[Jail] Make CT areas autowants (catwalks, fenced areas, etc.)

[Rogue Sniper]

Watched people play some Canyondam v3b tonight. CTs already at a disadvantage of 3-1 ratio, Ts just waltz on up and knife the CT and BAM soon the CT team capitulates and Ts own another property they can't rent out due to rising crime rates and falling property prices.

But seriously... idk why they're not with eGO maps hitting the server slowly, CTs should be using these areas and not baiting and Ts shouldn't be allowed to live if they go in them.

 

[Sampaio]

With the extensive training and discipline, CTs go through in their training school, they need to be prepared for any situation with the tools at their disposal (Guns, knifes etc). Prisoners don't get those trainings in any school.

Anyway, the rules of JB state that guards are not allowed to camp/stay in a restricted area. So if you want to restrict those areas, then guard can't even be there and look at Ts. Assuming you are referring to catwalks and such? If not, maybe I misread.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

With the extensive training and discipline, CTs go through in their training school, they need to be prepared for any situation with the tools at their disposal (Guns, knifes etc). Prisoners don't get those trainings in any school.

Anyway, the rules of JB state that guards are not allowed to camp/stay in a restricted area. So if you want to restrict those areas, then guard can't even be there and look at Ts. Assuming you are referring to catwalks and such? If not, maybe I misread.

CT's should also not bait. CT areas are made to help prevent this. CT areas also let CTs move around without getting knifed. The rules also need to be changed as I assume that was due to people camping armory and the like even when no Ts could be seen or whatever and if you are moving around the map in CT areas as a CT, you are not camping since you are not sitting in a single area.

We had this rule on the old Jailbreak server, it worked fine, people still rebelled, people didn't camp, and baiting was down like 80% by having these areas.





Nick explained autowant perfectly, as that is Jail terms (yes for the last 10 years it has been wanted / autowant/ etc) people slowly started to use TTT because they were coming from there and the fact its from police officers are the ones in charge of county and city jails (in the US usually). Hence the you are wanted for X crime or Y infraction and that makes more sense than someone screaming SO-N-SO IS KILL ON SIGHT FOR LITTERING.

 

[Jacko]

I think we should just keep armory, vents, and secrets restricted areas.

I was in canyondam during the scenerio you described. Its up to the Warden and CT's to pay attention to these rebellers. If the T makes it to the catwalk where the CT's are then they should be KOS immediately for detouring and delaying.

Basically this is already a thing if Warden never ordered the T's to go there in the first place.

 

[crc1225]

This would also be helpful when a warden dies. Right now a warden dies and it becomes a freeday till a new warden gives new orders. On a map like Canyon and some other tighter maps like vipinthemix if the ct areas were autowants then the ct's would be able to take control of the people running around while still staying safe in the ct area.

Also what has bugged me since day one is that on freedays it is basically, "Hey the ct's can't stand anywhere without being killed or camping armory, What hiding spot can I go in and just camp there until I'm last guard or killed" This is the stupidest thing. Ct's should always be actively trying to control the prisoners even on freedays. If the ct areas were autowants then the ct's could stay safely in the ct area while still controlling the t's.

 

[Jacko]

Also what has bugged me since day one is that on freedays it is basically, "Hey the ct's can't stand anywhere without being killed or camping armory, What hiding spot can I go in and just camp there until I'm last guard or killed" This is the stupidest thing. Ct's should always be actively trying to control the prisoners even on freedays. If the ct areas were autowants then the ct's could stay safely in the ct area while still controlling the t's.

CT's had more freedom back in the olden days. I always like the concept of Warden being able to restrict an area or a room during a freeday to make things more interesting instead of a CT hide and seek.

 

[Scourge]

CT's had more freedom back in the olden days. I always like the concept of Warden being able to restrict an area or a room during a freeday to make things more interesting instead of a CT hide and seek.

