Cooling/Fan Upgrade Question(s)

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JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Hello folks,

I've been looking to do some basic upgrades to my system that is essentially currently, ALL stock components-- including the heatsink/fan that's on my CPU. I had been reading some of the other posts within these boards and was wondering, from those that are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff, what should I get if I'm looking to spend approx. $100-200USD over the next two months to upgrade my computer to improve performance. Improving cooling should/would improve performance, or am I wrong in assuming this?

I'm thinking that the heatsink/fan are givens to upgrade right away, so i'm looking for recommendations there and then anything else you guys can think of that's going to help improve performance. FYI the case has a rear 120mm and a side 80mm and that's all that's in there right now. It's a tight fit with my GPU making the space awkward but it all has worked well to this point.

I've never benched my system, so any suggestions on software to use and any good forums/guides to help get me started?

Thanks so much in advance.
(All Item #'s are NewEgg Item #'s)

System Specs:

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel
Item #: N82E16811119068

MoBo: ASUS P5K-E/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel
Item #: N82E16813131196

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 Conroe 2.33GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6550 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115030

PSU: hec Orion XPOWER585 ATX12V 2.01 585W Power Supply
Item #: N82E16817339001

GPU: HIS Hightech H195PRF512DDN-R Radeon X1950PRO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 - Retail

RAM: Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC22G6400LLK - Retail

Optical Drive: ASUS 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe and 14X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model DRW-1814BLT - OEM
Item #: N82E16827135145

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822136075
 
Hey,

Well you're right to assume that cooling generally helps computer speeds. I've got a few recommendations that should help speed things up.

-Case Airflow: One problem that haunts many gamers that have built their own computer is case fans not directing airflow properly. It's always good to do some homework and find what the best setup is for airflow in your case. Make sure you have an intake AND an exhaust, that side panel opening isn't enough. Hot air needs to be pushed out as quickly as possible.
-Cleaning: Dust is the #1 speed depriver for computers. I recommend taking an air can and spraying your computer, while off, once a month. It's amazing just what caked up dust can do to slow a system.
-Operating system: When's the last time you reformatted your hard drive? If it's been over a year, it's time for some cleanup. I like to reformat once every six months, but that's probably extreme for most people. Reformatting allows your computer to get rid of old registry setups and unused or removed software. Reformatting will speed up your computer tremendously if it's been a while. A friend of mine just reformatted after three years and his system literally doubled it's speed.
-RAM: More RAM is generally a good first step to speed up systems. A couple of 1 gig sticks can really help a system and for a good price. If you have XP 32, you're only gonna be able to use 3.33Gigs of RAM but Vista 32 allows for 8Gigs. I see you have DDR2 800 sticks right now, but you might want to consider finding some that run at 1066 since your mobo supports it. It's a little more expensive, but speed is speed.
-CPU Heatsink: The Conroe class generally runs pretty hot when gaming with a stock cooler. Getting a new heatsink would be a good decision, but you really have to be careful of making sure that the new heatsink will fit, especially if you're already having cramp issues. I'm looking for some smaller heatsinks right now and will try to give you some good recommendations soon.

Honestly, the best upkeep is keeping a clean system. Dust and a clogged up OS will kill speed and are the easiest things to fix. If you have any questions about anything, PM me or put it here, I'll check back soon.

Hope this helps.
 
Well, judging from the rest of your build, you can't really swap anything out for better performance within the $100-200 price range, so cooling is pretty much all you'll be able to do, unless you want to add more RAM (4+ GB makes a huge difference, but you need a 64 bit operating system like XP Pro 64).

For a system like that, I'd assume air cooling to be more than enough for you, so I'm going to list components that are good for that. I recently built a very expensive gaming rig for a friend with the same parts I'm listing below, and it performs amazingly well, with much hotter components than you have listed in your build.

First, a case. The case you have currently seems good, though if you're intending to get better airflow, one of the first good steps you can do is switching to a bigger, better case.

Almost hands down, within your price range (though it's a significant chunk of your budget) I'd recommend:

GIGABYTE 3D AURORA GZ-FSCA1-ATB Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233003
This case is very nice. It provides 3 120mm fan slots, very nice airflow, room for all your cables and components to "breathe," and a full sized case makes working inside a LOT easier. The only downsides are that switching cases can be a bit time consuming and going from mid to full tower, some cables may not be long enough to reach optical or hard drives that have been moved around, though you can usually figure this out without trouble.

