Which do you think has more importance? Medic/Engineer

Misterboy

Misterboy

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Well hello there! I have no idea where I thought of this question, but I thought I would like to hear some of my fellow player's opinions on this. I am directing this question towards Dustbowl CP, mainly because that's all I play. If you want to answer it for other maps/game styles, feel free.

What, in your opinion, has more importance on the team? Medics, or Engineers?

If you could, please answer the question in BOTH attack and defense scenarios.
 
Medics are far more vital to teams than most people seem to realize. I don't know what caused it, but it seems that in recent months the number of times a team will go several rounds with 0 Medics has greatly increased from how it used to be.

I think they are the more important class between Medic and Engineer, mostly because Medics are more mobile. Engineers, by and large, are more useful in a Defense situation but their usefullness is diminished in Attack scenarios. This is excluding the small number of engies that can move up with the attacking team well enough to be useful.

Medics on the other hand are very useful in both Defense and Attack scenarios. A good Medic can be the thing needed for a successful push or an attempt to hold a point.
 
It's harder to win without a good medic than to win without a good engineeer.

That's about it..
 
I have to go with engie. He can make teles, and give his teammates health and ammo. A medic is always needed but, if that medic is constantly getting killed then the team won't be able to survive long.
Oh, and it also depends on what side your on. Offense or defense.
 
You need both. The engineer to teleport and support your team, while keeping the other team from pushing you too far back. Well, medics are medics!
 
I would also have to say engie just because they can do what the medic can except for ubercharge and also provide a very great defense and offense for any team.
 
It's all situational really. Generally, when attacking or pushing, you want a medic. When defending or holding a position, you want an engie. Usually you want both, but one has a priority. When you're attacking, an uber pushes you though (as long as your team knows how to work an uber push), when you're defending, a sentry wards off enemies and acts as something to draw attention.

On blue, you want medic as priority for capping the first point, then to get to second point, an engie with a teleporter is critical ALONG SIDE a medic. On red, you want to defend your first point with a sentry, and have a teleporter to get you to front lines, with a medic to help maintain the line of combat away from your engie nest, and at the second point, an engie defending is important, but to push back attackers, a medic is critical along side the engie, to destroy teleporters and defended forward positions.

Conclusion: Throughout a game and on both sides, priorities change on each one, medic and engie, so overall, EQUALLY IMPORTANT ON BOTH SIDES, A BALANCED TEAM IS A WINNING TEAM.
 
Medics:
-Only heals heavies
-Only ubers when his own life is in trouble
-Needle gun is useless except on spys and scouts
-Crossbow is great, but only with people who use lucksman.

Engie:
-Can create hell with gunslinger/frontier justice
-Can be perfect offensive engie with jag and ranger
-All shotguns are OP, especially Pomson
-Can be awesome defence with Widowmaker/Short Circuit/Eureka
-Can heal ALL teammates at key points in maps.
-Can use teleporter for good or evil
-Distracts spies from killing real targets
-Dances


Are we still talking about this?
 
Medics. There's a reason why you can only have one in 6s.

Also, Dan, you're comparing bad medics with good engineers. It's an inconsistent fallacy.
 
Dan Hunter said:
Medics:
-Only heals heavies
-Only ubers when his own life is in trouble
-Needle gun is useless except on spys and scouts
-Crossbow is great, but only with people who use lucksman.

Engie:
-Can create hell with gunslinger/frontier justice
-Can be perfect offensive engie with jag and ranger
-All shotguns are OP, especially Pomson
-Can be awesome defence with Widowmaker/Short Circuit/Eureka
-Can heal ALL teammates at key points in maps.
-Can use teleporter for good or evil
-Distracts spies from killing real targets
-Dances


Are we still talking about this?
Click to expand...

I disagree on what you said about the medic.

-No, we don't only heal heavies. I try to heal everyone as much as I can even when I'm pocketing. Other people do this aswell, I'm just giving an example.

-Again, I haven't really seen anybody do this but, if you're healing someone, for example, and a lot of guys run up and start killing you, you're not going to waste your uber! If it only kills 2 people, oh well. It's better than zero. And if you can take down a sentry, awesome.

-Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on their health, where you are at, and how many people you have helping you. The gun isn't the main purpose of the medic.

-I personally don't prefer the crossbow, but whatever floats your boat ;)
 
Well since you want to talk about this in the context of DB, might as well.

