Thoughtful Discussion: CSS Jail Server

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This time last year jails rank was in the 600s. was at 200 second week into january.
To say rank 2700 is normal and happens every year is wrong.
 
A lot of people are used to seeing the summer time numbers and panic during Holiday time. Relax, it'll be OK. Uncle Ric is here to comfort you.

I agree with the panic with the numbers dropping but they never went past 700-800.
But the waiting time for downloading new textures and plugins gets way too long. Some people don't have good internet so when a new update comes out it takes them 10+ minutes to download the new stuff.

The credit system is ok it can be good and it can be bad. Its good that you get a reward for doing something and that you can revive instead of waiting around for 10 minutes, but it is also bad because it encourages people to join T and forget about CT even though CT's get more credits when they win, it would still be easier to get kills and rebel.
 
Why is our jail server currently dying?
Because it's the Holidays and Jail always goes empty around this year. Picks up in January/February. It's been like this since 2010. We've made some of the changes you requested, so surely that can't be it.

Well, these changes were requested, you followed through, but it looks like they aren't working. Just because it was once a "good idea" doesn't make it really a good idea. And this is coming from the guy who requested the credit system, and will admit it was a failure

A lot of people are used to seeing the summer time numbers and panic during Holiday time. Relax, it'll be OK. Uncle Ric is here to comfort you.


Ric I have to disagree with you on this one bro.

A flatline 0 is not even in the same zipcode as summer numbers. You have to do better then this to convince me that this kind of performance with the server is "normal" for this time of year
 
I never said it was normal, I said it's normal for it to decline around this time. Which is true. Every single year since I've played Jail back in the "old days" of 2010, each time around Christmas Jail would decline. Each year, adding more and more to the decline.

As each year passes, the needs for servers change, and we, as a team(the whole CS division) do whatever we can to improve the servers we love.

As Jail is declining, there is a huge successful push for highschool, which doesn't help us any more.

We must stick to one server at a time if we're to help our overall totals, which is what I'm guessing you guys are basing it on. An exception to this would be the server filling team, which is currently a work in awesome progress.

Of course, I'm no Jail fortune telling guru, this is just my analysis on the subject.

Nice thread! I'm sure Jail will be returning to normal soon, just have some patience. =)
 
First off id like to state im not going to suger coat anything.
Why is our jail server currently dying?
1) its boring
2) being free killed by a new ct and having to wait 5+mins is frustrating.
3) Some CT wardens suck.
4) People that made jail fun no longer play.
These are just the facts. No disrespect.

Why are you not playing jail?
1) its boring.
2) being free killed and having to wait 5+mins is frustrating
3) some CT wardens are just awful. (Myself included)
4) The people that made jail fun no longer play.
5) iv been playing on WCS server.

What can be done to bring jail back?
Ok... I think jail is dead and there is no reviving the poor sucker :crying:.
If we do attempt to try and revive jail PLEASE have people that want to actually play jail be there not just someone who's their cause they r "forced".

I think jail is dead for most veteran ego players based on what I have read. Maybe its time to start thinking of replacing jail with a different type of server. I know it might be hard at first to realize all the hard work put into jail has gone down the drain.

If I offended anyone I am sorry :(

-Snuggle-Boo Out <3 :)
 
I hate the credit system and the "newer maps". The rule book changes ruined it for me too.
 
Jail was ranked 1500+ before credits were implemented initially.

All this talk about credits, however, credits have been off the server for some time now. Credits are only used to buy certain skins, no more awards.

What I'm more interested in here is: how many of you will take the complaining and turn it into action. You say we haven't been listening, but that's almost the complete opposite. We do our very best to hear all your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. We had a divisional meeting for this recently. If you weren't present, then that's really your fault, not ours.

Also remember, for as many of you are complaining about this or that, the same number of people are or have complained about the opposite view.

TL;DR?

Credits aren't used for awards anymore. So, why not get in server?
 
