My big question ? Long Post sorry

[Puke-N-Snot]

It take a ?lil time to pick up speed but bear with me.

It?s been nagging at the back of my mind for a while & after last weeks ?meet & greet? event it got pushed back to the front so here goes.

I friend-ed a player that I had gamed with a few times on our eGO servers & was in the process of slowly trying to recruit him ( my process is to see them on our servers at least 2 times, friend them & then a slow pitch but hey this is getting off course). And then a few days go by & I noticed he?s playing but not in eGo servers. Sent him a game invite & his reply back is ?I?ll pass?. So later I sent a message asking what was up? The message I get back from him the next day goes something like this. He & 2 of his buddies (whom I was also hoping to recruit one I got him) were in an eGO server & were getting spawned camp rather massively by 3eGo members. I guess this went on for some time before the got frustrated & said something, there happened to be one eGO member on their team whom replied back something to the effect of that?s just our Spawn Room Maintenance division. His response was WTF Ego approves of this & on their own servers? And he & his friends moved on to other servers & hasn?t ( nor do they plan return). He frankly told me that they wanted nothing to do with a clan that would allow that type of activity especially one that would allow it on their own servers, best I could do was apologize to them ?cuz I myself have not intelligent explanation for Spawn Room Maintenance (this is the meat of my post).

Then @ the meet & greet I heard player after player make their introduction & in that introduce was usually ? I like to spawn? camp.

*** Here?s the Meat***
Trying to figure out how a clan that clearly wants everyone to enjoy their time on their servers. Frets endlessly about the rankings of their servers. Even has a Fast Fill Division & encourages members to idle on their own servers to keep their rankings up would not only allow but encourages spawn camping ?
Just seems to goes against eGO?s codes of conduct (see #12) & totally counterproductive when it comes to keeping servers filled & ranked.
Now I?ll admit I?m an old school gamer. One that?s played competitive & league play going back to Quake & UT days and the code I?ve always gone by was, there are 5 things that are looked down upon:
*Hackers, *Glitchers, Spwan Camping ( in a pub server, competitive play is a horse of a different color), Team Stacking (especially by clans), Admins that kick players for no reason ( * = more then looked down upon & the last 3 are in no particular order).
Sorry but I just don?t get it, and I certainly don?t get the fact that there competitive eGO players & Leadership involved.

I do know this I?m not likely to change my stance nor do I expect those on the other side will change their but that doesn?t mean we can?t have an intelligent discussion.

So go ahead, try an enlighten me

 

[Orange [INACTIVE]]

From what I've seen, admins on EGO servers are polite, rational, and give fair warning. I suppose some guests have had a bad experience or two but for the most part the people with power here are simply great. I'm sure there has been a mistake or two but pointing a finger at the admins isn't right. They're a good crew.

 

[Kiririn]

Spawn camping isn't against rules, nor should it be. If a pub leaves a server because of that reason alone, they should really look at themselves as a player. I mean, no disrespect but it is easy to break a spawn camp. As for clan stacking? I'm not going to join a game with friends and NOT play on their team. I joined to play with them.

As for the whole kicking for no reason, I haven't seen that yet. I better not see it either. My rage will not be matched.

The system can't be babyfied for those who complain about the smallest thing. I'm not a part of FCTF by any means. However, I will not accept the fact that a group of players left because they couldn't take two seconds to switch classes, remove the spawn camper and continue on their merry way. Counter production or not, the eGO community is very firm on their ideals of being "different" and "understanding" to what a player sees as "fun".

 

[Uncle Creepy]

I myself am an avid spawn camper. However, when I see that people are starting to rage quit, I tell the team to back off a bit, so we don't lose the people on our servers. Nico is right though. It's not hard to break a spawn camping chain or whatever.

 

[Sanctified Aberration]

'Spawn Room Maintenance' is a cruel joke. I enjoy killing nubs as much as anyone, but when our more experienced members kill less-skilled players in such a swift and joyless manner I can see how that gets frustrating.

More than anything else, spawn camping is a symptom of teams that are wildly unbalanced. If you are able to do it that means you have map control and that the majority of your foes are too incompetent to defend themselves.

