Let's Be Serious | The Wrangler and Vita-Saw

N

Nik :D

EGO Zealot
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Sep 5, 2010
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Hey guys, I'm Nik.

So, I was reading around on the UGC Forums and on teamfortress.tv and was looking around on the Highlander Weapon Ban Discussions while seeing the Wrangler and Vita-Saw being the most talked about. For this upcoming UGC Season, the Vita-Saw is banned, but not the Wrangler. I want to hear what you guys, competitive players or not (seeing as Highlander isn't that much different from pubs), have to say about these two weapons.

If you get into a heated argument, learn when to stop yourself so I don't have to ask Idol to loan me his Hammer.

Thanks!

-Nik
 
I got my super serious face on right now. >:l See my super serious face?

What's the reasoning for the Vita-Saw being banned? I could think of other weapons that would seem more deserving.
 
I don't like it when any weapons are banned from competitive play. Both teams have equal opportunity to capitalize on the pros of these weapons and both teams must deal with the cons of the other team being able to use these weapons.

Do these weapons slightly alter the gameplay? Yes. However, learning how to use these weapons to your benefit while simultaneously limiting the other teams access to utilize these weapons is exactly what competitive play is all about.
 
Fraurrix said:
I got my super serious face on right now. >:l See my super serious face?

What's the reasoning for the Vita-Saw being banned? I could think of other weapons that would seem more deserving.
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Take this scenario.

You're playing on cp_granary and your team just took out three members of the other team, causing them to fall back. Their Medic stayed alive and so did yours, keeping Uber %'s the same. Suddenly, your Spy got a backstab on their Medic while he was in yard! Luckily, he was carrying the Vita-Saw, so he is going to get 20% of his Uber back. Now, after your Spy got a pick on that Med, your team decided to push in with Uber and they took out a good amount of players on the other team in order to cap 2, but now you have to build your Uber back up. Guess what? After your Uber was done, the enemy team's Medic spawned up and is already building on the Scout, causing his Uber Advantage to go up higher than yours. Why? Because he has the Vita-Saw, which kept his charge at 20% when it spawned, giving his team the same amount of charge when your team should still be at the advantage that they had.

Now, not sure if you've ever played 6v6 versions of TF2, but if you haven't, I'll let you know now that Uber Advantages are a big deal in this kind of thing. This decides if your team is going to push up or stay back and wait for a player advantage. With that Medic getting that Uber Advantage, its causing for more stalemates on maps that are already stalematey if things are going wrong, with the main example being cp_granary. Not to mention that you lose 10 HP by equipping it, so when you get bombed, its going to kill you quicker than it would when you had no Vita-Saw. Sure, its only 10 HP, but every single amount of HP you have counts.
 
I think that the wrangler is okay, first off it shields me from rockets :) second, it's easier to shoot enemies that are not in the range of your sentry, and third it's just plain cool.
 
Well Wrangler allows for extremely long range use of Sentry Guns. Which is really really annoying unless you got a Spy working his magic.

Given the situation you presented Nik, I guess it's better that the Vita-saw is banned rather than the Wrangler, but I still think both should be banned. Sentry guns with long range advantage completely negates the weakness that sentries have, which is range.
 
Goz said:
Well Wrangler allows for extremely long range use of Sentry Guns. Which is really really annoying unless you got a Spy working his magic.

Given the situation you presented Nik, I guess it's better that the Vita-saw is banned rather than the Wrangler, but I still think both should be banned. Sentry guns with long range advantage completely negates the weakness that sentries have, which is range.
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In all honesty, the range isn't the largest issue at hand. The biggest thing is that it slows down your Uber because you need to take out the Engie, then move into the Sentry, which takes up about 5-6 seconds of your Uber, or 65-75% of it.
 
I understand those bans... specially the vita-saw...
But a must ban for me is the full Saharan set(if you wear it as spy, you have no decloak sound while using the Dead Ringer)...
 
Big thing I can see is the Vita-Saw has no real downside to using it. -10 health yes, but the fact that it stores up to 20% of that uber charge on death kind of negates that downside really.

The wrangler however, I grin anytime I see someone using it in a pub. It's one less weapon for the engi to have on his person, and if he's not careful as heck I'll stab him just after he switches weapons and sap the sentry before it can even begin to target me (or the opposite, sap then stab).

I think the big problem is that there are weapons that have no effective downside in the game. Vita-Saw is debatable obviously, but ones like the old Enforcer setup just have no place in competition IMO.
 
I really think a well placed sentry and a experienced wrangler user can act as an 1 man defender.
It gives opportunity to expand the uses of the engineer. Although, sometimes annoying, I think the wrangler should stay.
 
Well i would post something useful, but I have no experience with competitive TF2...
 
Kaspitone said:
I don't like it when any weapons are banned from competitive play. Both teams have equal opportunity to capitalize on the pros of these weapons and both teams must deal with the cons of the other team being able to use these weapons.

Do these weapons slightly alter the gameplay? Yes. However, learning how to use these weapons to your benefit while simultaneously limiting the other teams access to utilize these weapons is exactly what competitive play is all about.
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I agree with this 100%. I don't understand why you'd ban something from competitive play when everyone has access to it. If it's in the game (legitimately) then it should be allowed.

But then again I only touched competitive play back at launch.
 
mobomelter said:
I agree with this 100%. I don't understand why you'd ban something from competitive play when everyone has access to it. If it's in the game (legitimately) then it should be allowed.

But then again I only touched competitive play back at launch.
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think about it when two teams have engineers that run the pomson and they aim for the enemy medics the whole time. that would slow down gameplay to the point where its just stupid to have.

and im sure no one wants to see a kritz enforcer in action.
 
Nik :D said:
think about it when two teams have engineers that run the pomson and they aim for the enemy medics the whole time. that would slow down gameplay to the point where its just stupid to have.

and im sure no one wants to see a kritz enforcer in action.
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I'm not saying it wouldn't make game play more difficult it just seems weird to remove something that can't be considered unfair since both teams have access to it. Obviously at this point whatever body that says what is banned has already set a precedent for deciding what's allowed so the point is moot.
 
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