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Relax, it'll be OK. Uncle Ric is here to comfort you.

will you be tucking us in at night?

tumblr_m0c1hfaAkT1r7c4ato1_500.gif
 
Jail was ranked 1500+ before credits were implemented initially.

All this talk about credits, however, credits have been off the server for some time now. Credits are only used to buy certain skins, no more awards.

What I'm more interested in here is: how many of you will take the complaining and turn it into action. You say we haven't been listening, but that's almost the complete opposite. We do our very best to hear all your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. We had a divisional meeting for this recently. If you weren't present, then that's really your fault, not ours.

Also remember, for as many of you are complaining about this or that, the same number of people are or have complained about the opposite view.

TL;DR?

Credits aren't used for awards anymore. So, why not get in server?


As they say "All show and no go"
 
I feel like it has to do more with the people playing it than anything else. You can turn the rules upside down, remove or add as many plug ins as you want, or anything else but if the people playing it aren't fun then the game itself will never be fun.

Over time jail has become this weird formulaic activity where it is no longer really that fun to be a warden. It's like people think there's a certain way you should be a warden, learned from others who did the same stuff every round trying to win each round, but that's really the point of jail. The point of jail is to have fun, winning comes as a secondary objective, and most likely if the warden is fun intriguing then the CT's will typically go on to win the match. Yeah sure there's the random warden that comes on and spices things up but it's mostly the same.

Following that, the last couple times I've been in jail it's been half full but the same 2 or 3 CT's were warden all the time, doing the same 4-5 activities every round, and all of them just sounded incredibly uninterested in their job. When someone starts off the round and goes "oh I guess I'm warden, uh...." then I know that round is probably going to be awful.

Also this may sound weird coming from me but I think that the awards actually did add a level of fun to the server, but only when they were used appropriately. When somebody was in the server giving everybody Master Chief or Predator or turning everybody into chickens every 5 rounds or less it wasn't jail anymore, it was some weird mini-game deathmatch crap. I want to play JAIL, yeah maybe with a couple weird occurrences like some fool warden being turned into a chicken or last CT becoming Master Chief and wrecking house, but that stuff needed to be incredibly seldom and unique to really make the server fun.

I'm kind of going off topic now, but I'm just saying that you can do whatever you want with the server, but without a good COMMUNITY and excellent PEOPLE in there, jail is never going to be the blast it once was.
 
only one issue got fixed

Clearly, you need to pay more attention. While I agree that there are certainly aspects that need to be addressed and improved on, your attitude of "nothing's done" is absolutely incorrect. There's been substantial improvements throughout the Counter-Strike division, in almost every aspect, within the past year. I don't understand the negativeness and the attitude but I will say this. If that's all you have to offer, then take your negative nancy attitude and make like a banana and split.

1. Potentially because CTs/Wardens seem to play to lose. Most wardens seem to be overly strict to the point where the game isn't fun for the Ts while other wardens seem to be overly lax on orders(freedays as often as you can, orders that are really doomed to fail because you gave your team no time to react), to the point where it's not fun for the CTs. Combined with stale, repeated rounds, there isn't much fun to be had.

How am I supposed to fix this? I can't write a rule saying "Rule #1: You MUST be a good warden to play jail". The solution to this comes with you. The former and current jail players that are willing to teach the new comers. The active and creative jail players that are thinking and looking to improve the server and introducing new games, rounds, and such. This is not something leadership can fix. This is on you.

I also find it ironic that you're complaining about "too strict" wardens. One of the rules we removed was "No detour/delaying, No cheating are implied." The reason we removed this was for that very reason. It was too strict. It took the basic freedoms of T's to do anything. T's were getting killed upon getting out of cells because of this. T's were getting killed for finding ways to win games/rounds (ie. cheating on High Spray by jumping on an object).

"No detours/Delays" does not imply that T's have a freeday if the said statement is not stated. It simply means that they have a bit more freedom, but if the T's are not trying to accomplish the main objective, they are still rebelling. It is on the CT's to determine this and the CT's to have control of the server. That is the role of the CT's. It's a role playing server, act like guards.

