Anti-Engineer strategy aka : How to kill the Gunslinger

[The_Polish_Pyronaut]

This is mostly for the newer members of the division who I have dominated and scared off the servers when I play battle engie. The battle engie is a unique powerhouse that in that:

*In the hands of a bad player will spam mini sentries and hoard up on crit shots for the frontier justice before doing a kamikaze run.
*In the hands of a good player control the front lines of the battle field by
*Constantly setting up and moving teleporters for the team
*Placing dispensers at chokepoints to help the team hold the line
*Providing temporary area coverage that will alert/dispose of would be flankers

For me playing battle engie has 3 tactics to it.

Area Information

More Gun

Support

Support: I have more or less explained in what a good engineer does naturally with his buildings. Bring teammates to the front lines faster, provide an area of relative safety from the opposing enemy they don't have to worry too much about and a means of quick health/ammunition .
More gun, a classic mantra of the engineer brought about by the fact that the engineer has four means of doing damage. Shotgun, Pistol, Melee, Sentry. As for battle engie I prefer to go for the most reliable mobile dps I can get from the class which Stock shotgun/pistol with the gunslinger. With the mini providing a means of distraction and damage added to my own guns thats three sources of bullet damage right there.

Area Information: I touched on this lightly but this is the most important and ignored aspect by the engineer. Knowing where your enemy is gives a huge advantage if you are by yourself or not paying attention to whats going on around you. By laying my building around key locations I can tell where an enemy is and generally what class they are by the kill icon.
This is helpful in not only relaying the information to my teammates but giving me an idea how divided the opposing team is as well as my own odds of dealing with them. Solider takes out my tele entrance at battlements on 2Fort, run to my sentry and prepare to repair and take out solider.

Add the mini to the mix and that little aim bot not only tells me when someone is trying to flank me but points in their general direction. Something that has lead me to quickly hunt down several scouts and spys.

Now with this information how does one go about killing the good battle engies? Well here is a quick breakdown of the different classes and what to use.

Scout: To go against me you need to either dash in and get in a quick meat shot before running off and finishing me with your pistol or break out your short stop and peck me from a distance while keeping me from any health packs/metal. Do not charge in directly at me as I'll just weaken you with my pistol and finish you with my shotgun if my mini does not take care of you.

Solider: Direct Hit is your best weapon for quickly dealing with my mini's but watch your clip count as I'm counting how many rockets you have while peppering you with my pistol. You need 2 rockets to take out as many mini's I can lay down and then try and hit me with the remaining two before you have to reload. Your lack of splash damage means you must be great at leading your shots though you can almost always expect I will run towards the nearest source of metal to lay down another mini. Use that knowledge to take me out there.

Pyro: Thanks to my mini I almost always see you coming behind me. You have to stay out of range and get me with 2x shots from your flair gun or get in close for a quick flame and axtinguisher kill.

Demo: You have the best weapon to take me out. That sticky bomb launcher of yours is made just to counter my class. You can take out my sentry and me in one swoop with a quick placement on the mini and one or two in the general direction I am running before finishing with pills or a melee strike.

Engineer's: If you are manning a level 3 know that your time is a limited one. Unless you are alone I know I don't have much chance at taking you by myself so I will set up a teleporter exit nearby to summon teammates to run in to kill you. If you are alone I will consider the placements of your buildings and take out your dispenser by firing at it and your sentry till you are out of metal and go after you. If possible I will lead you out by bating you with my mini and pick you off with my pistol before taking out your sentry. If you are running gunslinger as well the it becomes a showdown with our minis for a moment focusing on each other while I empty both my pistol and shotgun into you. To deal with me is to not always focus on keeping your buildings in top health and not straying too far away from your sentry. During the showdown you just have to be the faster draw and damage me faster than I can damage you.

Heavy: You big fella I tend to avoid a direct one on one. I'll distract you with my mini and try to flank to your blind side before emptying my shotgun into your gut. Don't get distracted by the mini as you are big enough to take it for a few seconds. Quickly look for me and fire while moving out of range of my mini.

Sniper: Pay attention to your surroundings slim. You know you're a marked target by spys so I should not be able to get close to you. Pick me off from a distance as I should be your #1 target for a headshot if you don't see a medic. Should I do get close to you get behind cover till I'm close and come at me with what you call a true knife.

