[poll] Warpath stalemates

[Food_Fight!]

What if the final point had ∞ time?

 

[imported_Digitalfeeling]

I. Hate. Respawn. Times. That is why I love eGO's Warpath. It is almost perfect to me. But most of the things that make it bad is because of snipers. Other than that, I love how much work goes into getting the point. Hell, I think getting the fourth point is a fun time. Getting any position is fun. Moving up and moving with your teams. Killing those spys coming up the side ramp and defending your snipers. It is beautiful and it is masterful.

I would say that the middle is the funnest place to fight, but I always have fun! I don't see what is wrong with stalemates as long as you are having fun with your team. I suppose it is nice to win, I admit. But that shouldn't be the game. The game should be the journey to victory.

 

[Thatguy]

In my opinion, warpath is a very well balanced map. I don't really notice THAT many stalemates. It is a very unique map to TF2 in that there is no set time limit and there is no such thing as an offensive and defensive team. You either win or you don't. The team with better teamwork and coordination will win. Levying respawn times will only cause more stalemates, due to the fact that it will just go back and forth on the map, which will make it to where rounds never end. If you make the last point instant capture, all a spy has to do is run up and swing his knife while standing on the point. That is silly. This game took a LOT of time to make and a LOT of time to balance classes and maps. I have seen nothing that is unbalanced about warpath.

As mentioned before, it is mainly about how you time your ubers and how you use them, and how other players on your team follow the uber pushes. If you can get the concept of stat padding out of your head while you play warpath, it can be a very fun map. All too often I have seen where people would rather retreat to spare death rather than keep moving forward to push a respawn wave back. And to conjoin to that, the fact that the rest of the team sits back and watches the one medic and the one pyro run out with an uber to make a few people back up. Once the uber runs out, the pyro dies and the medic is already back in the safety of their team building another uber to do the same thing again. If the team will simply follow the uber medic/pyro , and stop worrying about their stats and if they might die, the team can easily seem overwhelming to their opponent and push them back with ease.

The key to no stalemates? TEAMWORK!

Nuff said.

 

[Mr. Chair -TR-]

Yeah, I love to play medic on warpath, and thats usually all I end up doing. Uber someone, he kills 3-4 people, and I run back after uber is over, the other guy is left to die, because nobody followed us in. If people would follow us in, I'd stay with the guys and keep the push. But more often than not, if nobody follows you, its just suicide, and staying alive to build another quick uber is far more important than keeping that lone demoman alive for 3 seconds longer.

Please, dont change the respawn times. Thats the main reason I love it. You die, and 10 seconds later you're right back in the thick of it again. None of the dustbowl stuff where you die once and you may never spawn again on defense. I know its somewhat necessary on maps set up like dustbowl, but warpath needs no respawn times. Keep it like it is. 25 minute timers after a cap is just beautiful. Chaotic teamwork rules. That single ubered pyro rush that works everywhere else just wont cut it. You gotta bring more to the table than that. You basically gotta have your whole freaking team up there to cap and keep a point.

 

[Booster37]

I agree on a few points in which everyone makes. The fact that there is no respawn time makes Warpath the most fun map, IMO. However, I must be on when it's a crunch, because I see a lot of stalemates.

Thatguy makes a point. Teamwork is the ultimate way of winning, but in a few cases, both teams are both full of teamwork, and teamwork on both sides = a shorter stalemate.

The map isn't bad, it's great. There isn't really anything wrong with it, but being the Dustbowl enthusiast that I am, I like to see one team win, one team lose. End of story.

 

[Flippy the Squirrel]

I realize that what I'm posting may get me shanked in the street, but I think Warpath feels fundamentally unfinished. There are some places where it seems to be a little unbalanced, and I think a few changes here and there could fix that beautifully. Notice, for instance, that most Valve maps, even 2Fort, have somewhat circular aspects to them. Warpath is missing this dynamic, which means that it's a constant football-style back and forth, which gets old after a while.

That's not saying that I don't have fun there, but the matches seem to have a sameness to them that gets old after a while. I've been really impressed with Sunsettown for just that reason ... even though it has a "back and forth" approach, it is still circular in approach, which means that strategies are more likely to vary.

This extends to maps in CS:S, DoD, and practically any other game. Linear maps get old quicker, while circular maps have a much longer life. So, that having been said, I think the thing that would fix Warpath is the addition of a few more tunnels, paths, etc to give it a more circular feeling.

BTW, this same problem exists on Badlands, which is why I think people got tired of it so fast, although the problem was less aggravated because of the height differences in several areas of the map.

Well, that's my two cents.

 

[Raysorn]

I think that Warpath needs a sudden death, that is for sure. Also, I think that Warparth is the kind of map that you could play 200min and the game isn't over yet. Maybe that is making the charm of warpath and it's true that it's cool even very cool. But in an other point of view, it's could be more fun if a team finally win. There is too much of stalemates. Warpath is the kind of map that put the teams on the same step even if the blue team or the red team is a little bit better than the other one. You need luck to win.