If you wanted to stick to mid-tower, I'd say go with:

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
Same reasons as above, just lest space. Questionably more air flow from the mesh design, but smaller, and probably prone to dust without a lot of positive pressure. I've seen computers built with both cases, and both perform very well, though I like the former.

Thermal compound. Makes a HUGE difference. No matter how good your heat sink and fans are, if you can't get the heat from the processor into them, you're in trouble.

ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186020
Very nice stuff, this. The "leading brand" in this area is Arctic Silver 5, but this has been shown to outperform Arctic Silver by 2-5°C under the same conditions, and is non-conductive to electricity. This means if some gets on your motherboard or gets smudged somewhere while you're working with it it won't short out your components.

Heat sink. This is probably the most important part of your cooling system. I'd recommend:

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
I've been using Arctic Cooling for a couple of years now, and recommended them to every PC builder I know, and in every PC I've built. The performance is amazing, despite being dirt cheap (compared to Zalman, Thermaltake, etc.) it outperforms any product I've seen of them by miles. I'd say that in many cases, this heat sink will perform at near-watercooling levels if you've got a decent room temperature going on and good airflow, and some people have actually said that their Arctic Cooling systems work BETTER than water cooled systems they've rigged up (probably cheaper water cooling, but still). Really, get it.

Case fans. This is where you get the air OUT of your case.

Two of these for the back:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185057

For your front fan, if you're more worried about keeping that case's look of blue glowiness, go with:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811999127
however, for about double the price, you can get:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226012
which is INSANELY quiet. You can barely hear the thing. The downside, however, is that it's 38mm thick, and I can't remember if that'll fit in the front slot on the GIGABYTE case I recommended. I'm fairly sure you could manage it with a tight sqeeze, however, but if you want to be safe, go with the thermaltake fan above, I KNOW it fits. Or, you could always order both and send it back or keep it for future use, but that's an extra $20.

The fans I selected were specifically picked for a certain amount of airflow and pressure. A huge imbalance in pressure (intake vs. exhaust) will always be a problem. Perfectly balanced is good. Positive pressure (intake > echaust) means less cleaning, less dust, and about the same temperature as balanced. Negative pressure (exhaust > intake) means lower overall temperatures, but a LOT more dust. I tend toward positive, since I sometimes forget to grab a can of compressed air and go sprayin'. If you choose different fans, be sure to balance the pressure.

Thanks for reading through all this, and I hope it helped. If you pick the Gigabyte tower and the Thermaltake fan, the whole deal comes out to about $188, but should make a HUGE difference over the current case and fan setup.
 
Wow, thanks a bunch for that quick bit on informing me in addition to suggesting those products. I think that my best bet is to go with a full size case. In retrospect I was building a system on the cheap very quickly and went with initial recommendations and the case is one of the things I wish I would've put more into and waited just a bit more to secure the funds for a bigger/better case.

Though I'm not too keen on keeping my system in-line with all the blue LED fanciness, I figure I can negate the lights if I really want. Reason being, my system sits in my bedroom and is raised off the floor to be more in line with my bed, but I already have that problem so it's not really a big enough issue to warrant not taking care of these other things.

But thanks again to both of you, that helps a LOT.
 
The ATB is slightly, and I mean slightly, larger in the dimensions...other than that I don't see any differences
 
The ANB model's main difference is that it has a mesh side instead of a window. Aside from being less aesthetically pleasing (to me, anyway) the mesh is an opporotunity for dust and clogging.

Also, front audio shouldn't be something you concern yourself with most of the time. Very few sound cards support it unless they're on-board. Even then, sounds cards both on-board and after-market often have serious issues that make utilizing front panel audio very annoying. For example, in the computer I built for my friend, his very expensive Sound Blaster X-Fi stopped taking mic input (in either port) when connected to front audio and had a marked degredation in sound quality.
 
