New Tf2 Update! Love and war!

[Orange [INACTIVE]]

My initial reaction was to say that the Medic has always been subject to these problems - strafing Scouts, rocket jumping Soldiers, and having substandard Demo pockets are nothing new to the litany of woes that a Medic faces - but then I started thinking about the impact of the ramp-up time for sticky bombs and miniguns. Does anyone know if there is a ramp-up time for these weapons even when charged with a Kritzkrieg? If so, that's what hurts the Medic the most: not other classes being more of a threat, but the fewer viable options that the Medic has to be fully effective.

Over on the SPUF forums they're saying it basically turned Demo + Kritz into just a marginally more effective version of Demo's SL before this nerf. I haven't tested it out yet but given what the new baseline damage numbers looked like when I was playing last night, that sounds about right in terms of output. If the goal was to relegate Medic to even more of a Heavy-buddy then this accomplished that goal. The damage/accuracy penalty on the Minigun seems less meaningful when coupled with the Kritz. I don't think this nerf is as bad as the comically bad Short Circuit buff over the winter, but I think we'll see Valve adjust this somehow even if it's not a complete reversion to the pre-nerf power.

Edit: Also, my point regarding threats to Medic is that Demo was already weak at protecting Medic. Demo is now even less able to adequately deal with close-range threats in a quick manner (especially Scouts). There was already a degree of consideration that had to be given to pocketing a Demo in that you were hoping for some big gains in exchange for being relatively exposed. Now those potential gains are less and you're even more exposed. It won't matter as much on a map like Dustbowl that is a giant choke point, but on more open maps Demo's healing/pocketing priority just dropped significantly. Flip it around and Demo gets even weaker because Medics will pay less attention to him.

If Demo was on par with Soldier in terms of overall usefulness (ALL things being considered), he certain isn't anymore, and is definitely not as able to hold his own vs. solder when one on one.

 

[SnowCanary]

This is a sad day for America and for trolls everywhere. After reading the blog posts about the new update, I actually considered firing up TF2 again. Then I read about the stickybomb nerf...

Whoever gave that change the green light deserves a Razor1-style ass kicking...

 

[Minty]

I'll admit, it pissed me off. It seems they really want to eliminate the prospect of using Demomen offensively. Along with the axtinguisher and minigun nerfs, I'm convinced they're trying to level the field between support and power classes.

Now Lelouch is gonna rock me.

 

[Michael Bluth]

rip 6s and HL demos.

 

[Nix]

The more I think about it, the I realize more this update fundamentally changes the best loadouts of the power classes.

Maybe they're trying to make it easier for support classes to take down assault classes, but that's not the point at all. Their job is to support. You also don't nerf 3 power classes without nerfing all of them, not giving them more weapons that improve their chance of taking down supports.

One huge thing that was directly affected is the survivability of a sentry nest without an available uber on the other team. Demo is pretty much the only class that can reliably take down a sentry nest without being in its line of sight, and this update dramatically reduces the speed at which you can dish out enough burst damage to take down the nest. Sure, you can use pipes but you can't burst it down in one shot before the engie has a chance to react.

This update is pretty bad. But on the bright side there's bound to be something good in those 45 hats and the classic looks interesting. Also, those bread skins are pretty awesome.

 

[Orange [INACTIVE]]

The Classic is a straight downgrade from the Stock Sniper Rifle. At least it seemed that way when I was toying with it last night.

 

[Nix]

The Classic is a straight downgrade from the Stock Sniper Rifle. At least it seemed that way when I was toying with it last night.

Does it charge automatically? It seems nice to have a charge waiting for when you scope in, and if you can headshot the damage reduction is null. If it works how I think it is you would be able to survive easier if you came across a lone enemy with more than 150 health.

In other news, these hats are some of the best from an actual update in a long time.

 

[Angoron]

Gloom and doom bros, with that demo nerf. It's time for us all to become familiar with King Arthur.

I was thinking about switching divisions to CS just for a change. This gives me food for thought...
/think

 

[Nix]

Gloom and doom bros, with that demo nerf. It's time for us all to become familiar with King Arthur.

I was thinking about switching divisions to CS just for a change. This gives me food for thought...
/think

King Arthur?

 

[Angoron]

King Aurthur?

Knights, was the joke dear sir

Ya know, knights of the round table?

...It wasn't a good joke, I know.

 

[Nix]

Knights, was the joke dear sir

Ya know, knights of the round table?

...It wasn't a good joke, I know.

Wow, I just got that.

That joke was so brilliantly obscure I don't even know what to say.

 

[Rawburt]

The Classic is a straight downgrade from the Stock Sniper Rifle. At least it seemed that way when I was toying with it last night.

The weapon model itself is pretty ugly and wonky in design, first of all.

You can't get a headshot unless you're willing to wait 5 seconds, scoped-in or not.

The whole -10% damage was a stupid idea for a weapon that can only headshot after charging for 5 seconds.

TL;DR: the weapon is absolute crap and I'm rather disappointed.

 

[Sanctified Aberration]

Is it too late to hop on the Valve hate train? No? Good (and yes, I know, who'd a thunk, crotchety old Sanctified would raise a stink about this... but read on and then you can tell me if I am full of beans...)!

