Possible SG Exploits? Q&A.

S

Sharpshoote

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Ok, lets discuss this and share some opinions on this topic. Are these Exploits? Should we allow these? and if not should we enforce action toward non clan members using these in our servers? I have done some detailed research on these SG spots and have noticed that it looks very obvious that they look to be that the creators have intentionally made it possible to build in these areas. In an empty Dustbowl map, try to build these and you will see what I am talking about. The one location they for no reason at all have a scrap of sheet metal laying on top of a pipe for you to jump on to build the SG in the "open" window and the other location, it is the "only" fence that I have seen that allows you to build from the outside. Now, both SG locations , the SG can be destroyed by the enemy BUT this is where it gets sketchy, a spy can not sap the SG. My opinion on the subject, both of these areas are lousy locations for an SG to begin with and can easily be destroyed after the initial shock value has worn away and they are impossible to rebuild after the initial set up because it is way too long of a process to repeat once the game is in full swing. Basically they are a waste of time to build to stop the enemy.
f_cpdustbowl0m_00620f3.jpg


f_cpdustbowl0m_02e7c6f.jpg
 
ok this has been gone over, but here goes again...

Top pic - Sentry in window:

We, the advisors and Council here at Edge Gamers, have determined it to be en exploit. Why? 1. Because its not the easiest spot to place one, sometimes taking multiple attempts to even get the stage one started. SGs shouldnt take multiple attempts to find that exact spot that you can place it. 2. This is the big one for me and some of the others...The missles on the stage 3 SG dont go thru the window, except maybe at 1 specific angle. We built this on a private, locked server and I never once witnessed the missles from the SG coming thru the window. To me that means this spot is off limits as if they meant for the SG to be built here the missles should be able to go thru the window.

Bottom Pic: We decided that this is another exploit on our servers at the very least. Why? Same as above, the missles from the SG WILL NOT fire thru the fence. Why would the map be built with this location for SGs and not allow the missles from a stage 3 SG go thru it. Also while its not impossible to kill the sg, it seemed more difficult than any other location we could find and the engineer protecting it almost all the time didnt die from the outside but from thier own SGs missle hitting the fence and exploding.


Someone else may want to add more info to this, but those are the reasons I remember that we decided to call them exploits on our servers.
 
[quote1198165286=IrshCarBomb]
Where is the sentry on the top one? Inside the dispenser?


[/quote1198165286]


See the dark spots in the window above the dispenser...that would be the little tiny bit that you can see of the SG.
 
Another thing too:

Can a Spy get to it?... I know it can be blown up, but the whole game is based on balance. For me, if it is impossible for a Spy to get to, then it is an exploit.

If the Devs intentionally made it do you could build there.. I would think they would have made it so I can be Saped like everywhere else you can put a gun.
 
So if it can't be sapped, it becomes an exploit? So does building on the roof of Point B on Gravelpit become an exploit? And also, for that matter, any medic/engineer combo sg placements are exploits?

Gravelpit Point B Video: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXDcQpVct8U[/ame]
Medic/Engy combo Video: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvhXvr8MlhQ[/ame]

Whilst the second video doesn't actually show any sg placement, you could use it to get on top of the bridge in 2fort, build sg's on top of buildings facing spawn in dustbowl point 3. Just wondering what you thought of these, and medic needling in general.
 
I searched the Forum for a topic and I could not find one, this is the reason I asked, if it was discussed during a game, I must have not been there and alot of members have asked me this question and I have over heard members talking about it but to make sure that I give proper info and good admin calls I thought it would be a good call to open a General Forum discussion about it and get it out in the open so we all know exactly how the Council feels about it. So basically it is a No No, thank you for the quick reply, I will enforce the rule in the future in servers. If anyone else knows of such SG locations, please take screen shots and add to this so that we can clear up any more eploits and learn from them as well.
 
[quote1198169645=Dyce]
So if it can't be sapped, it becomes an exploit? So does building on the roof of Point B on Gravelpit become an exploit? And also, for that matter, any medic/engineer combo sg placements are exploits?

Gravelpit Point B Video: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXDcQpVct8U[/ame]
Medic/Engy combo Video: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvhXvr8MlhQ[/ame]

Whilst the second video doesn't actually show any sg placement, you could use it to get on top of the bridge in 2fort, build sg's on top of buildings facing spawn in dustbowl point 3. Just wondering what you thought of these, and medic needling in general.
[/quote1198169645]

Well, the difference between those and the ones NYPD put up are that the missiles from a tier 3 SG can actually be shot at the opposing team, and can actually be taken down quick. Of course, I don't know the actually ruling on this, so I'm not going to give my complete thought, although I've never set it up like that.
 
Another thing about the behind the fence bit. It's REALLY frustrating for players on the same team who were not informed that the teleporter outside their spawn leads to a place where they will be trapped. Or who simply missed the information. Teleporters, in my opinion, should NEVER be placed in such a way that team members using the teleporter must kill themselves to get on with the game.
 
While I think calling them "expoloits" is kinda harsh (it's not like the shooting through the fence/grate prior to a round beginning), they are indeed placed in "dubious" positions. Additionally, many of these places require multiple players and/or teleporter/dispenser construct/destruct sequences to build them. While I consider these a novelty, they are pretty much in non-useful areas (ineffective, long duration builds, easily destroyed, etc.). I didn't consider the spy sapping thing.

In the end the clan advisors/council have said it's a no-no. Thats good enough for me
 
[quote1198175644=Dyce]
Just wondering what you thought of these, and medic needling in general.
[/quote1198175644]

Agreed. It would be good to know the council's position on medi-jumping. From my personal observations, I don't think the ability was intended by Valve. It seems to be a glitch with the physics system, and use of a glitch might fall into the category of exploit (like the SG beneath the ground in Gravelpit).
 
I can't imagine it's intended. If all the weapons retained their knockback on friendly targets maybe, but if it can ONLY be done with that weapon?
 
The gravel pit SG exploit is probably one most annoying....

The others, you can deal with. But i've had a hard time with the Gravel pit one.

Other that that, i agree, its a novelty item, and not very useful to the offense with the turrets there.
 
Sharp sent you a link to the previous discussion about these 2 spots on gravelpit.

Any eG+ can find it in the eG ssection in the topic "Dustbowl Glitches"
 
The gravel pit SG placement is definitely an exploit. It's built in an area "under" the map ..kinda like the old "no clip" mode in other games. It cant be destroyed and kills everyone coming out of respawn ala the "monster turret" in old TFC.

Completely wrecks the game. I hope valve fixes it with a patch.
 
my opionion they are definetaly exploits. The fence one like lafin said is frustrating if u dont know where it leads to. Very hard to kill and they are frustrating
 
Question, on gravelpit, would it be an "exploit" to dispenser boost and build a sentry right in the blue team's hallways? Also, is it an exploit to dispenser boost and get a sentry on top of B?
 
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