Just a thought, but I personally would think that having your case very near the ground would help it cool down faster. I have a cheap little window unit for this room, and I use it to help cool the room and my computer using the basic physical property of heat. It will always rise and cause air with less heat to fall. If you computer is up on a stand elevated off of the ground, it will be sucking in air that is slightly warmer, and will cause the ambient temperature around it to rise faster, as the heat does not have as far to rise, since it is closer to the ceiling. If it were to be on the ground, it would be taking in the coldest available air in the room. I keep it underneath where the window unit is, so that the cold air will rapidly sink down towards my computer. I have my comp resting on a 1 1/2 inch box to get it off of the ground, because it is currently carpet, which would cause it to trap in heat. Ok, enough on the physics lesson for today.

You don't really need a larger case to deal with heat. This is just going to open up more space for more air that needs to be moved. Cooler Master usually makes well-ventilated cases, so use their fan sockets to your advantage. Buy a few 120mm fans with high CFM (air movement) so that you can get a good flow going. Make sure you have a good setup to move air as efficiently as possible. Fans that are facing each other or both sucking air out that are opposite of one another get nothing accomplished, due to either air collision or the vacuum effect. Hmm this is starting to sound like a physics rant again.

Where I am going with this is that you can use physics to make simple and effective adjustments to your computer to get a more efficient cooling setup. I would suggest buying like 2 or 3 120mm fans to start with. Aside from what I have talked about, all you need to do is spray the dust out of your computer with a compressed air can about every month or two and you are good to go on cooling. The cans are relatively cheap and can be bought either online from a major retailer (i.e. Newegg or TigerDirect) or a local electronics store.
 
Well, the Centurion 5 is generally a good case, so I doubt he plans on switching it out for a new one quite yet. As I recall (used one in a friend's build), the front is completely mesh (backed with foam for filtration), so the general cooling idea with this case is maintaining a neutral pressure with the 80mm intake fan just being for the hdd's, and exhaust all the cpu area heat via the 120mm fan at the rear.

If you don't have a cooling fan in the front, it's not a huge deal, but I would recommend getting a mid-speed 80mm just to keep your hdd a little cooler. I wouldn't order fans off of Newegg, as you'll end up getting pounded on a shipping price of $5 for each $4 fan. My favorite 80mm would have to be Spire's FDO8025B1L3, with a cfm of 37.8 vs 31db (won't hear it above a chipset cooler, fwiw). Their cfm/db ratio is great and they're incredibly durable (have four in my rig, running quiet for 3 yrs, literally 24/7).

For the 120mm, you don't have to be too picky. Aim for a cfm output of 80-100cfm, and you still won't find much louder than 36db. The mid-level of this Scythe series should be more than adequate.

As far as a heatsink goes, I second the Arctic Cooling Freever Pro. You basically get the cooling you'd expect out of a $50+ heatsink for under 30 bux...

Heatsink grease isn't important, as long as you get something quality. Don't use what came with the cpu or heatsink -- you have to dump about 6 bux and get something good, whether it's AS, AC, or a rebadge like geil's. Performance differences between the quality ones are all heresay -- but you will definitely notice a 2-6 deg drop guaranteed by not using the cheap silicone stuff.

Since your gfx card is a single slot, it can't hurt to add in a slot blower to make sure a hot air pocket doesn't build up beneath the card (preferably 2 slots below, so it can build up some airflow). Something like this (link), or even just this (link), should fit the bill nicely.

Besides the 'accessorizing', just basic good placement is the most important thing. Try to route your cables completely out of the area around the gfx card, cpu, and memory when possible. Just try to make it as clean as possible, tucking away all the cables you don't use and making sure the rest are tucked away as much as possible. Also, try to keep your expansion cards towards the bottom of the case when possible, so you have as much free space around the gfx card as you can.
 
Simple rules to live by with air cooling.

1. Exhaust at the back, intake at the front. You don't want any chance of the intake fans pulling in the hot air the exhaust is spitting out.
2. Intake at the bottom, exhaust at the top. Hot air rises, so why fight the physics? Let the convective forces work for you.
3. Total exhaust flow should exceed total intake flow. If you're not pulling the hot air out fast enough, the cool air you take in will be hot before it reaches your components.
4. CLEAN OUT THE DUST! Even a few weeks of dust build up can kill the flow. Keep a bottle of canned air handy to blast your vents clear.

I've got my entire system overclocked and three video cards cranking, but my cases' ambient temperature is rarely 5C above room temperature. Whisper quiet to boot. Two 120mm on the back, one 120mm on the top, and a two 120mm in the front.
 
