[poll] Teleporter camping

[Flippy the Squirrel]

[quote1209410737=KaptainKangaroo]
I don't see a difference between camping a teleporter and setting up an sg to target anyone who comes out, which is a bannable offense the last time I checked. Just sounds like splitting hairs. Just because a team is unorganized, clueless, or simply not talented enough to understand they are going to die using a teleporter doesn't mean it's alright to camp it. The same could be said for people trying to grief a server. Just taking advantage of a situation for entertainment or points rather than it being strategically helpful.
[/quote1209410737]
The difference is that frequently two people will collude together to cause grief to their own teams by building the gun/tele combo, whereas this is a matter of players directly opposing one another.

The engineer in the griefing scenario is not bloodly likely to destroy his teleporter if he "learns" that a SG is taking out all who enter, but a normal player would.

It's also exceptionally rare for that kind of pairing to happen by accident as the SG and teleporter have to be put in pretty specific places for the gun to not destroy the teleporter but to destroy the player who appears.

 

[KaptainKangaroo]

That didn't really answer my question.. Sg/teleporter griefing involves two people doing it intentionally..camping a tele involves ones person doing it intentionally to achieve the same goal.. In the SG scenario no one is forced to keep using the teleporter and the engie keeps it there on purpose.. Teleporter camping scenario no one is forced to use the teleporter and the engie might not be aware, might not care, or assumes that his team will get the exit back on their side of the fight. Sounds pretty similar still.

 

[Lafinass]

Your first case is the collusion of two players for one player to get his own mates killed.

Your second case is an enemy player taking advantage of a failure of communication.

How do you not see a glaring difference?

I camp teleporters all the time and rarely get more than 2 or 3 before the exit is detonated. Heck, occasionally I end up eating rocket for my trouble. Camping an exit with any success means being dangerously close to it, far closer than one usually wants to get to some classes.

Besides, anybody that takes a teleporter and is not prepared for immediate action is loads of fail anyway. I go through teleporters with my chaingun spinning.

 

[Noobkiller]

meh the only real effective way of camping a tele is to be a spy and stab anyone that comes through and usually before you get your 3rd kill someone's opening fire on you

 

[KaptainKangaroo]

From that argument I'd have to assume that building an sg to kill anyone who goes through a teleporter is allowed as long as the person who built the teleporter didn't plan it. Since at that point it'd be the teleportee's inaction that got him called. The same number of people would be killed and there is the same risk of being killed or having the sg destroyed.

 

[Captain Mental]

My view on this:

To take a chance to camp the teleport means you get a chance of getting killed to and the teleport still remains and can be used against you. It is not good strategy. Destroy it.

I never actually thought of staying next to one and wait for people to come out. I think any form of camping should not be allowed so there is no question about camping or no-camping policies. Easier to deal with.

 

[Flippy the Squirrel]

[quote1209413494=KaptainKangaroo]
From that argument I'd have to assume that building an sg to kill anyone who goes through a teleporter is allowed as long as the person who built the teleporter didn't plan it. Since at that point it'd be the teleportee's inaction that got him called. The same number of people would be killed and there is the same risk of being killed or having the sg destroyed.
[/quote1209413494]
If you can create a sentry gun in such a way as to not take out an enemy teleporter, and the engineer on the other team is not savvy enough to destroy it after a few irate team-mates tell him about it, more power to you.

However, be aware that people might very well think that you're griefing, and you'd get kicked/banned form the server. So, while it's legitimate tactic, it's tough to pull off and likely to cause you more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Lafinass]

[quote1209413685=Captain Mental]
I think any form of camping should not be allowed so there is no question about camping or no-camping policies. Easier to deal with.
[/quote1209413685]

Right. So we just go ahead and set the class limit on demomen and pyros to 0.

It's just like spawn camping. How can people cry about being camped in a protected spawn and not in the hallway after? At what point do you deem the camping to be acceptable? Or shall we all just hunker down in our intel room or on the cap point?

Valve, for all of their flaws, have done a decent job of making a balanced game. If they had wanted to prevent camping teleporters, you'd have a second or two of invulnerability coming out of an exit. Lets stop over-complicating this, the minute you step out of your spawn, you're fair game.

 

[Captain Mental]

[quote1209414012=Lafinass]
[quote1209413685=Captain Mental]
I think any form of camping should not be allowed so there is no question about camping or no-camping policies. Easier to deal with.
[/quote1209413685]

Right. So we just go ahead and set the class limit on demomen and pyros to 0.

It's just like spawn camping. How can people cry about being camped in a protected spawn and not in the hallway after? At what point do you deem the camping to be acceptable? Or shall we all just hunker down in our intel room or on the cap point?

