[poll] Warpath stalemates

[Captain Mental]

I'd like your feedbacks, sometimes you can push the last point for 25 minutes because there is too many sentries, snipers etc.

Sudden death for me is not even an option.

 

[Jubei]

It's waaaay fast as it is.

 

[Booster37]

Nope. the cap point is fine. Most of the time I play the map, the problem is just getting to the point as opposed to capping it.

IMO, Warpath needs a sudden death.

 

[imported_Digitalfeeling]

The cap is pretty fast. I would also prefer a sudden death

 

[estoroth]

Seems like the last point of the map snipers can make it a real mess. You can push or defend without getting headshot like every 2 seconds.... well, at least me. =)

 

[Zero_Death]

my only problem the last time i played warpath was the no respawn time.

warpath is a long map, and when we're having to trek across the whole map, and the whole other team is ready for us, it makes it pretty hard.

 

[DantesWitness]

I'd have to agree with Zero Death. The lack of a respawn time makes it too easy to defend points as the aggressive team isn't readily rewarded for actually killing anyone.

 

[dopey]

I think a way to combat the stalemates would be to have class limits but since thats out of the question. I don't see any other way. the skills of the two teams are evenly matched and there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[Viashimo]

The cause I think the cause of the stalement has two main reasons: 32 players (there are fewer stalements with 24 players only) and the really fast respawn time.

I think that if the respawn time were increased, stalemates would be fewer because a proper offense from either side would be able to push further - increasing incentive to stay alive, use medics, etc.

I'm not sure a faster cap time on the last point is wholly appropriate because it caps really really fast anyway.

 

[Captain Mental]

respawn time ... maybe for the defending team only? like 3 seconds?

 

[Viashimo]

i dunno, I was thinking both teams like 5-8seconds which is pretty long in warpath. only big issue I think is that offense usually has a long walk to the 'front'

 

[Mental Buga]

come on be serious, 3 seconds is hardly worth being there. I for one hate to be hampered by respawn time outs and I seriously dont know why most of you complain so much about the stalemates. I am usually having so much fun that winning doesnt seem to matter. Actually I kinda like the stalemates.. because it means the sides are evenly balanced and it makes it that much more intense.
So for me personally I don't care if we win or not.. cos usually its just so much fun to play that if we win its a bonus is all

 

[Doobs]

(FOR LAZY PEOPLE - SUMMARY OF POST AT THE BOTTOM)

[rant=Doobs]Back to the original post: I don't think that's a very good solution to the problem at hand. It'll simply give more incentive to have a spy just rush in, sap any sentry that's guarding the last point and undisguise to cap it. Other than that, if it were to be any faster there would hardly be time to detonate stickies that are there to prevent spies from capping by themselves. And, about there sometimes being too many sentries: not once have I seen a sentry stay up the entire time on warpath. They all go down eventually, it just takes a team effort to get them down. Other than that, the map is very well designed and there is no "ultra-rigged" sentry placement to where people can't take it out.

Simply put, more medics and better uber timings need to be used to prevent stalemates for offense, and more counter-pushes need to be used to prevent stalemates on defense (time is added if a point is re-taken/captured, allowing for more game time to be played to decide a winning team). This being said, we have a great community on warpath and teammates usually listen to each other, so just try to take lead in your team, especially the regulars that play on warpath. Maybe they'll listen to you and get their points back or even time their ubers correctly on offense to help get that last point to win the game.[/rant]

I'm not denying that stalemates will happen even if you try to lead your team, I'm just saying that there are other ways to take care of the problem than the timing on the last cap point. The last cap point's timer is already ridiculously fast and there's no need to take it from ~4s to anything less. It's boxed in a bulletproof cage and unless you have someone camping there to take out a prospective captor, there's no way that you can fend off someone capping the point in a lesser time frame.

 

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

[quote1207582093=Captain Mental]
respawn time ... maybe for the defending team only? like 3 seconds?
[/quote1207582093]

I think that that may work better. I am tending to agree that the quick respawn with 32 means that the opposing team can build up multiple sentries, have multiple snipers to keep people at bay (near the 2nd spawn point), and thus hold us back pretty effectively.

What essentially happens is that an attacking uber can come in and destroy a bunch of stuff/players but once their uber runs out, those people are already respawning and thus rebuilding. The only way I've seen it work in situations like that is to have an uber come in from the canyon valley area and have a soldier or demo blast themselves up and right into the cap point. Other than that it's become really difficult unless the 4th and 5th cap points are capped near simultaneous.