My case only has one 120mm for the rear and one 80mm for the side. If I'm not immediately replacing the case would it still behoove me to replace the cases stock fans with some of the previous suggestions?

At this point I think initially I'm going to buy that ~$30 CPU Fan/Heatsink and replace that and the case fans (if adviseable) then I'll work on getting a new case after that. I do want to eventually get a new case if for nothing else than to have more space to work with and thus upgrade with.

FYI: I am a costco regular and make sure that I have compressed air cans around my computer so that I can quickly blow it all out when it's shut down. A few weeks ago I went in and blew out the GPU's fan/area, the drive bays, the PSU fan/area and the CPU heatsink/fan. The CPU's heatsink was by far the dustiest part of the machine and I think that that is my primary concern right now, so that's why I'm thinking to replace the CPU fan/sink first as that's a cheap and easy upgrade I can do very soon. If I can just replace the case fans initially then I think I'll be good for a while. So if I take the suggestions so far then I'd be looking at that Arctic Cooler CPU fan, at least one of those 120mm fans for the rear once they're back in stock/or I can find one locally in addition to replacing the 80mm as well and a slot blower?

Quick question, there's been talk about a front fan, but in my current case I don't think I have an area to put a fan, should/can I put a fan up in the front or is that unnecessary/not possible?
 
It's always possible to mod your case, but you have to be comfortable working with metal and it's a lot of work.

Frankly, from the sound of things, your case simply wasn't designed well.

In your situation, the best thing you can do is slap something fast and loud into the 120mm slot. With a well designed case you can often obtain good airflow and a low decibel level at the same time, but with what you describe you might have to sacrifice silent running for raw power.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054

I've had a lot of luck with Scythe fans. All five of mine are of their silent running variety. From the reviews of this one, depending on how your case is designed you may need to get creative with the install. Push comes to shove, you can just attach the fan on the outside of your case. 133CFM is massive, but at 45dBA you might have to buy a third party noise canceling stuff to be happy. Or just be happy with a cooler case and turn your speakers up.


Edit: If and when you start looking at cases...

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16811112122

I've been building computers for just over a decade now and can honestly say I've never work with a better case. It's expensive as cases go, but well worth it in my mind. The case is designed with airflow in mind and every part of it is smooth and polished. All the sharp edges are lined in plastic sleeves, the drive bays are separated from the main interior and are built in such a way that installing a new drive takes about 10 seconds. I cannot say enough good things about this case, it's brilliant.
 
Alright, well, sticking with your current case there isn't much you can do.

Still, we can give it a shot for now, and I definitely do recommend making the heatsink a purchase.

As per Lafinass's suggestion of using something powerful and loud, I wouldn't say go with that yet. I've seen an 8800 GTX and Q6600 run just fine with 70 CFM or so in and out, with the processor at about room temperature (using the Arctic Cooling heat sink I linked).

As for the exhaust, if you DO want something really powerful, there's a 90 CFM fan that runs about 15 dBA, as opposed to the 133 CFM / 45 dBA combo mentioned before.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226013

The problem comes when you try and upgrade that 80mm to get some kind of matching airflow.. if you want to get close with 80-ish CFM, you'll get about 55 dBA of sound.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999612

Or you can go with something a lot slower, while saving your ears (a little):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835180085

The trouble is that you can never really find an 80mm fan that'll get you anything close to the performance and quietness of a 120mm, so when you upgrade your case, stay away from anything under 120mm, except maybe a slow-moving 92mm side intake (as long as there's still a 120 in the front) or top exhaust.
 
If I'm not mistaken, there's a 80mm fan bay right in front of the hdd cage (not easily accessible). The whole front of the case is foam-backed mesh (right?), so that fan is only really useful to cool the hdd, but be sure to blow off the front bezel's mesh often, as it gets clogged fast. Those push-in clips can be a real pain, so don't be afraid to take some pliers and wear them in a little, so it's easier to take off and clean.

The centurion 5 I worked with didn't have a side-panel fan space, so I'm not sure whether it's placement would be better for intake or exhaust (can always test each way), but it'd definitely be worth tossing an 80mm in there (in that case, I don't think a slot blower would be necessary).