I can certainly see your point, Puke. Spawn camping doesn't really make people want to join or play on our servers. "Well, we didn't want people like them anyway!" I can hear some of you say. Actually, we did. Noobs are the lifeblood of the game. We need them to populate our servers and become the next generation of tf2 players. We should kill them as we teach them how to play, or take the time to switch sides and get them to break the camp, not participate in it.

 

[Ezekiel]

Here I am trying to think of an intelligent way to phrase what I want to say, and Sanctified does a better job than I was coming up with. Well said Puke & Sanctified.

Very much agree. +1

 

[Kiririn]

'Spawn Room Maintenance' is a cruel joke. I enjoy killing nubs as much as anyone, but when our more experienced members kill less-skilled players in such a swift and joyless manner I can see how that gets frustrating.

More than anything else, spawn camping is a symptom of teams that are wildly unbalanced. If you are able to do it that means you have map control and that the majority of your foes are too incompetent to defend themselves.

I can certainly see your point, Puke. Spawn camping doesn't really make people want to join or play on our servers. "Well, we didn't want people like them anyway!" I can hear some of you say. Actually, we did. Noobs are the lifeblood of the game. We need them to populate our servers and become the next generation of tf2 players. We should kill them as we teach them how to play, or take the time to switch sides and get them to break the camp, not participate in it.

I agree to disagree. If you give up because you are getting crushed, you are the kind of gamer that caused people to make games stupid. I'm not by any means trying to be offensive, and I don't like to run off new members. I welcome anyone and everyone to eGO. The people that will post/view this thread is more than likely guilty of all of that from the OP. At least a little bit.

 

[jhnsn]

It take a ‘lil time to pick up speed but bear with me.

It’s been nagging at the back of my mind for a while & after last weeks “meet & greet” event it got pushed back to the front so here goes.

I friend-ed a player that I had gamed with a few times on our eGO servers & was in the process of slowly trying to recruit him ( my process is to see them on our servers at least 2 times, friend them & then a slow pitch but hey this is getting off course). And then a few days go by & I noticed he’s playing but not in eGo servers. Sent him a game invite & his reply back is “I’ll pass”. So later I sent a message asking what was up? The message I get back from him the next day goes something like this. He & 2 of his buddies (whom I was also hoping to recruit one I got him) were in an eGO server & were getting spawned camp rather massively by 3eGo members. I guess this went on for some time before the got frustrated & said something, there happened to be one eGO member on their team whom replied back something to the effect of that’s just our Spawn Room Maintenance division. His response was WTF Ego approves of this & on their own servers? And he & his friends moved on to other servers & hasn’t ( nor do they plan return). He frankly told me that they wanted nothing to do with a clan that would allow that type of activity especially one that would allow it on their own servers, best I could do was apologize to them ‘cuz I myself have not intelligent explanation for Spawn Room Maintenance (this is the meat of my post).

Then @ the meet & greet I heard player after player make their introduction & in that introduce was usually “ I like to spawn” camp.

*** Here’s the Meat***
Trying to figure out how a clan that clearly wants everyone to enjoy their time on their servers. Frets endlessly about the rankings of their servers. Even has a Fast Fill Division & encourages members to idle on their own servers to keep their rankings up would not only allow but encourages spawn camping ?
Just seems to goes against eGO’s codes of conduct (see #12) & totally counterproductive when it comes to keeping servers filled & ranked.
Now I’ll admit I’m an old school gamer. One that’s played competitive & league play going back to Quake & UT days and the code I’ve always gone by was, there are 5 things that are looked down upon:
*Hackers, *Glitchers, Spwan Camping ( in a pub server, competitive play is a horse of a different color), Team Stacking (especially by clans), Admins that kick players for no reason ( * = more then looked down upon & the last 3 are in no particular order).
Sorry but I just don’t get it, and I certainly don’t get the fact that there competitive eGO players & Leadership involved.

I do know this I’m not likely to change my stance nor do I expect those on the other side will change their but that doesn’t mean we can’t have an intelligent discussion.

So go ahead, try an enlighten me

^For those that don't like color^

I am sure that others are going to say what they will, but let me tell you that it is not just cut and dry. Behind the scenes, there are...tensions...within leadership and admins about the subject of spawn camping. Most people absolutely love it while others vehemently hate it. Unfortunately, it all comes down to this: there is no rule explicitly banning spawn camping from our servers, so for now at least, it stays.

