the games and try to get LR, not the rebels.

Judging by the discussions that have been going on, your assumption is completely backwards.

 

[XxDoomxX]

I would personally like to see LESS rules, and jail to be more relaxed.
More rules just makes it that much more complicated to join and play.
Seriously, this isn't a PERP server, this is jailbreak! This is supposed to be the fun server everyone comes to for a less competitive more laid back feel. After clocking in hours on Office or Italy, I always can use a break.

Personally the most memorable moment I have ever had in jailbreak was a few weeks ago when Raul and the gang did the wedding. If you were not there, go watch the vid he made, its all recorded. And the successful wedding attempt ended up in cell block, because that is where the Ts were most under control.

Yeah, we're stuck with some boring games that wont go away and that will always be overplayed. But banning games and game areas is no way to make our game selection bigger. It seems to be an idea in the opposite direction.

Your not going to get rid of simon says, FR/LR, temptation, etc with this ban. They will just be played elsewhere. All your doing is making one less place we can relax and enjoy ourselves in on each map.

And all this ban would do is make the next closest area to cell block become overused. Do you think banning cell block games will really move all rounds to the underplayed race on the back of the map? NO! Wardens will just move all t's to the wall outside cell block for the usual simon says. Bad wardens will always choose the closest spot to cells to play their first game.

All you'll see is box game almost every round on Canyon played first. (sorry if it seems like I pick on Canyon, since it was the default map during DDOS, I feel players are most familiar with it).

But hey, if you want to vote yes for this ban, I hope you are prepared for "Just outside of Cell block only rounds".

Remember, we are not getting rid of the "stale" games everyone complains of and the same games people who vote yes for this ban are listing in their justification for yes.
We are just banning an area for games.
And those games will just move to the next closest area.

The only real way to get the far half of the map played is to get wardens to actually do so, or ban half of the map for gameplay. Because the closest possible area for gameplay from cells will ALWAYS have games played in it.

-DOOM

 

[RedDragonKnight]

...it's only speculation as to whether or not warden's will adapt and get more creative after actually exploring outside of cell block...

Just something I said previously. You're kind of just straight up assuming a worst case scenario, and even then that would probably be better than what we have now.

And I've covered the "even if they do" part multiple times in this thread so I'm not going over it again aside from that last sentence.

 

[Cryptex]

I have deleted posts irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you want other games unbanned (what games are there to unban?) post in the Dropbox or PM me, no further discussion of that will be carried out here.

For clarification: I AM NOT BANNING ANY GAMES. PERIOD. If a game REQUIRES the cell block to be in use, then go for it. I thought I had that in my OP but I may I have deleted it while editing it. For a second time, no games will be banned with this rule, just the ability for them to be played within the Cell Block.

I could honestly care less if wardens just move them outside of the cell block, because even if that happens, at least the terrorists MOVE and have a chance to act.

Many of you are right in the point that perhaps this problem is being overexaggerated, I understand that and that's exactly why this thread was created, to point out these kinds of problems. However, it seems many others do not even understand what I'm trying to do with this rule, let alone its actual components.

 

[XavierB]

As a final note, I think if this rule is set in place...
1. There will be mass rebellions almost every round, making rebelling even more stale than it already is due to how easy it will become.
2. Playing Ct will be become EVEN MORE difficult and boring than it already is when there are rebellions and you get killed during them.
3. Jail will become unbalanced due to the amount of rebellions and it will overall be a matter of the Cts surviving every round.

The almost extinct stale cell block rounds were, in my eyes, just a way to eliminate a few Ts before moving them around the map to certain locations to play certain games. Out of the many times I've seen them happen, they weren't even that bad and we continued on with the round after. Amongst these rounds, there were also mass rebellion days were everyone would do there best to rebel and kill the Cts. So I honestly think jail doesn't need any new rules set in place to fix it because it's not broken.

Also, I could probably guess that no one who has read this thread will be doing a stale cell block round any time soon cause you've realised that everyone hates them, and if the odd player decides to do one once or twice every map or so, deal with it, most of the other rounds you play are fun and full of excitement.

 

[RedDragonKnight]

2. Playing Ct will be become EVEN MORE difficult and boring than it already is when there are rebellions and you get killed during them.

I find the challenge exciting and fun, but thats just me. Other CTs seem content with letting everyone die while they hide in a corner.