If you go with a high-speed fan, you could always throw in a 7v/12v switch to toggle the fan speed (quick quide link). You can mount it anywhere, but the easiest is just drilling a hole in an expansion slot cover.

One note though... that psu scares me... I'd keep an eye on it, especially when you start adding some higher-powered cooling.
 
How does the PSU scare you? Not enough power or is it the unrecognizable brand?

I think at this point I'm probably going to bide my time and wait to get a new case and upgrade the cooling all at once. I think that if there's no real big difference between the ATB and ANB models of the case then I'll probably go with the ANB, it's cheaper, available on amazon (which I have GC's for) and has free shipping (if newegg had free shipping I wouldn't care as much but at $20 for shipping and then some...), that alone saves me approx. $40 which would cover one of the 120mm fans and the heatsink. I personally don't like the side window panel because I don't think my system is that cool to look at, not to mention I already have mesh on my side and I just wipe it down/air blast it every couple days to get the dust off before it starts to really build up.

Yes that one case that's 200+ looks absolutely amazing, but I can't justify spending 200+ on a case at this point in time.
 
[quote1207628956=JohnnyOnTheSpot]
How does the PSU scare you? Not enough power or is it the unrecognizable brand?[/quote1207628956]

Pretty much both... cheap psu's cause nothing but problems, usually ones that are very strange or hard to track down. Not too mention when they blow, it can be a real sight to see. I'd say the best investment, before cooling at all, would be a nice new psu from a trusted brand (something like Fortron, OCZ, or Antec (don't like Thermaltake, personally)). You should be able to find a decent deal on a 550-600w psu for ~50-60 bux.

[quote1207628956=JohnnyOnTheSpot]
Yes that one case that's 200+ looks absolutely amazing, but I can't justify spending 200+ on a case at this point in time.
[/quote1207628956]

A great case never goes out of style... I payed $125 for my Antec sx1030 about a decade ago, and it still champs along nicely. But I'd say your current case is perfectly alright for the time being, at least until you have a chance to use it for something else (like building a second pc, or selling it to a friend).
 
Completely outside your budget, I believe, but for anyone else looking for good power supplies:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...+40000058&Description=ABS&name=Power+Supplies

Nice stuff. Pretty, too. The price isn't because they're pretty, though, it's just a coincidence that with computer parts many times the prettiest parts are the highest quality... though, this isn't a rule (Thermaltake, Zalman, etc. aren't as great as they look).

Ultra is also a good brand, but you can't find their stuff on Newegg.

Also, though I see people recommending Antec power supplies, the only power supply I've actually had die violently was an Antec. Granted, it was a cheaper model and I was benchmarking a decent overclock, but still. I'd left the room, heard a loud pop as the lights flickered for a second, and went back to a roomful of smoke. Luckily, at least the fuses in the power supply managed to keep it from damaging the rest of the computer (immediately, anyway). The motherboard did die a couple of months later, but I can't attribute that 100% to the PSU. I've stayed away from Antec since.
 
[quote1207728719=Ephyu]
Ultra is also a good brand, but you can't find their stuff on Newegg.
[/quote1207728719]

Definitely not... used several in other peoples builds, and even made the the mistake of buying one myself (back when the x-connects were $15 after 80-100 bux in rebates); and every single one met with a fiery death.

Unless you got money to waste, I wouldn't bother going with any glitzy power supplies, let alone ones with gimmicks like 4 fans, lights, windows, or modular cables. You'll be paying for junk, not a good beefy psu.

Brands to look for: Antec, BFG (ones based on Fortron), Enermax, FSP/Fortron (more expensive models), PCP&C/OCZ, Seasonic.

Ones to avoid: CM (most, but not all), Coolmax, Enlight, Hiper, Hipro, In Win, Kingwin, Logisys, Powmax, Raidmax, Sparkle, Thermaltake, and anything you've never heard of before.

Also, many manufacturers don't manufacture the internals of many of their psu models, so it's always a good idea to try to find an in-depth review of the model you are looking at. If you have a Fry's Electronics around, you can go in and 'weigh' each psu by hand to guage general quality -- more weight = better.
 
OCZ vindicator is a very good heatsink with a 120 mm fan. It is made for overclocking. even though it is 50 $ is it sweeet
 
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