If all you want are easy kills, we can start discussions about converting the event server with 5 immobile bots that stand still, don't move, don't shoot that you can shoot over and over again for all your heart's desires run out.

2. Sometimes it is because nobody else is ever on. When I am on, strict, repetitive, and uncaring (not necessarily all 3 at once) wardens siphon the fun that I have. Inb4 oh rdk you should be warden. I don't wish to be warden. Jail to me has always been a role playing game first and foremost; putting my feet into the boots of a pretend guard against the roughest prisoners ever to get caught. I don't see myself as much of a leader(I'll do it when necessary, but not because I want to), and that reflects on how I act in jail when I refuse to take warden.

/see above. Not something we can fix.

3. When credits were introduced, I believe it caused a shift in jail's audience. Some were there just for credits so they could blow rounds away with overpowered awards. This wasn't jail to me, so I stopped playing as much as I had prior to credits being introduced. With credits removed, the audience hasn't really shifted back. I'm not sure how we can get it to shift back, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: No detours and No delays needs to go back to being implied. I doubt it would fix the problem altogether, but it would be a start. I still don't know why rogues newer maps were removed, but I enjoyed the different feel of jail that they gave back when bomb planting was enabled. Ive wanted to see that back since it was removed, but I still don't expect it to ever happen. and limit freedays when cts are losing. would fix one of the issues I have in number 2.

1) Agreed with the shift aspect. What suggestions do you have for us to regain the "old" playerbase?

2) /see above about no detours and delays. Or please explain to me exactly how and why this is so important to you. Stating "its repetitive" doesn't work for me. So if you have a real argument, please share. It'll be considered.

3) Bomb Planting. The reason it was removed was because more people were complaining about it than not. The fact that 1 person could end the entire round within 30 sec was dumb. It was almost as dumb as a mass freekiller coming in. People complained, we listened. Again, it's a jail server. What purpose does bomb planting serve? If you could give us a rational and pertinent argument/discussion, it'll be considered.

4) Limiting freedays. Currently, free days are limited. If the CT's are losing and you don't want to have another freeday, when eligible, take warden and stop giving them out. This is not something we can control.

----------------------

From your requests above, I completely understand that you might be have a "controlling" personality where you like to control every aspect, but that's not the case and it will never happen in a server like jail. You have a gun, most likely an awp. Use it.

Present rational and well thought out cohesive arguments to the points above, and we'll consider it and open the ideas for discussion. However, stating "i'm too lazy to say it", or "its too repetitive" are not rational and well thought out arguments.

Thanks!


__________________________
Also this may sound weird coming from me but I think that the awards actually did add a level of fun to the server, but only when they were used appropriately. When somebody was in the server giving everybody Master Chief or Predator or turning everybody into chickens every 5 rounds or less it wasn't jail anymore, it was some weird mini-game deathmatch crap. I want to play JAIL, yeah maybe with a couple weird occurrences like some fool warden being turned into a chicken or last CT becoming Master Chief and wrecking house, but that stuff needed to be incredibly seldom and unique to really make the server fun.

That is something that most agrees to and we have been working to resolve that issue.

Thanks!
 
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When somebody was in the server giving everybody Master Chief or Predator or turning everybody into chickens every 5 rounds or less it wasn't jail anymore, it was some weird mini-game deathmatch crap.

Lol that's why I stopped
 
1) Why is our jail server currently dying?
Well I honestly feel are focus to fill high school all the time has done part in killing the jail server. I can also say that many players stopped coming around because sometimes the rounds would take forever because one is camping somewhere and not following orders. Which is fine but when you do that at least try to kill the CT's not just go and camp and do nothing. Many players/pubs got upset about the credit system being taken away. Yes does it make it where the T's win more? Of course, but it also made it where the game didn't get boring. Another thing I will add just like MANY have already said CT's playing and not using a mic. That is an issue when no one uses a mic but one person but wont get off CT side.