I would suggest trying to lengthen the respawn for defenders first and that if that still isn't helping with the attackers actually being able to cap out, then let's try some of the other suggestions that have been made.

 

[Glitch]

I was originally going to dissect Doobs' post, but I decided against it since the final product didn't seem very constructive.

Instead, I will just say this:

Warpath needs four things, in my opinion.

1. Longer respawn times.
2. Easier access to alternate routes/more alternate routes.
3. More cover from opposing sentry fire.
4. Shorter rounds.

I would also love to see the map tilted in favor of the assaulting side. Defense is way too easy, and the SHORTEST a stalemate can be is 30 minutes. I can't stress the "shorter rounds" point enough. Trust me, I've been in on some loooooong Stalepath sessions, and I believe everyone would agree that the most exciting part of a Warpath game is the beginning.

 

[Booster37]

[quote1207585394=Mental Buga]
come on be serious, 3 seconds is hardly worth being there. I for one hate to be hampered by respawn time outs and I seriously dont know why most of you complain so much about the stalemates. I am usually having so much fun that winning doesnt seem to matter. Actually I kinda like the stalemates.. because it means the sides are evenly balanced and it makes it that much more intense.
So for me personally I don't care if we win or not.. cos usually its just so much fun to play that if we win its a bonus is all
[/quote1207585394]I'm fine with that, but to me, it takes out most of the competition which is in other maps. Warpath is a really good map, but I seriously don't like playing 97 minutes just for a stalemate (and this has happened to me before ) Although I'm not a fan of ridiculously long respawn times (like the defense has in Dustbowl), it at least makes the game more balanced. Nobody likes respawn times, but it makes the game a bit fair and rewarding. I have no problem with a stalemate, but seeing that the respawn time is the main cause of it makes me question the momentum control of the map.

The current setup of the map I believe, is great for those who just picked up TF2 and are looking to just have all out fun. That's the good thing of the map. I can't see anyone who is new get bored of it anytime soon. However, the gamers who love and crave competition aren't going to be fans of the setup.

That is why I personally think in the future, we should get another Warpath server with a few tweaks. Maybe a respawn time of about 5-10 seconds or a sudden death or both.

 

[-nocturne=-]

Plenty of good ideas, though I don't think increasing the cap time will help any with stalemates. It'd be nice if the defending team had a bit of a respawn delay, but I doubt there's a way to enable it just for them, and adding a respawn time for all will probably only affect the offensive team.

I just think the map is prone to stalemates. After about the first 5 minutes of being pushed back to the cap point, the defending team will more than likely have at least half a dozen engineers, and the most successful tactic in that case is almost always a spy cap. Sometimes, though, there are a lot of good players on that can really make the difference in pushing for that last cap.

 

[Heater]

I currently like how warpath is now. As an engineer I love to defend points, and if you add a long respawn time, u give favor to the attacking team, meaning they will just cap the last point after a few ubers and game over. As it is now, its pretty even without skill of players taken into affect. So the attacking team that tries to get that last point needs to coordinate better to outplay the defending team, if they cant, why do they deserve to "win"

I do agree though that maybe 15-20 minute rounds would be better than 30.
I just think with longer respawn times, the teams will never be even, and each round will be won within a few minutes, making the fun stalemates non-existent.

stalemates = fun..... because you get a chance to actually play and defend

 

[Edrick]

You definetly saw the rise in stalemates once we went back to 32 players.

From my experience on Warpath, the skill of your team working together along with the skill of your players generally effects wether or not you are going to end up with a stalemate. I know that sounds like a duh statement, but it's amazing how often it comes true.

The only change that I wish could happen is a way to counteract the advantage the defending snipers have against people trying to advance around that last corner up through the middle. Other then that I think Warpath is perfect

 

[RESPAWN]

[quote1207594819=Iadien]
[quote1207580659=Zero_Death]
my only problem the last time i played warpath was the no respawn time.

warpath is a long map, and when we're having to trek across the whole map, and the whole other team is ready for us, it makes it pretty hard.
[/quote1207580659]

This is why I suggested changing the map to classic warpath, it has respawn timers AND you can't re-enter the spawn rooms once you leave them. I have played the map with 32 players and it's just a lot better.
[/quote1207594819]

Not allowing players to re-enter the spawn rooms sounds like a pretty bad idea to me. Every since Valve decreased the number of rockets a soldier can carry, I've noticed that I spend a lot more time visiting resupply areas than I did before. This goes double on Warpath since I tend to find myself providing a lot of suppression fire instead of actually aiming my rockets at people.