Because the map's essentially an extremely long choke point, engies wreck face with sentries. On defense anyway. The defending team moves back anyway, so forward sentry positions on offense kinda don't matter. Teles are nice on offense, but the time it takes to get from spawn to the point isn't that much so it's negligible.

But medics can uber people and destroy the sentry as well as continue with the carnage. Uber's also the best option against another uber, so good defensive there. Kritz just destroys people as long as there isn't a sentry. (which isn't likely on DB, but makes kritz an excellent defensive option) Ubers are also great for last min. saves when the demo spam on DB's getting to you or if you accidentally run into a sentry.

So in terms of DB, engies are excellent on defense, but medics can do offense and defense. Therefore medic's a better choice. (not to say that engie isn't important either)

Dan Hunter said:
Medics:
-Only heals heavies
-Only ubers when his own life is in trouble
-Needle gun is useless except on spys and scouts
-Crossbow is great, but only with people who use lucksman.

Engie:
-Can create hell with gunslinger/frontier justice
-Can be perfect offensive engie with jag and ranger
-All shotguns are OP, especially Pomson
-Can be awesome defence with Widowmaker/Short Circuit/Eureka
-Can heal ALL teammates at key points in maps.
-Can use teleporter for good or evil
-Distracts spies from killing real targets
-Dances


Are we still talking about this?
Click to expand...

Medic:
1. You're implying that Medics, by default game mechanic, can not heal anyone else. Which is absolutely incorrect.
2. Medics are supposed to Uber when they have seconds left to live. Pop it, don't drop it.
3. You're assuming that needle guns and the crossbow are the only defense that Medics have when in danger. Medic melee is pretty decent esp. considering he's the 2nd fastest class in the game. Needle guns serve as great deterrent tools anyway. They're not necessarily for killing people.

Engie:
1. You're assuming Engies are automatically good as long as they have the right loadout.
2. Shotguns have absolutely terrible range aside from the Pomson and require more than decent aim.
3. Again, you're implying that only Engies can heal everyone. Medic heals faster and can actually heal anywhere.
4. You're implying that Engies aren't real threats at all and that it's a waste of time for Spies to be going after them. Which at the same time implies that Medics are more important so your argument there contradicts itself.

Like Mr. Monday pointed out, your argument is full of inconsistencies, fallacies, assumptions, and implications. It is therefore null and void.

That and your attitude is not fitting of a debate/discussion.
 
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Is this a real question? In highlander if the medic leaves, the engie or scout are the first class to switch to medic. Medic is the most valuable class on any team, the engie/scout/spy are the least valuable (assuming equal skill levels). This is true for any regular game type.
 
Last edited:
strabes said:
Is this a real question? In highlander if the medic leaves, the engie or scout are the first class to switch to medic. Medic is the most valuable class on any team, the engie/scout/spy are the least valuable (assuming equal skill levels). This is true for any regular game type.
Click to expand...

I'm not really answering because I'm not qualified. I'm still working on my undergrad thesis in TF2 Tactics. But, let's say we had 3 engies or something like that. If you have a half decent team, that's pretty nigh on as impenetrable as it gets, even if the engis are just average. Are there ways to get around? Of course, and 3 simultaneous ubers could wreck just as much face, BUT a sentry is always vigilant.


Which is more important? Ehh, iono whatever. I'll take a good player over a bad one any day.
 
Engineers can fulfill the Medic's role, and help secure points on the map.

Engineer is credit to team. -Heavy
 
I like engies, they are busy building stuff, easy to stab. All teams should be engies.
 
Clearly people who think engies are more important are used to unorganized pub play where it's worst case scenario both the medic and the engie are bad. Any form of argument here would be like arguing if chopsticks or a fork is better for eating stir fry. Both work if you know how to use them, but sometimes a fork is better, and sometimes chopsticks are better. If you're holding the tines of the fork and stabbing at the chicken with the handle, not much will happen. If you're pretending you're a walrus with the chopsticks, that doesn't accomplish food either.

Basically, a good medic is better than a good engineer, while a bad engineer generally can do more than a heavy-hugging medic that drops 99% of ubers.
 
Medic for all the reasons stated by strabes and spork. I couldn't imagine playing a match where a team didn't have a medic. It would be 5-0 steamroll.
 
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