I agree 100% with both of these statements. Mainly that restrictions make it much more interesting

 

[Corrupted]

I don't think ct's will not die if ct areas are "autowant", since most ct's die because there's a mass amount of t's some with guns that are are able to just rush them. The t's can EASLY get into armoury with a secret and kill a CT with guns. I don't think it would be easier if ct areas were autowants. Also how would you define a CT area? An area where ct's hang out most of the time? I understand maps like umbrella with the railings, but what about vipinthemix? Also would this include the st, if a st has a freeday and he just goes onto the catwalk on undertale to use the booster does that mean he's autowant, that would be really cancer towards the st. I'm in the middle with this, I understand that this can make ct a lot of easier but this could also cause a mass amount of problems.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

I don't think ct's will not die if ct areas are "autowant", since most ct's die because there's a mass amount of t's some with guns that are are able to just rush them. The t's can EASLY get into armoury with a secret and kill a CT with guns. I don't think it would be easier if ct areas were autowants. Also how would you define a CT area? An area where ct's hang out most of the time? I understand maps like umbrella with the railings, but what about vipinthemix? Also would this include the st, if a st has a freeday and he just goes onto the catwalk on undertale to use the booster does that mean he's autowant, that would be really cancer towards the st. I'm in the middle with this, I understand that this can make ct a lot of easier but this could also cause a mass amount of problems.

We never had an issue with anything you brought up. We also had no maps with secrets or vents that led to armory as that reduced the strategy and role play of trying to rebel. STs knew where they could or couldn?t go and everything worked out fine. CTs live longer in CT areas than on the same floor as Ts and it reduces the noise of ?he didnt warn me to back away in three seconds?.

Of course they could get rushed by a lot of Ts at once but apparently everytime I?ve brought up coordinating a rebellion everyone whines and tells me its not possible which isn?t my problem.

If maps dont have CT areas then whatever though that?s poor design as it leads to CTs habitually baiting because there?s no where safe for them to be.

They help CTs move around the map easier but can restrict their safety as if a T runs off to an area not covered or connected by a CT area then they have to leave their safe areas and then they have the chance of being killed.

 

[Corrupted]

We never had an issue with anything you brought up. We also had no maps with secrets or vents that led to armory as that reduced the strategy and role play of trying to rebel. STs knew where they could or couldn’t go and everything worked out fine. CTs live longer in CT areas than on the same floor as Ts and it reduces the noise of ‘he didnt warn me to back away in three seconds’.

Of course they could get rushed by a lot of Ts at once but apparently everytime I’ve brought up coordinating a rebellion everyone whines and tells me its not possible which isn’t my problem.

If maps dont have CT areas then whatever though that’s poor design as it leads to CTs habitually baiting because there’s no where safe for them to be.

They help CTs move around the map easier but can restrict their safety as if a T runs off to an area not covered or connected by a CT area then they have to leave their safe areas and then they have the chance of being killed.

Soo this was a feature?? When I was writing that, then I thought this wasn't a thing already and this was only problems I thought this could bring up. Also if the ST was a new player how could he know where to go and where to not go. I don't understand what you mean with:
"If maps dont have CT areas then whatever though that’s poor design as it leads to CTs habitually baiting because there’s no where safe for them to be. ".
Now with the maps st's couldn't really go anywhere. Let's look at undertale, if a ST wanted to play decath he would have to go to the CT controlls area which you could consider as a ct area and start decath, now he can not do that since he would be auto kos (I'm going to use auto kos since I'm more used to it). You constantly talk about how it WAS, could we now talk about how it is RIGHT NOW. We are not in the past, we are in the present. Just because there wasn't any problems back then doesn't mean there will not be any problems now. Why do you wan't this to be a thing in the first place? Something MUST have happened that you wan't to make this suggestion.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

Soo this was a feature?? When I was writing that, then I thought this wasn't a thing already and this was only problems I thought this could bring up. Also if the ST was a new player how could he know where to go and where to not go. I don't understand what you mean with:
"If maps dont have CT areas then whatever though that’s poor design as it leads to CTs habitually baiting because there’s no where safe for them to be. ".
Now with the maps st's couldn't really go anywhere. Let's look at undertale, if a ST wanted to play decath he would have to go to the CT controlls area which you could consider as a ct area and start decath, now he can not do that since he would be auto kos (I'm going to use auto kos since I'm more used to it). You constantly talk about how it WAS, could we now talk about how it is RIGHT NOW. We are not in the past, we are in the present. Just because there wasn't any problems back then doesn't mean there will not be any problems now. Why do you wan't this to be a thing in the first place? Something MUST have happened that you wan't to make this suggestion.