There are, however, a few quotes I would like to bring up. In the battlefield division "On Conquest you may not enter the enemy uncap for any reason. Also you may only shoot into their spawn if they are shooting out." This is a warn kick ban offense. On Day of Defeat servers, "the rule has always been on eGO servers any player is allowed to kill any player anywhere as long as they as are not in the act of spawning." I am sure that if I had access to COD and CS private, I could find more quotes, but sadly, I don't. Regardless, as you can see, spawn camping is not allowed in other divisions. Perhaps we should rethink our situation.


EDIT: Well, it seems that in the time it took me to write that post, the thread went beyond me

 

[Kiririn]

^For those that don't like color^

I am sure that others are going to say what they will, but let me tell you that it is not just cut and dry. Behind the scenes, there are...tensions...within leadership and admins about the subject of spawn camping. Most people absolutely love it while others vehemently hate it. Unfortunately, it all comes down to this: there is no rule explicitly banning spawn camping from our servers, so for now at least, it stays.

There are, however, a few quotes I would like to bring up. In the battlefield division "On Conquest you may not enter the enemy uncap for any reason. Also you may only shoot into their spawn if they are shooting out." This is a warn kick ban offense. On Day of Defeat servers, "the rule has always been on eGO servers any player is allowed to kill any player anywhere as long as they as are not in the act of spawning." I am sure that if I had access to COD and CS private, I could find more quotes, but sadly, I don't. Regardless, as you can see, spawn camping is not allowed in other divisions. Perhaps we should rethink our situation.

I'm blown away by this. Making it against the rules is....facepalmish. If it wasn't a part of the game and had to be done via third party programs or anything like that, then yeah do something about it. But this is something that is in every game. Maybe in those other games it is against the rules because it isn't as easy to break the camp like in TF2. If this becomes against the rules on TF2, I'll strongly re-think leadership. I would love to say it again, I'm not part of FCTF in anyway, but I don't see a reason to crucify this as a "problem" when it is something that can be dealt with by ANYONE.

 

[spidEY]

If you are getting crushed by spawn camping I think you need to rethink your playing strategies. It takes mere seconds to kill the person who's doing it, you just need to think a little.

There also aren't any rules about "team stacking" either. It's all apart of the game. Deal with it.

 

[Sanctified Aberration]

Nobody likes getting crushed, and I am not interesting in being highly ranked in a bunch of depopulated servers. Some of you seem to have completely forgotten what its like to break into a new game. CS is downright vicious to get into, and I would hate for tf2 to be that way.

As for team stacking, I could have sworn that I saw a post not too long ago warning against going spec to end up on the winning team (I might have hallucinated that, though).

Edit: Good post mwjhnsn- it is enlightening to get some perspective on how the other divisions do handle this sort of thing.

 

[Uncle Creepy]

If you are getting crushed by spawn camping I think you need to rethink your playing strategies. It takes mere seconds to kill the person who's doing it, you just need to think a little.

There also aren't any rules about "team stacking" either. It's all apart of the game. Deal with it.

This. ALL OF THIS. Seriously though, spidEY is spot on here.

 

[jhnsn]

Spawn camping isn't against rules, nor should it be. If a pub leaves a server because of that reason alone, they should really look at themselves as a player. I mean, no disrespect but it is easy to break a spawn camp. As for clan stacking? I'm not going to join a game with friends and NOT play on their team. I joined to play with them.

As for the whole kicking for no reason, I haven't seen that yet. I better not see it either. My rage will not be matched.

The system can't be babyfied for those who complain about the smallest thing. I'm not a part of FCTF by any means. However, I will not accept the fact that a group of players left because they couldn't take two seconds to switch classes, remove the spawn camper and continue on their merry way. Counter production or not, the eGO community is very firm on their ideals of being "different" and "understanding" to what a player sees as "fun".

This is true, and I agree entirely. Unfortunately, I am not thinking of myself, but rather of the public players, many of which, though not all, are not very good at this game, and don't realize how to break a spawn camp. I can understand spawn camping when you are playing in a server full of experienced players, but against pubs, there is honestly little point. What do you get from killing people who don't know how to fight back? Their motto is "it improves the game for 50% of the players," but what player enjoys running around an empty map doing nothing because the enemy team can't walk outside their spawn? You mention reputation at the end. Yes, we support understanding different "types" of fun, but more accurately, we support fun for everyone. Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that it should be banned, but I am proposing that it be restricted.

