Yet another neutering TF2 update
- Thread starter Spanktacular
- Start date
I think Soldiers got really messed over this way... but maybe it will require more tactics... i think thigh might be an even BIGGER demand for dispensers now though. I think i see a potential future in something like trench warfare.... people setting up defensive areas with dispensers and such.... eventually trying to take out the other sides defense... because you cant really fight an entire map with 16 rockets... =/
Same goes for demos... almost.
Same goes for demos... almost.
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- Feb 3, 2008
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- 889
I play as a demo alot and never have the problem of running out of ammo, It's not hard to pay attention to your ammo count and if your using stickys and regular grenades equally there should be little notice of change unless your Sir SpamAlot.
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- Feb 7, 2008
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The ammo nerf affects the sodlier far more than the demo. Demos tend to camp near the ammo boxes and dispensers anyway. While soldiers tend to be leading the attacks and go solo a lot.
All good soldiers normally spam all 4 rockets at once before reloading when fight people from medium-long range. This will just make the soldier more reliant on getting lucky crits to kill stuff. And the real problem with soldier is crit rockets.
All good soldiers normally spam all 4 rockets at once before reloading when fight people from medium-long range. This will just make the soldier more reliant on getting lucky crits to kill stuff. And the real problem with soldier is crit rockets.
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- Feb 7, 2008
- Messages
- 74
[quote1204255271=Bøøster37]
A demoman and soldier hiding in high places can't do much, now...
[/quote1204255271]
I know man... The real problem has always been those cheap ass crits, lowering crit chance would have balanced them nicely or just buff the pyro and spy.
A demoman and soldier hiding in high places can't do much, now...
[/quote1204255271]
I know man... The real problem has always been those cheap ass crits, lowering crit chance would have balanced them nicely or just buff the pyro and spy.
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- Feb 21, 2008
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It does deal with the spam but I also saw something about removing crits which heck I will welcome with open arms...!
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- Feb 18, 2008
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Okay. Time for the dedicated demoman to drop his two cents on the table.
The basic limitation of the ammo is not a huge deal. A couple of times I was caught off guard since I'm more of a front-line demoman than a hide-and-go-boom demoman. The biggest problem is the fact that ammo boxes barely replenish anything now. A standard small box gives me one reload of grenades and a partial reload of stickies. "So what? Pick up fallen enemy's weapons" I can already hear some saying. When a demoman kills his enemies, the chance of having the weapon fall where the enemy fell is quite low. There are even times where the weapon will be ejected clear across the map. So, there were times where I was really pushing through the enemy lines but quickly died when my grenade reserves ran dry without any enemy weapons lying around.
Furthermore, it is really annoying to penetrate enemy defenses to try to take the sentries out just to find that I don't have enough ammo to actually attack the sentries once I get there.
I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
The basic limitation of the ammo is not a huge deal. A couple of times I was caught off guard since I'm more of a front-line demoman than a hide-and-go-boom demoman. The biggest problem is the fact that ammo boxes barely replenish anything now. A standard small box gives me one reload of grenades and a partial reload of stickies. "So what? Pick up fallen enemy's weapons" I can already hear some saying. When a demoman kills his enemies, the chance of having the weapon fall where the enemy fell is quite low. There are even times where the weapon will be ejected clear across the map. So, there were times where I was really pushing through the enemy lines but quickly died when my grenade reserves ran dry without any enemy weapons lying around.
Furthermore, it is really annoying to penetrate enemy defenses to try to take the sentries out just to find that I don't have enough ammo to actually attack the sentries once I get there.
I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
[quote1204262550=metastatic]
i actually think this is a great idea.... a lot of players who dont know how to use the demo just spam like mad.... the tunnel from point B to C in warpath is the exact reason why demos dont need to have an almost unlimited supply of nades/stickies....
however for the soldier, i think it's kind of a poor deal.
[/quote1204262550]
you have a good point i think. Demo's have a ridiculous amount of ammo for how strong nades and stickies are, but you know it is in the game and you just play with it...and dodge them and ctach them when they're off guard and blast them into smitherines ^^
i actually think this is a great idea.... a lot of players who dont know how to use the demo just spam like mad.... the tunnel from point B to C in warpath is the exact reason why demos dont need to have an almost unlimited supply of nades/stickies....
however for the soldier, i think it's kind of a poor deal.