We generally helped new players know when they went on ST or they actually asked for help.

I state things that how things worked in the past because they worked. There are issues I see, hear, and read about and go ‘we solved this by doing X or having Y rule’. Obviously thats not the case now as those things were ignored and all the old rules or training we had basically were thrown out the window. I mean I watched CTs on catwalks and CT areas get knived on Canyondam because of the whole ‘CT areas aren’t autowants’ which doesnt make sense as you are role playing in a prison and guards with guns dont usually sit in the same areas as prisoners.

If a warden is killed then its a freeday and Ts have like three to five seconds to rush up these areas before CTs can gain control and its usually too late. Its tough to tell them to back away and grab warden or if someone grabs it they can only issue orders so quickly which may be too late for CTs in areas where they should be safe.

 

[Corrupted]

If a warden is killed then its a freeday and Ts have like three to five seconds to rush up these areas before CTs can gain control and its usually too late. Its tough to tell them to back away and grab warden or if someone grabs it they can only issue orders so quickly which may be too late for CTs in areas where they should be safe.

I can agree with that for sure, I do know what you mean. I think we could fix this by let's say having a knifing distance from ct's. Whenever warden dies and it's a freeday T's should not rush CT's and there should be a knifing distance of 3. I think that the CT area's shouldn't be autowant since I feel like this would change how jailbreak is played a bit (I don't know why it's just that I feel like it would be different). Whenever warden dies it's usually already a T win. Rebeling is soo easy because all you need is one gun in stack, warden dies, a T gets warden's gun, they both kill CT's, other T's get guns as well and than its just mayhem, ct's also have to becarefull about the t's that run to them and try and knife them. It's quite hard to make both sides equal, but making CT areas autowant's is definetly not the way to fix it in my opinion.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

I can agree with that for sure, I do know what you mean. I think we could fix this by let's say having a knifing distance from ct's. Whenever warden dies and it's a freeday T's should not rush CT's and there should be a knifing distance of 3. I think that the CT area's shouldn't be autowant since I feel like this would change how jailbreak is played a bit (I don't know why it's just that I feel like it would be different). Whenever warden dies it's usually already a T win. Rebeling is soo easy because all you need is one gun in stack, warden dies, a T gets warden's gun, they both kill CT's, other T's get guns as well and than its just mayhem, ct's also have to becarefull about the t's that run to them and try and knife them. It's quite hard to make both sides equal, but making CT areas autowant's is definetly not the way to fix it in my opinion.

If its that easy to rebel then CTs need the help. It just gives them a bit of help vs what it is now.

Also knifing distance doesn’t take lag into account. Aka on my screen you werent but on yours you were soo who’s right?

 

[Corrupted]

If its that easy to rebel then CTs need the help. It just gives them a bit of help vs what it is now.

Also knifing distance doesn?t take lag into account. Aka on my screen you werent but on yours you were soo who?s right?

Yes ok they might need the help, but only if they're not cancer. Ct's could easly be cancer and not need anything like this, they could kill of people that dont go directly to the marker etc. The knifing distance isn't a problem. On freedays before T's get guns, if a T get's within your knifing distance you just kill them I've never seen a problem with lag, if someone is sort of lagging and the knifing distance is 3 than you can obviously see if he's within that knifing distance. There is no detailed distance, knifing distance is just a estimate, you can not define it exactly in such situation. If the knifing distance is 3 than just don't get close to them, simple.