Valve, for all of their flaws, have done a decent job of making a balanced game. If they had wanted to prevent camping teleporters, you'd have a second or two of invulnerability coming out of an exit. Lets stop over-complicating this, the minute you step out of your spawn, you're fair game.
[/quote1209414012]

Spawn camping doesnt exist since you can always build an uber to come out, that is what i have been told since i've been in ego. I for one dont see much camping in our servers, it is the kind of thing that should be a judgement call when you're actually witnessing what is happening.

 

[NinjaFluff]

If the enemy backs you up to the point of camping your spawn or a TP, then you've got it coming...

I used to think it wasn't fair about the spawn camping, before someone noted that the spawn is protected from this. Made a lot of sense, and from then on, I've had no problem with camping such as that. As far as the TP camping goes, yeah, any self-respecting engie will blow it up after he gets griped out enough times. If he doesn't, well, the rest of the team ceases helping him.

 

[Captain Mental]

Also the fact that once you got killed by somebody waiting next to a teleport, hopefully you're bright enough to warn your team mates

 

[Lafinass]

The ONLY time camping should ever be officially condoned is if they're camping in such a way that makes the game indistinguishable from a deathmatch. If the offense is camping the defense while unguarded cap points remain uncapped or if they're camping your spawn and no attempt on the intel has been made.

Unless that very specific qualifier is met, any form of 'camping' is fair game.

 

[HoosTrax]

I think if you're going to argue that teleporter-camping should not be allowed, then you're opening up a whole can of worms, as far as dictating to people how they should be playing the game... to the point of being draconian.

I could list a whole host of other things:

- spawn camping
- engies building their dispensers up top next to their sentries instead of at ground level and accessible to their teammates
- engies defending the second point before the first one has fallen
- that whole intentional suiciding thing

I think plenty of other people have already summed up the reasons why things like teleporter camping are legitimate parts of the game, so I won't rehash on that. Do I do it? No - too much risk that the person coming out of that tele is going to get a crit rocket/bomb on me. Do I think it's all part of the game? Yes.

If you lay a tele down behind enemy lines, do you honestly expect them to roll out the red carpet for you? Getting teleporter camped is the risk you take.

One last point (I keep editing myself to add more thoughts) - from a psychological standpoint, it's a perfectly valid strategy. If you get killed going through a tele, the next time you'll likely think twice about taking that tele into the enemy base. It might lead you to take a longer route, in which case the camper has scored a psychological victory.

 

[>:| Face]

Every time I see an unguarded, working teleporter exit and I'm playing Demo, I'll always try and lay stickies on it just to detonate the second a guy warps through. I really see no difference between laying stickies on a tele and putting stickies right around a corner so that nobody can see them. Of course the first is more annoying to the victim, but both are completely legit tactics.

Same for if a Spy or Pyro camps a tele. If the second you see a guy go through a tele you see his name on the top right of the screen, then don't take the tele and inform your teamates.

The only time I'm against tele camping is if the engie who built the tele built it for the purpose of greifing his team.

 

[me]

I'm against it. The only time I do anything but kill a teleporter straightaway is when I'm demoman, and then I put down a few stickies around it. I know I shouldn't it's just so hard to resist the urge.

 

[UN4M3D]

yeah exactly your just defending your base, theres no rules against HAVING to destroy an enemy teleporter if you see one unguarded and think "Oh lets get some kills here!" then good on you.

Also I see the point in engies not destroying the teleporters once they are being camped at by an enemy, as they think "Oh if I kill this one pyro when I go through this teleporter then I can build few sentries and we can win this game!"

Not gonna give up a chance on winning are they?

 

[Ducttape]

I've seen this happen; however, it's only funny when it's happening to the other team B) anyone who's ever taken a tele and been blown to smithereens has to admit that they were probably thinking unhappy thoughts about their team engie.

in defense of the engie, he/she's probably thinking, "allright! the other team capped the point and now my tele exit's behind enemy lines." :O ...i've been ingame and had engies anounce this very thing. could this be considered engie assisted homicide?

 

[Monkeybits]

Good points everyone. Camping a teleporter is fine if you want to do it. If collusion is discovered, then it would absolutely be a bannable offense, because it's the same in spirit as the sentry/exit issue. The difference is one of probability. A player camping a teleporter is probably doing it out of happening upon the teleporter and taking advantage of the situation. A sentry/teleporter combo is very likely the result of collusion. While neither case is 100% certain, there's sufficient probability to consider one fine and the other against the rules.

I'd never considered camping a teleporter.

The rule of thumb on such issues is generally: can the obstacle be overcome through same team cooperation? If so, it's probably okay. Does it require collusion between opposing teams? If so, it's probably not okay, because that defeats the purpose of the game.

Thanks for weighing in, everyone.