[/quote1204262550]
you have a good point i think. Demo's have a ridiculous amount of ammo for how strong nades and stickies are, but you know it is in the game and you just play with it...and dodge them and ctach them when they're off guard and blast them into smitherines ^^
Since most people's posts are negative.. I'll post something different.
I like the update... A good demoman/soldier will always make their shots count. Its really easy for them to spam rockets/grenades without any skill. Think about the spam fest of grenades during stage 2 as blue.. Its kinda sad to see teams getting stuck. Now they'll have a better chance getting out without uber.
I like the update... A good demoman/soldier will always make their shots count. Its really easy for them to spam rockets/grenades without any skill. Think about the spam fest of grenades during stage 2 as blue.. Its kinda sad to see teams getting stuck. Now they'll have a better chance getting out without uber.
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- Feb 11, 2008
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- 756
[quote1204263334=Kaiwi]
Since most people's posts are negative.. I'll post something different.
I like the update... A good demoman/soldier will always make their shots count. Its really easy for them to spam rockets/grenades without any skill. Think about the spam fest of grenades during stage 2 as blue.. Its kinda sad to see teams getting stuck. Now they'll have a better chance getting out without uber.
[/quote1204263334]
That was the exact thought when I read the update note. I am sure there are lots of great demo/soldiers who actually predict or try to predict where the enemy army is, and shoot. However, there are too many people just shoot at the same spot for no reason and hoping to get a kill. It is one of the reasons given on the commentary mode that Valve wanted to remove the grenades spam in the first place. Well, at least I think that is where I got the last information.
I do agree reducing that much ammo seems very harsh, though. I think Valve is a great developer and did their homework, but need to wait and see how this one works out in games.
Since most people's posts are negative.. I'll post something different.
I like the update... A good demoman/soldier will always make their shots count. Its really easy for them to spam rockets/grenades without any skill. Think about the spam fest of grenades during stage 2 as blue.. Its kinda sad to see teams getting stuck. Now they'll have a better chance getting out without uber.
[/quote1204263334]
That was the exact thought when I read the update note. I am sure there are lots of great demo/soldiers who actually predict or try to predict where the enemy army is, and shoot. However, there are too many people just shoot at the same spot for no reason and hoping to get a kill. It is one of the reasons given on the commentary mode that Valve wanted to remove the grenades spam in the first place. Well, at least I think that is where I got the last information.
I do agree reducing that much ammo seems very harsh, though. I think Valve is a great developer and did their homework, but need to wait and see how this one works out in games.
I don't mind the demoman nerf so much, but the soldier one was a little too steep. 16 rockets seems a little too few. Mabey 24 would be a more reasonable size? It is kind of dumb to have a class that is labled as "Offensive" have such a small amount of ammo. By the time you get to where you need to go, you have no ammo left and are left to dry. Getting ammo from opponents isn't that easy either, since the soldier does have EXPLOSIVE rockets, usually knocking the ammo into a place that would get you killed if you were to retrieve it. I guess they are trying to slow the pace of the game down or something? In the long run, though, it doesn't really change the game much. It only cuts down on some of the spam.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2008
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[quote1204270198=chrisbliss18]
Okay. Time for the dedicated demoman to drop his two cents on the table.
The basic limitation of the ammo is not a huge deal. A couple of times I was caught off guard since I'm more of a front-line demoman than a hide-and-go-boom demoman. The biggest problem is the fact that ammo boxes barely replenish anything now. A standard small box gives me one reload of grenades and a partial reload of stickies. "So what? Pick up fallen enemy's weapons" I can already hear some saying. When a demoman kills his enemies, the chance of having the weapon fall where the enemy fell is quite low. There are even times where the weapon will be ejected clear across the map. So, there were times where I was really pushing through the enemy lines but quickly died when my grenade reserves ran dry without any enemy weapons lying around.
Furthermore, it is really annoying to penetrate enemy defenses to try to take the sentries out just to find that I don't have enough ammo to actually attack the sentries once I get there.
I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
[/quote1204270198]
What should have been done was lowering the damage or crit percentage or increase reload time. ( I don't think crits should be gone since they do help break stalemates)
Now the good soldiers will be very limited when leading an offense. While the bad soldiers will remain the same since they don't last long enough to use all the ammo anyway. And they will still get the majority of their kills from their nasty crit rockets.