2) Why are you not playing jail?
Im not playing on it because no one is EVER on it anymore. Sometimes we can get like 5/6 people in there at most these days but then all goes back to my facts stated above and people just leave or !hop to another server.

What can be done to bring jail back?
I think rules to have CTs have to have a mic and actively talking on it. Also think bringing back credits to add perks to the T side. I know personally many people were upset that the credit system and ability to purchase perks was gone. But all in all would love to get the jail server back up and going and active again.
 
Clearly, you need to pay more attention. While I agree that there are certainly aspects that need to be addressed and improved on, your attitude of "nothing's done" is absolutely incorrect.
Well this is a giant hyperbole. I've never been of the opinion that nothing ever gets done. Stuff does get done, but it is throttled as all of the changes in the past few months have been based on plugins. We really don't need more plugins contributing to the amount of time one has to spend downloading before they can actually play.

How am I supposed to fix this? I can't write a rule saying "Rule #1: You MUST be a good warden to play jail". The solution to this comes with you. The former and current jail players that are willing to teach the new comers. The active and creative jail players that are thinking and looking to improve the server and introducing new games, rounds, and such. This is not something leadership can fix. This is on you.
It really isn't something that's fixable. Nobody can just flip a switch and automatically make all the wardens good. I've been trying to help the guards for years, but trying to get someone to change seems to be a lesson in futility 90% of the time.

I also find it ironic that you're complaining about "too strict" wardens. One of the rules we removed was "No detour/delaying, No cheating are implied." The reason we removed this was for that very reason. It was too strict. It took the basic freedoms of T's to do anything. T's were getting killed upon getting out of cells because of this. T's were getting killed for finding ways to win games/rounds (ie. cheating on High Spray by jumping on an object).

"No detours/Delays" does not imply that T's have a freeday if the said statement is not stated. It simply means that they have a bit more freedom, but if the T's are not trying to accomplish the main objective, they are still rebelling. It is on the CT's to determine this and the CT's to have control of the server. That is the role of the CT's. It's a role playing server, act like guards.
We've already been down this road multiple times, yet you still seem to think that I have an issue comprehending what detouring actually means. I didn't even bring up no cheating because I'm can somewhat agree with you on what it actually provides. Back to no detouring though.
Ts weren't getting killed out of cells for detouring or delaying. They were, and still are, getting killed out of cells for facing the wrong way or not being frozen. Removing the ability for Ts to detour or delay is not being strict in and of itself. I can guarantee that the majority of wardens dislike repeating it after every order and the warden's really don't intentionally leave it out of their orders to give the ts freedom. Usually, they either legitimately forgot, or they really don't care what the Ts do. The only plus that comes from it not being implied, is that Ts get to walk slower or slightly off track when a warden forgets to include it in his orders. Having it implied again would still allow the warden to let the Ts detour/delay, but would cut a lot of words from the orders the warden has to give. Overall, this would result in less time spent giving orders, more time spent playing the game, somewhat faster rounds, less confusion over what the orders actually were. It will also give the warden more time to think about things to do rather than the phrasing of his orders, and it will remove unnecessary punishment for forgetting to include the same phrase every time he says something.


4) Limiting freedays. Currently, free days are limited. If the CT's are losing and you don't want to have another freeday, when eligible, take warden and stop giving them out. This is not something we can control.
Inb4 oh rdk you should be warden. I don't wish to be warden. Jail to me has always been a role playing game first and foremost; putting my feet into the boots of a pretend guard against the roughest prisoners ever to get caught. I don't see myself as much of a leader(I'll do it when necessary, but not because I want to), and that reflects on how I act in jail when I refuse to take warden.


You have a gun, most likely an awp. Use it.
I'm more of a rifle man. The awp is a tool for singling out the 1 rebelling T from afar. The rifle is a versatile weapon for those in the thick of it, stopping full scale rebellions with empty bullet casings piled around their feet.
 
