Which do you think has more importance? Medic/Engineer
- Thread starter Misterboy
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Well I'll put this in my perceptive.
With me my team does better when I'm an Engineer then when I'm a medic.
We win either way but its the results during the game. As a medic I heal everyone near me and pop who seems to do the most damage/needs it at the time I have a charge.
But thats very situational and when I die thats when the opposing team makes a big push/block against us.
As an engineer my primary goal is to put up teleporters and control the front line of the battle field with supporting a choke point with a dispenser and cover fire from my mini's.
I can do more for the team as an engie then I can as a medic and help my team set the tempo of the battle in either helping them overwhelm a defended position or set up one and hold it while running down the clock.
With me my team does better when I'm an Engineer then when I'm a medic.
We win either way but its the results during the game. As a medic I heal everyone near me and pop who seems to do the most damage/needs it at the time I have a charge.
But thats very situational and when I die thats when the opposing team makes a big push/block against us.
As an engineer my primary goal is to put up teleporters and control the front line of the battle field with supporting a choke point with a dispenser and cover fire from my mini's.
I can do more for the team as an engie then I can as a medic and help my team set the tempo of the battle in either helping them overwhelm a defended position or set up one and hold it while running down the clock.
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I know nothing of this of pubs... Why are you trying to debate pub strategy? Obviously the most important is the market gardening solly.
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-A good medic [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNDEQ1gYX9U&list=PLeZV2UXOouwk2nWKbMsaSm-69ZURUTAql"]doesn't[/ame]. That destroys the team dynamic and sets you up for failure as two players can not take on a whole team alone.
-Ubers should be saved. Unless there is a sentry nest or a large team fight, ubers should only be used when either the healer or the one being healed is in a life or death situation.
-If you can land all the shots, the syringe gun is one of the best weapons in the game. You would be surprised how many times I've gone up solo against a heavy and walked out alive, just to regenerate what little health I lost within a few seconds. Don't even get me started on w+m1 pyros either; I don't even have to lead my aim.
-The crossbow is never really used outside of messing around.
I will not stand for someone to insult my favorite class.
In all seriousness, both are necessary! Unless there is a medic to keep your team alive on the front lines, the engy will not have enough time to build up his nest to be able to survive. Unless there is an engy on the back lines, the team will have no line to retreat to if they get hurt or run out of ammo; they will get pushed back all the way to spawn. Both need the other to succeed, so there is really not a better or worse class in this situation. This dynamic is what makes TF2 Team Fortress 2, not Fortress 2. There is no "best class," each has its time and place.
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It sounds like you've been playing with a lot of bad Medics. There are a lot of weak players in general. You don't notice them when they're running around as a Pyro or Soldier and look like they're doing something helpful for the team. You do notice them when they're a pure pocket Medic, sniping from a terrible location, or building a sentry in the middle of nowhere. But everyone starts at zero and has to learn.
A good Medic should be trying to build uber as quickly as possible. That means constantly healing and overhealing various players because the uber rate is faster when a target player is at less than maximum overheal. There are times to pocket a Demo, Heavy, or Soldier too. It's all about reading and reacting to what's happening. And of course, sometimes that means popping an uber rather than letting it go to waste. A dead Medic is of no use.
The Medic is basically an amplifier. Whatever the ability of the team, the Medic makes the team a degree better. More health, a higher health ceiling, healing on the fly, and of course the ubers. Give those benefits to a bad team and they will be a little better but may not take advantage. To a good team, it can be the difference between winning and losing. And the right player, with a medic pocketing him at times, can become a force of nature.
It's a thankless job too. If a Medic is doing his job correctly no one notices. The needle guns aren't made for attacking and racking up kills. They're at their best when backpeddling and leaving a wall of death for an enemy to run into. When a Medic kills a spy that is about to go on a backstabbing spree, the team isn't even watching. When he fires a bolt halfway across a map and gives some otherwise out-of-range player a health boost the team is silent.
But when the Medic chooses not to heal someone or simply doesn't see an injured player, it's so easy to trash the Medic. The Medic needs to (try to) keep tabs on his healing target, other teammates in the area, the location of the best player(s) on the team, the opposing players that are in range, any potential snipers, his six in case a spy materializes, and a way to escape if necessary. It's a lot to process and at the same time constant decisions have to be made regarding position and healing priority.
I'm not saying that Engis aren't useful but consider giving some serious love to your Medic. His fate is tied to yours and I guarantee he loves you and wants you to succeed. And if he knows what he is doing and you use him correctly, the best Engi in the world isn't going to save the other team.
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I would have to say medics are more vital to the team. Victory or defeat can be centered around how well a medic heals his team and deploys his ubers for pushes. A good engineer can delay a hostile push which enables the medics to have sufficient time to build up charge and go on the counter attack which can sometimes wind up shoving the enemy back to their spawn door. And as the guy above me said, being a medic is a thankless job and we get trashed alot.
Wow you must of had some bad medics! I loved my Demos and Soldiers too! Actually I think its better to tail a Demoman than a Heavy especially with an uber (multiple sentry destruction!) I would keep everyone topped off around me except spies I dont like to be healed as a spy myself so unless they ask for it.
Ultimately it would come down to how good a player is for each class, a band of good engis can cause chaos! But so can some good medics.
If both classes were played by same skill level I would go with Medic :thumbup1:
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Sniper. On 2fort
This thread has inspired me to learn how to be a good Medic. But I think that we could all use a little refresher that both the Medic and the Engineer should be used primarily for their roles as a support rather than offensive.
In a Medic's case, I believe you are more useful when you don't just heal a Heavy because he's a Heavy, but focus on healing your front lines and allow them to push, and then using your Uber's to keep people alive in life/death situations, as mwjhnsn said.
In an Engineer's case it's different. While they are most certainly useful for their defensive capabilities, and sometimes their offensive if you can use Mini-Sentries, Engineers should remember that they have dispensers which help keep the front lines stable and alive, and teleporters which keep a healthy flow of people to the front. Teleporters and Dispensers in most cases are 50x more helpful than Sentries will ever be.
In a Medic's case, I believe you are more useful when you don't just heal a Heavy because he's a Heavy, but focus on healing your front lines and allow them to push, and then using your Uber's to keep people alive in life/death situations, as mwjhnsn said.
In an Engineer's case it's different. While they are most certainly useful for their defensive capabilities, and sometimes their offensive if you can use Mini-Sentries, Engineers should remember that they have dispensers which help keep the front lines stable and alive, and teleporters which keep a healthy flow of people to the front. Teleporters and Dispensers in most cases are 50x more helpful than Sentries will ever be.