 

[Uncle Creepy]

Nobody likes getting crushed, and I am not interesting in being highly ranked in a bunch of depopulated servers. Some of you seem to have completely forgotten what its like to break into a new game. CS is downright vicious to get into, and I would hate for tf2 to be that way.

As for team stacking, I could have sworn that I saw a post not too long ago warning against going spec to end up on the winning team (I might have hallucinated that, though).

I saw that post too. I think it was in tf2's eGO private forums? Yeah, going spec to be on the winning team isn't cool. It's just better to deal with it for the time being, and wait for the autobalance/teamswitch thing to happen

 

[jhnsn]

Anyways, as this is speedily going out of hand, I'm going to get out while I still can.

Final words:
Nico, I am not saying ban it, rather restrict it to times when it will be less hurtful, such as when teams are at high enough levels that they have the manpower to counter it.
Sanctified, you make a good point, there is no fun in playing on an empty server.
And with that, I'm gone

 

[Kiririn]

For Sanctified, I do completely agree with the non-team stacking, don't get that wrong. But what I'm saying is that, if I join a game and JUST joined. I'm going to wait for my friends team to open up. I'm not going to force auto balance to stack the game. That is cowardice.

For mwjhnsn, I thank you for elaborating, and I think being rough on people inspires more...persistence.

However, the things I've said are merely my beliefs, not law

Also, if it were to be restricted, that would just encourage people to do it more. People love to break rules.

 

[Ezekiel]

Just to clarify my own thoughts on the subject:

I have nothing against casual spawn camping in general. It can help with capture of a final point temporarily, for example. But that's not what the FCTF is doing, at least not when I've seen them doing their thing. Yes, it's not that hard to kill someone spawn camping....but it gets VERY hard to kill some with a pocket medic (or two!) who are purposefully there to spawn camp. Telling people it's all part of "spawn room maintenance" is just adding insult to injury...it makes people rage and leave. It's not at all conducive to recruiting and making pubs want to stay on our servers.

We have to remember: most of our players are pubs who have ZERO vested interest in eGO or in our servers. Purposefully antagonizing people accomplishes nothing, even if it is completely legal.

 

[Puke-N-Snot]

Sadly it seems I made my post too long for some to comprehend.

So here's the cliff note version>
How is having a Division of Spawn Camping not counter productive to eGO and it's servers?


It's NOT about Team Stacking or anything else. It's not even about should players on the other end of the spawn camping being able to break the spawn camping or should it be against the rules.

I repeat - How is having a Division of Spawn Camping not counter productive to eGO and it's servers? eGO TF2 has an "official" division dedicated to the act of spawn camping therefore eGO leadership has lent it's approval. And I'm just asking how it helps eGO as a clan or it's servers?

From the story I relayed in the original post, it didn't help eGO at all, lost a potential recruit (or 3)

 

[CrashRIT]

Since i'm at work (on lunch but still) and doesn't feel like writing a paragraph, ill answer pose questions and answer them with my viewpoints.

Does spawn camping contribute to a lower server ranking? Partially
Does spawn camping turn away possible recruits, dedicated players? YES
Does spawn camping being promoted break our rules? No
Does spawn camping contribute to a fun gaming experience? Depends which end you're on
Does spawn camping cause frustration, rule breaking the admin action? Frequently, esp on Harvest
Does spawn camping lead to a stronger team with a single purpose to defeat spawn camping? Not usually
Should spawn camping be frowned upon? Yes
Should spawn camping be disallowed? No
Occurrence of spawn camping: I'll see it maybe 1 day of every 7-14 days I'm online. (days include any time played, not a whole 24 hrs).

 

[Qwence]

Okay, okay. I disagree with the idea that spawn camping is evil. As stated, it's easy to break. And even on competitive matches, I have seen spawn camping! It is a strategy, and even on 6v6 or Highlander, without five of each class, they break it. Yes, it may take a while. Yes, it may be annoying as heck. Yes, it may want to make you tear your hair out. But it's a part of the game. Believe me, I play on Harvest a lot. And that place is spawn camp heaven. But I get used to it, and we just move on.