Rules for thoughtful discussion

- Everyone get along to your best ability

- Discuss peoples ideas, do not burn on them

What I'm more interested in here is: how many of you will take the complaining and turn it into action.
Also remember, for as many of you are complaining about this or that, the same number of people are or have complained about the opposite view.
If that's all you have to offer, then take your negative nancy attitude and make like a banana and split.

C-WHiT, I don't know you. I know you're leadership and all. Your attitude sucks. How do you expect to get good feedback when all you do is whine and complain when people give you honest opinions? These are people's opinions, which they were asked for, not complaints. It seems to me that some of these people took a good amount of time forming well thought out posts and you dismiss them out of hand as complaining. The rules of the thread clearly state that you're to get along and not burn on people. If you can't handle that why not just stay out of the thread? I'd say sorry for being so blunt, but it looks like that's your preferred means of communication.

If you weren't present, then that's really your fault, not ours.

Maybe some people weren't present because of the attitude they receive when they give their opinions. In that case it's really your fault. Most people are here to have fun, not be bullied. If your attitude is that somebody doesn't have the right to an opinion because they didn't drop everything in their lives to discuss a particular game mode with you then I'd expect to see more threads about why other servers are dieing shortly.

As for why I don't play Jail? I tried it a couple times and didn't understand what was happening. Nobody was interested in the slightest in explaining it to me. The one time I was actually doing OK somebody killed the warden. All of a sudden there was a new warden who was screaming something into the mic with a thick accent. I obeyed the last order that I understood, which was to freeze. I was waiting for the new warden to stop talking so that I could ask what I was supposed to do and he shot me in the face and I died. I waited about 5 minutes for the round to end before I got bored and gave up on it.

What can be done about the Jail server dieing? Make it more noob friendly. Maybe have some sort of system set up where people can learn the game from somebody that's been there before. I don't know the details of how this would work and I'm not interested enough in this mode to try to come up with something, but if I heard that something was developed I'd probably stop by and see if I could figure it out with some help. It seems to me like the "old-timers" that have been playing jail for a while are mostly saying they don't like the new plugin configuration or they don't like the people currently playing vs. the people that used to play. The first problem is beyond my ability to fix as I don't know the mode well enough. The second is most easily and quickly fixed by injecting some new blood into the server. This might be easier if the game was easier to understand for people that have never played it before.

Thanks for taking the time to read.
 
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C-WHiT, I don't know you. I know you're leadership and all. Your attitude sucks.

HAHAHAHA. Love getting trolled by people not even familiar with the discussion. Just not even worthy of a response really.

So MOVING ON.

____________________________
We've already been down this road multiple times, yet you still seem to think that I have an issue comprehending what detouring actually means. I didn't even bring up no cheating because I'm can somewhat agree with you on what it actually provides. Back to no detouring though.
Ts weren't getting killed out of cells for detouring or delaying. They were, and still are, getting killed out of cells for facing the wrong way or not being frozen. Removing the ability for Ts to detour or delay is not being strict in and of itself. I can guarantee that the majority of wardens dislike repeating it after every order and the warden's really don't intentionally leave it out of their orders to give the ts freedom. Usually, they either legitimately forgot, or they really don't care what the Ts do. The only plus that comes from it not being implied, is that Ts get to walk slower or slightly off track when a warden forgets to include it in his orders. Having it implied again would still allow the warden to let the Ts detour/delay, but would cut a lot of words from the orders the warden has to give. Overall, this would result in less time spent giving orders, more time spent playing the game, somewhat faster rounds, less confusion over what the orders actually were. It will also give the warden more time to think about things to do rather than the phrasing of his orders, and it will remove unnecessary punishment for forgetting to include the same phrase every time he says something.

So why don't we try to meet 1/2 way here. Let me talk to the leadership team about implementing the "No Detours/No Delays" to being implied, and keeping the "No Cheating" aspect.

Let me get back to you on that one. What other aspects would you want us to discuss?
 
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