Anyway, It's clear that warpath needs some modifications.

 

[Lafinass]

Agreed Fippy. Gets old fast.

I hate maps with stalemates though. In general.

 

[Sacrifist]

Excellent discussion. I brought warpath to TF2 and I have been currently testing a updated version with a couple different communties. If you are interested in giving this new beta a test, Ill post a link. This isnt the classic instant cap version either. Its similar in looks and has alot of the same features, but has cap times similar to cp_warpath.

This current test version is just about the last version for testing before I have enough data for a new updated final version which will be named warpath2. One of the things new to this test version is a ladder that allows quicker access to the cliff across from points 2 and 4. It has had alot of mixed reviews so if you do want to test this version, I would like to hear your guys take on that, as well as anything else about the map. Ill keep an eye on this thread.

 

[Thatguy]

Go ahead and send a PM to GardenGroveVW about it via these forums, and talk to him about the new map. We have clan events that are geared towards stuff like this where we play custom maps and maps made by other people. We recently played a remake of the classic Well map even. Talk to him about the map and see what he thinks. We might try it out and see how it is and mabey give you some feedback on it

 

[Sacrifist]

hehe, well_classic is a map Hiya! and I brought to TF2 also. Ill give Garden a shout then.

 

[Guardian-X]

I vote for bringing back respawn times. It follows Valve's vision of decreasing stalemates by rewarding the offensive side. Teleporters are the key to keeping a good offensive supply line going, and defense is naturally difficult when one has to wait for the spawn timer to run out. Is it possible to make a universal spawn timer? For instance, you could die and instantly spawn because the timer runs regardless of deaths. That could lead to a full wave of respawned players, rather than a trickle. Ignore this if it already works this way...I don't pay attention to the spawn timer that much as I'm usually too excited watching the action in the dead spectator cam.

Also, limiting the classes to 2 engineers per team could alter the gameplay just enough to make defense harder for both sides, making teamwork even more crucial.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Our warpath server is about to break into the top 20 servers in the world. The reason everyone keeps coming back for more and never gets tired is because its a "meatgrinder". Thats Johnt's catchphrase for maps like Avalanche in DODs and Warpath has that unique quality in TF2. I get sooooo caught up in constantly changing from offense to defense and pushing with ubers I dont really care about stalemates.

I am from the school that teaches if it aint broke dont fix it, boys and girls it aint broke! This server is well on its way into the top 10 in the world! If we tinker with its success now I believe we could be set back a long way. As far as Sacrifist is concerned, man I would like to speak with you on our ventrilor server! Warpath is a total masterpiece of a map and its probably the most fun out of any mainstream map in TF2, my hats off to you!

You can send a pm to Garden or myself about this, you never can tell we might can dedicate a whole 24/7 server to that new warpath2! We certainly could help you out with testing it though.

 

[Aiki]

[quote1207609574=Captain Mental]
I'd like your feedbacks, sometimes you can push the last point for 25 minutes because there is too many sentries, snipers etc.

Sudden death for me is not even an option.
[/quote1207609574]
well the game u and me had today at about 5:00 EST was going everywhere! like we where Capping points and losing them too. crazy stuff man. i say it all depends on the team and palyers

 

[Noravic]

I absolutely agree with Flippy. Warpath does have tunnels (like under the bridge) but this map definitely favors the explosive/heavy offensive tactics. Spies are at a real disadvantage because there aren't that many paths to take to get behind the enemy lines. I don't like the choke points that this map has also near the bases for each team. This definitely goes along with the "meatgrinder" idea. While the map is fun, it doesn't really live up to the game's title of TEAM fortress 2. This map is more about brute force. Warpath shouldn't be tinkered with, but I would prefer maps like 2fort or dustbowl.

Of course, I once played 5 or so hours straight on this map. The fun/challenging part is to accurately determine when it is safe to push and when it is not. I've had a ton of fun as a medic because the front lines would push forward and ease back a bit, but then we would make more progress. People have to step back when it is safe and push as a group, even though teamwork and tactics is limited beyond this aspect.

Especially for the choke points, the sentries have an unfair advantage in this game. Sometimes a stalemate could be entirely due to a bunch of sentries covering an area and not enough ubers. It is hard for spies to reach groups of sentries because there are plenty of engineers, and the spies cover each other. This goes along with the idea that the map is a lot about brute force.

I was also wondering: why does Convoy generally have less players? Is Convoy "worse" than the other maps?
Whatever, this question should be saved for another thread.

 

[Bub]

Sudden death!!

All Bonesaws!!

 

[!Woodstock!]

^^ Ditto.

Every time I play we usually get stuck between the 2nd and the 3rd cap points. But that is ok as a medic because I get plenty of healing and Ubers without dying.