Medic: Doc you are my #1 target. When you are healing someone you are a sitting duck since most of the time your patient gets distracted by my mini. When you see me switch to your needle gun and rain those shots down on me while moving behind your man and resume healing me.

Spy: I hate you bloody backstabbers and how you fool my sentry's. The Red Tape Recorder is your friend as it keeps my mini disabled longer then a regular sapper and I don't bother taking them off. I am always on the lookout for you guys but I know I'll get stabbed eventually when I jump into the thick of it. Once I get a feeling for your play style I'll adjust mine to deal with it so you better be a sharp shot with the amby as those headshots are your best bet of taking me out with minimal risk to yourself.

Teamwork: Nothing takes me down faster then solid teamwork. I might get one or two of you but I can't stop a full push even with my mini. Best I can do is just slow you down and damage you enough that my team can finish the job and hold the line till I get there to resume that job.

 

[Nix]

Well, I've found that pyro, when done right, is actually effective against you.

First, take advantage of tight spaces and maneuvering to get close without being spotted.
Second (The trickiest part), kill the mini and the subsequent one while dodging your shotgun.
Third, kill you.

 

[Kiririn]

A good gunslinger Engi is one of the most frustrating things to play against in the world.


But, to my advantage, I never have a problem with them. I main Medic/Engi now. So I'm the annoying one now :3

But, the ideals and methods in this are very viable and I like the way you explained it. But, sadly telling people this and having them apply it to their playstyle are completely different


You may have told them my kryptonite, but it will not save them.

 

[The_Polish_Pyronaut]

A good gunslinger Engi is one of the most frustrating things to play against in the world.


But, to my advantage, I never have a problem with them. I main Medic/Engi now. So I'm the annoying one now :3

But, the ideals and methods in this are very viable and I like the way you explained it. But, sadly telling people this and having them apply it to their playstyle are completely different


You may have told them my kryptonite, but it will not save them.

Oh I did not tell them to to counter you I did it so they will counter me. When I go in to a match and know what to expect and how to maneuver I start to get bored. Nothing is more boring then a spy who you can spot from across the map or running up t a heavy-medic combo and walking away alive and unhurt.

If I don't encounter a challenge I as an engineer will not improve, I've listed as many of my current weaknesses as I could think of that I know kill me more often then not. I am hoping to now encounter them more on the server and be forced to step up my game and learn how to counter them as naturally as I counter a scout.

One of my proudest moments was a few days ago when I was fighting spiDEY. He was spy and I was engie as usual. In the beginning he was giving me some trouble as I have never encounter a spy that could vanish like he could with the DR but I quickly caught onto his spy style and was able to predict his movements. After several rounds and kills resulting from my spy senses tingling (which results me going into paranoid engineer mode and suddenly shooting at where I suspect there is an invisible spy) spiDEY said I was the most dangerous engineer he has ever met. From a guy who has played as long as spiDEY I think thats the biggest compliment I can get as an engineer.

 

[Shiznoe]

You will never kill the gunslinger >

Anyways, at least I learned what I need to look out for when I play engie....

 

[The_Polish_Pyronaut]

You will never kill the gunslinger >

Anyways, at least I learned what I need to look out for when I play engie....

There is much more an Engineer needs to look out for I just listed what currently kills me the most and makes it harder for me to be an effective battle engie.

 

[Kiririn]

If spidEY was as good as spy as you let on, I'd be impressed. However, in my short time of playing (I've only played since September of 2012). I've accrued 900+ hours of TF2, in which I have worked hard as spy. If I was on a computer playing with more than 10 FPS, I'm sure I'd be more than a handful.


Not to knock spidEY of course. I do fancy him after all. But, his spy play compared to that of the better spies (Not trying to toot my own horn), isn't very scary xP

I'm no Stabby Stabby, but I'm learning quickly. Once I receive my new computer, I'll be sure to hunt you down :3

 

[Goz]

If spidEY was as good as spy as you let on, I'd be impressed. However, in my short time of playing (I've only played since September of 2012). I've accrued 900+ hours of TF2, in which I have worked hard as spy. If I was on a computer playing with more than 10 FPS, I'm sure I'd be more than a handful.