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[teimyw8]

Believe what rogue is trying to say is use the catwalks and don't bait. I guessing that there has been a lot of baiting going on in the new map because it has less space on the floor because there are ct areas and catwalks noted by the yellow and black striped tape on the ground. Please use the ct areas. If you are pro-baiting or anti-successful rounds, I understand if you disagree. Thank you, good day.

 

[RedDragonKnight]

Also I just want to point out the whole point of this thread was to discuss weather ct catwalks/areas should be places where the T is KOS/Wanted/Rebelling (whatever what you want to call it). Its kinda turned into AUTOWANT WHAT HURA HURA DURR WHATS THIS WORD HUR DUR

They've been deleted. Let's keep it on the original topic.

 

[CtrlAltDelicious]

Anyway, the rules of JB state that guards are not allowed to camp/stay in a restricted area. So if you want to restrict those areas, then guard can't even be there and look at Ts. Assuming you are referring to catwalks and such? If not, maybe I misread.

I think we should just keep armory, vents, and secrets restricted areas.

I was in canyondam during the scenerio you described. Its up to the Warden and CT's to pay attention to these rebellers. If the T makes it to the catwalk where the CT's are then they should be KOS immediately for detouring and delaying.

Basically this is already a thing if Warden never ordered the T's to go there in the first place.

Personally speaking, I feel by making the indicated area or location (i.e Catwalks) restricted this could reduce the amount of baiting and give CTs a safe haven on free-days. However, baiting is a inevitable and is readily watched and taken care of at the discretion of our admins. In terms of making catwalks a restricted area, I'm not totally against it simply because it will allow for CTs to have a designated area that they can retreat to upon the death of the Warden; it could ultimately help regain control of the round. CTs must not be camp restricted areas; camping would be considered standing and blocking the entrance, exits or inside of the secret/vent. With that, I don't see being on the catwalks to be considered quote on quote camping; unless they are deliberately standing and/or blocking the entrances or exits of those catwalks. At the same time, I agree with the statement made by Jacko about leaving it the way it is and paying close attention to the whereabouts of prisoners. Typically, the location of the prisoners will be somewhere on the first tier or lower level; any prisoner(s) that aren't complying should be considered KOS or autowant for detouring or delaying.

These are all great points and suggestions thus far, Cheers.

~CtrlAltDelicious

 

[Corrupted]

Like C CtrlAltDelicious said it would make CT easier but there's no real NEED for it. Your mostly going to use this on a freeday and camp in a CT area and just get some kills. Ct's should be carefull whenever walking around stack and so on so forth.

 

[Rogue Sniper]

Like C CtrlAltDelicious said it would make CT easier but there's no real NEED for it. Your mostly going to use this on a freeday and camp in a CT area and just get some kills. Ct's should be carefull whenever walking around stack and so on so forth.

There is a need for it, I have laid out scenarios, I don't know why you continue telling me that they're not valid. CTs camping in CT areas is not camping ... they um, move around, that's not camping... I think the server would benefit vastly from this whether or not you agree, thats fine.

Like CAD says it gives CTs a vantage point to correctly identify a T shooting, it makes it easier to hit the T who is shooting and not people who are innocent, it gives a place for CTs to be safe for the 3-5 seconds between wardens when one is killed, it prevents baiting...

It literally, LITERALLY, fulfills many needs that are lacking right now. It prevents nothing for the Ts, they can still rebel, it doesn't hinder them. We had this rule and it worked fine for TEN years. I really don't know what the actual argument against having CT areas as autowants is.

 

[Corrupted]

There is a need for it, I have laid out scenarios, I don't know why you continue telling me that they're not valid. CTs camping in CT areas is not camping ... they um, move around, that's not camping... I think the server would benefit vastly from this whether or not you agree, thats fine.

You laid out A scenario at the start of the post. If the warden dies YOU take the warden as fast as you can and give a command, it should only take 5 seconds. Ct's should always be aware of stuff like who's around them, who has the gun, do they have a clear shot on the person with the gun, is there any T rushing him, is there anyone aiming at me, etc.