Nerf to the axestinguisher? Wonky and unnecessary. When you are airblasting a foe and they are twisting around in the air, those forward/backward hitboxes are going to be all over the place. Powerjack was already the best melee weapon thanks to its stupidly amazing utility, and the only other weapon that gave it a run for its money was the pre-nerf axestinguisher. So congrats Valve for forcing all serious pyros to use the powerjack. How interesting. /s

Nerf to the minigun? Totally unnecessary, heavies are already easily countered by smart explosive classes, snipers and spies. They are slow and spin up time already makes it hard to bring that close range damage to bear. Tacking on even more time before the weapon is effective? Silly.

The nerf to the sticky launcher is mystifying. It almost makes demos un-pocketable, and also really bad at their main job, which is sentry-killing and being the heart of strong offensive pushes. The sticky lancher is now almost indistinguishable from the Scottish Resistance and is relegated to a camping weapon. Now demos are hardly better than soldiers when under the effect of a vanilla uber. When you only get 8 seconds to take out one or more sentry nests, those slow-arming stickies are not going to count for much.

I fundamentally hate pretty much all of the weapon tweaks. I think Valve has lost sight of how good weapons are supposed to function with regard to class interaction. Right now, all they have done is make soldier look AMAZING, because he can actually kill things and react without taking 3+ seconds to deal damage to the enemy.

 

[Nix]

Oh, right, the classic can't headshot unless it's funny charged.

Welp, that makes every weapon except the tide turner terrible compared to stock weapons. But then again, our stock weapons may not be safe any longer.

 

[Angoron]

Man, I didn't sign up for this. I liked TF2 cause you guys and the fact that, no matter what, any new weapons would be sidegrades.

 

[Tokiw]

In response to sanctified (Not trying to be rude, just seeing if you don't agree with what I say about these things):

The nerf to the axetinguisher, in my opinion, is something that I've waited for for a very long time. Pyro is a close range class, so why give him a weapon that crits 100% of the time at close range? If someone next to a pyro ISNT on fire, the pyro is doing something wrong. Also, I disagree with the powerjack being better than all other pyro melee weapons. It's a different playstyle, coming with its advantages and drawbacks. I personally can't function with the extra damage penalties.

Nerf to the minigun- While I can see the problems in this one, I'm also not against it. At least for the stock minigun. All the others I think should stay the same. We've all ran into unkillable heavies before (Sanctified...), who are smart enough to avoid explosive classes and snipers. Snipers aren't even as big of a problem if the medic is using the vaccinator, which yours often is. A full-charge head shot won't kill you if you have bullet resistance.

While unexpected, the nerf to the sticky launcher is well-welcome in my book. At least against players. I don't think it should affect damage to buildings, like you said. Sticky-spammers were some of the most annoying players to play with. If you are a pyro, you can't air blast it simply because it detonates as soon as it's close enough. Another problem is that the demoman could shoot it directly down while walking backwards and detonate it without taking damage, but the person running in for close-combat would take significant damage/knockback. Also, longer range classes couldn't combat as easily, because the sticky launcher can actually choose how far it goes, so nobody is out of the demoman's reach.

So all and all, I'm pretty happy with the update (Except for the non-stock miniguns and the bushwacka).

But again, I'm not trying to say my ways are right, or more correct than yours. I just want to get your opinions on mine for some nice, not hate-riddled debate.

 

[CrashRIT]

In response to both of you... The closer we are to vanilla, where kills were earned... The happier I am... So to bad so sad. Deal

 

[Nix]

A few things here.

I personally can't function with the extra damage penalties.

The extra damage in only active when the powerjack is active, thus making the powerjack/degreaser combo incredibly useful.

I'm okay with the Axtinguisher and Bushwacka nerfs, because honestly anyone who used them (Like me) used them as an easier way to get more kills and laughs. They were actually too easy to use if you think about it.

The thing I don't like about the stock nerfs is that they completely warp the actual essence of how the respective class is played. Yeah, they'll nerf OP players who know what they're doing but that only works if they're playing against people under their skill level, for example, on eGO servers. Against people who know what they're doing too, they're suddenly at a severe disadvantage.

 

[Tokiw]

Really? The powerjack only gives damage increase if you are wielding it? It says 20% damage on wearer. What makes me think it's irrelevant if it's in your pocket or hands is because of something like the fists of steel which say when active the player takes more damage from melee but less from guns.

 

[Rawburt]

The nerf to the axtinguisher, in my opinion, is something that I've waited for for a very long time. Pyro is a close range class, so why give him a weapon that crits 100% of the time at close range?

Guaranteed crit for a weapon that didn't have random crits.

All other melee weapons for Pyro are almost unbearable for use against enemies. Using a Fire Axe is just plain ridiculous when you can just flamethrower the enemy.
With the Axtinguisher being one of the only useful melee weapons, you still needed to light the enemy up, airblast them to a stop, switch weapons quickly, and get them with the Axe. Now, how am I supposed to burn a player and not expect them to whip around before I can back-axe them?

So all and all, I'm pretty happy with the update (Except for the non-stock miniguns and the bushwacka).

Random crit for a weapon that had guaranteed crits.

I'm glad they nerfed the Bushwacka.
People can get crits with Jarate with it, why should they get random crits?