Not to knock spidEY of course. I do fancy him after all. But, his spy play compared to that of the better spies (Not trying to toot my own horn), isn't very scary xP

I'm no Stabby Stabby, but I'm learning quickly. Once I receive my new computer, I'll be sure to hunt you down :3

lol when spidEY's using DR and Spy-cicle.

No but honestly, it's not hard to escape with the DR.

Will eventually return to stabbing everyone again.

/cries

 

[The_Polish_Pyronaut]

If spidEY was as good as spy as you let on, I'd be impressed. However, in my short time of playing (I've only played since September of 2012). I've accrued 900+ hours of TF2, in which I have worked hard as spy. If I was on a computer playing with more than 10 FPS, I'm sure I'd be more than a handful.


Not to knock spidEY of course. I do fancy him after all. But, his spy play compared to that of the better spies (Not trying to toot my own horn), isn't very scary xP

I'm no Stabby Stabby, but I'm learning quickly. Once I receive my new computer, I'll be sure to hunt you down :3

Well compared to the average spys I encountered he has a lot more skill. Maybe it was the rust from the months I was away but considering there was not a lot of players on the server at the time I found it impressive how he was able to escape. Mainly how he seemed to keep switching watched threw me off as I could never truly tell if he was dead or not. (I was not actively counting my kills to check on the score board nor was I really checking to see if I took ammo/metal from his fallen weapon.

I do look forward to seeing how your spy skills stack up against me and my contraptions Kiririn. I did sock spiDEY later on in a match where I did play as spy and he called me out on it. To know your enemy is to know yourself and to ensure that I fully understand what it means to be an Engineer I have invested some time as a spy and gotten quite good at it. That knowledge has made me a better engineer as I know how you spys think and what you will most likely do under certain situations.

So again best of luck Kiririn as a spy against me and same to anyone else. I look forward to it.

 

[Ledzo]

When I see you on a server polish, i change classes to... Demoman! As usual!

 

[Goz]

Usually Amby's the best way to go as Spy against a good Gunslinger. Engie's got no range against an Amby. Plus the Amby's actually pretty handy at building destruction from a distance.

Just be aware that Spy's revolvers have relatively little ammo.

A trickstab could work but you can count on it missing and even if it hits, the Mini's likely to finish you off if you don't have a DR ready.

Sapping seems to be more detrimental to a Spy's success against Gunslingers than helpful because Minis are so cheap. Sapping just reveals the Spy's presence.

 

[The_Polish_Pyronaut]

Sapping seems to be more detrimental to a Spy's success against Gunslingers than helpful because Minis are so cheap. Sapping just reveals the Spy's presence.

Yes just like with nuclear war and tick-ta- toe the only way for a spy to win is to not sap my contraptions. Unlike a turtle engie you gain nothing by trying to bait a battle engie unless you are luring him into a pincer move with other teammates backing you up.

 

[Jawneh]

Sap Sentry -> Run away (and cloak) -> Engy goes whack sapper -> Stab Engy

The simplest plan for any Spy, but it still works wonders. Even against Gunslingers. Main thing you have to worry about is other people being too close to the Engy/Sentry that might see/hear you sap. Other than that most times Gunslingers are an easy disguise for my Eternal Reward.

I can't say it works against you since I don't remember playing against you anytime in the immediate past. Maybe I would get slaughtered.

Also spidEY is a banana.

 

[The_Polish_Pyronaut]

Sap Sentry -> Run away (and cloak) -> Engy goes whack sapper -> Stab Engy

The simplest plan for any Spy, but it still works wonders. Even against Gunslingers. Main thing you have to worry about is other people being too close to the Engy/Sentry that might see/hear you sap. Other than that most times Gunslingers are an easy disguise for my Eternal Reward.

I can't say it works against you since I don't remember playing against you anytime in the immediate past. Maybe I would get slaughtered.

Also spidEY is a banana.

That strategy is more useful for the engineer who maintain a net. Most gunslingers tend to ignore the sapper on their mini as they are not close enough to bother unsapping it. I let mine die all the time that was which is why the Red Tape Recorder is effective against me in giving Spys that extra edge. They kill the mini's slower meaning they leave me with just two guns to use over my three.