Pyros are still useless against good soldiers and spies are still nearly useless against good players. No real problem has been solved. Except it's now easier for engineers to keep their stuff up when they don't have to worry about being shot at by vollies of rockets as much.
Heavies still suck when there are good snipers around. The only classes really benefit from the ammo nerf are snipers and engis and they don't really need buffing anyway and the bad players who can't last long enough to use all their ammo and rely on crits to get their kills.
Rocket and nade spam were the only things that kept good snipers from dominating on certain maps now snipers only have to worry about spies and other snipers.
Okay. Time for the dedicated demoman to drop his two cents on the table.
The basic limitation of the ammo is not a huge deal. A couple of times I was caught off guard since I'm more of a front-line demoman than a hide-and-go-boom demoman. The biggest problem is the fact that ammo boxes barely replenish anything now. A standard small box gives me one reload of grenades and a partial reload of stickies. "So what? Pick up fallen enemy's weapons" I can already hear some saying. When a demoman kills his enemies, the chance of having the weapon fall where the enemy fell is quite low. There are even times where the weapon will be ejected clear across the map. So, there were times where I was really pushing through the enemy lines but quickly died when my grenade reserves ran dry without any enemy weapons lying around.
Furthermore, it is really annoying to penetrate enemy defenses to try to take the sentries out just to find that I don't have enough ammo to actually attack the sentries once I get there.
I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
[/quote1204270198]
What should have been done was lowering the damage or crit percentage or increase reload time. ( I don't think crits should be gone since they do help break stalemates)
Now the good soldiers will be very limited when leading an offense. While the bad soldiers will remain the same since they don't last long enough to use all the ammo anyway. And they will still get the majority of their kills from their nasty crit rockets.
Pyros are still useless against good soldiers and spies are still nearly useless against good players. No real problem has been solved. Except it's now easier for engineers to keep their stuff up when they don't have to worry about being shot at by vollies of rockets as much.
Heavies still suck when there are good snipers around. The only classes really benefit from the ammo nerf are snipers and engis and they don't really need buffing anyway and the bad players who can't last long enough to use all their ammo and rely on crits to get their kills.
Rocket and nade spam were the only things that kept good snipers from dominating on certain maps now snipers only have to worry about spies and other snipers.
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 398
[quote1204271704=chrisbliss18]
Okay. Time for the dedicated demoman to drop his two cents on the table.
The basic limitation of the ammo is not a huge deal. A couple of times I was caught off guard since I'm more of a front-line demoman than a hide-and-go-boom demoman. The biggest problem is the fact that ammo boxes barely replenish anything now. A standard small box gives me one reload of grenades and a partial reload of stickies. "So what? Pick up fallen enemy's weapons" I can already hear some saying. When a demoman kills his enemies, the chance of having the weapon fall where the enemy fell is quite low. There are even times where the weapon will be ejected clear across the map. So, there were times where I was really pushing through the enemy lines but quickly died when my grenade reserves ran dry without any enemy weapons lying around.
Furthermore, it is really annoying to penetrate enemy defenses to try to take the sentries out just to find that I don't have enough ammo to actually attack the sentries once I get there.
I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
[/quote1204271704]
Yes! Now you can't kill my sentries as much!
Okay. Time for the dedicated demoman to drop his two cents on the table.
The basic limitation of the ammo is not a huge deal. A couple of times I was caught off guard since I'm more of a front-line demoman than a hide-and-go-boom demoman. The biggest problem is the fact that ammo boxes barely replenish anything now. A standard small box gives me one reload of grenades and a partial reload of stickies. "So what? Pick up fallen enemy's weapons" I can already hear some saying. When a demoman kills his enemies, the chance of having the weapon fall where the enemy fell is quite low. There are even times where the weapon will be ejected clear across the map. So, there were times where I was really pushing through the enemy lines but quickly died when my grenade reserves ran dry without any enemy weapons lying around.
Furthermore, it is really annoying to penetrate enemy defenses to try to take the sentries out just to find that I don't have enough ammo to actually attack the sentries once I get there.
I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
[/quote1204271704]
Yes! Now you can't kill my sentries as much!
