Server Class limits on Sniper for Hightower.

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If I could so toss in my 2 cents.

Sniper is one class that many often hate and/or love. It's never dawned upon me to say that ONLY sniper is unbalanced, but pyro as well. I do support class limits, but I don't think it should be limited to ONLY sniper.

With what Exor has explained, I see no reason as to add in a class limit of a max of 2 or 3.
To support myself, I guess I could enlighten you on a few important details that has come up in multiple other first person shooters.

"The steadier the aim, the better the shot," is a common mechanic in multiple games such as "PUBG", "Call of Duty", and even the game with the name "Sniper" in it: the "Sniper Elite" series. All of which have counter balances to stop players from simply just having your crosshair on the head of a player and left clicking. It takes a bit of time and patience, along with a mechanic for breathing to keeping the aim a bit steadier and easier to aim while still being a little bit of a challenge and chance.

Bullet drop off isn't a common mechanic but it is something that also balances the Sniper weapons/classes. Games such as "Battlefield" and "Call of Duty" again. Bullet drop off takes a bit of time for the player to get used to as well as letting the enemy know most of the time of where they can expect another sniper shot. This has more to do with the physics of the game and the skill of the player knowing how the bullet will handle in the air.

One last subject that I am going to discuss is "No movement, no problem." This has more to do with how much the player is moving in relation to where they're aiming. If a sniper is moving around sporadically, the bullet might not hit their intended target. Valve has implemented this into CS:GO as to deter "mobile snipers" and to keep them a bit more in one place or to aim down one hallway and not try to force the sniper to push forward in a way that's unexpected.

Overall, sniper not only needs improvements and changes, he needs a few redo's on what his whole act is. With the sniper able to almost literally be a "point and click adventure" and able to shut down any class that stands in his way with multiple annoying gimmicks, it's safe to say that a class limit on sniper is perfectly just until the Team Fortress 2 development team actually does do something to this overwhelmingly powerful class.

TL;DR: Class limits or bust
 
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went hunting for exor sat in hightower for 30mins and got 100 headshots he sat in spec the whole time i will continue hunting
 
joshcash said:
went hunting for exor sat in hightower for 30mins and got 100 headshots he sat in spec the whole time i will continue hunting
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Someone made a suggestion on the forums I don't like, better be toxic and try to ruin his fun.
 
I feel that having a class limit on sniper would be beneficial to the Hightower server from personal experience. Whenever there are more than two competent snipers on the same team, the entire map becomes locked down by them. This typically leads to a decrease in the server population because frustrated players will leave the server when they realize that any efforts to counter the enemy snipers are useless. This is usually a daily occurrence because of the type of players that join the server. One might argue that implementing a class limit on sniper is an insult to the amount of time and effort that snipers put into mastering their class, but the high skill floor for sniper doesn't change the fact that sniper is a fundamentally overpowered class.
 
joshcash said:
went hunting for exor sat in hightower for 30mins and got 100 headshots he sat in spec the whole time i will continue hunting
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Lord Exor said:
Someone made a suggestion on the forums I don't like, better be toxic and try to ruin his fun.
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Alright, play nice boys. :)

joshcash = old EGO sniper god that used to play for our competitive team back when we won UGC gold that one time (if I recall... I think he was on the team with Cael and VP?)
Lord Exor = has put 270+ DAYS into pG Hightower, is mega competitive and just wants the server to remain healthy and populated

Y'all both clearly excel at what you do, jelly of both. Embrace the chill.

Legosnut said:
I feel that having a class limit on sniper would be beneficial to the Hightower server from personal experience. Whenever there are more than two competent snipers on the same team, the entire map becomes locked down by them. This typically leads to a decrease in the server population because frustrated players will leave the server when they realize that any efforts to counter the enemy snipers are useless. This is usually a daily occurrence because of the type of players that join the server. One might argue that implementing a class limit on sniper is an insult to the amount of time and effort that snipers put into mastering their class, but the high skill floor for sniper doesn't change the fact that sniper is a fundamentally overpowered class.
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So you're recommending a class limit for snipers of 2? On a full 32-pop server you're proposing limiting the maximum percentage of snipers to 12.5%? In a game where there are 9 classes (11% distribution)? That's my problem - this just seems a bit extreme when there are genuine class counters to the Sniper. Glass cannons should be powerful. They can get dropped if they are focused by the right classes.

I think that an inability for players to play the class they want to will also lead to server problems. DoD:S has this exact problem, where newer players get harassed and made to feel guilty for picking up a class that has a class limit. Why create this problem? If issues can't be solved through reasonable gameplay, I get that. Change it at that point. But snipers, high skillcap as they are, can be killed just like everyone else.

Believe me, I mained medic in several seasons of UGC HL/6's. I despise snipers. But if you put the 1000 hours in to be one of the best, why shouldn't you be allowed to come play on our server where other class mains can go up against you? Why discriminate based on class, when there are answers to sniper within normal gameplay?
 
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I completely disagree with the suggestion with have a cap on snipers on either team. It is unfair to those who put in the hours, and when they can’t use their main class it would hurt the server pop in my opinion.
 
I used to have to deal with Mister36's and ROFLcoppter's snipping back in my day. I picked up how to play a counter class or at the very least have gotten creative in making sure I get my revenge and kills.
 
Maserati said:
I used to have to deal with Mister36's and ROFLcoppter's snipping back in my day. I picked up how to play a counter class or at the very least have gotten creative in making sure I get my revenge and kills.
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Yeah basically this. Nothings more fun that outsmarting snipers as a pyro and coming up behind with a backburner. Seriously, try it out.
 
Sniper does not have guaranteed counterplay, and everything suggested is still equivalent to trying to survive a bear attack. This is why he's so controversial in the TF2 community, in addition to the fact that dying to an opponent you aren't interacting with is boring and unenjoyable. It isn't the same as, say, a Heavy; Heavy can be 100% countered by Snipers, Demomen, weapons with baked knockback such as the Force-a-Nature or Scorch Shot, and cheesy overtuned weapons like the Mad Milk and Direct Hit. Sniper, meanwhile, has answers to everything that has been suggested in this thread. Pyro ambush? Dangershield. Spy? Razorback or awareness. Sniper's only limiting factor is his niche as a raw killer that's incapable of pursuing or holding objectives, which doesn't come into play on a server where there are none.

I think it's safe to assume that the majority of Hightower regulars desire for a cap on Sniper. You can take the pulse of the community by simply querying "Sniper" in gameME's chat history; almost every day you'll find people discontented. If you absolutely insist on having a poll conducted on this site, it should be limited to people that actively play on the server.
 
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Lord Exor said:
Sniper does not have guaranteed counterplay, and everything suggested is still equivalent to trying to survive a bear attack. This is why he's so controversial in the TF2 community, in addition to the fact that dying to an opponent you aren't interacting with is boring and unenjoyable. It isn't the same as, say, a Heavy; Heavy can be 100% countered by Snipers, Demomen, weapons with baked knockback such as the Force-a-Nature or Scorch Shot, and cheesy overtuned weapons like the Mad Milk and Direct Hit. Sniper, meanwhile, has answers to everything that has been suggested in this thread. Pyro ambush? Dangershield. Spy? Razorback or awareness. Sniper's only limiting factor is his niche as a raw killer that's incapable of pursuing or holding objectives, which doesn't come into play on a server where there are none.

I think it's safe to assume that the majority of Hightower regulars desire for a cap on Sniper. You can take the pulse of the community by simply querying "Sniper" in gameME's chat history; almost every day you'll find people discontented. If you absolutely insist on having a poll conducted on this site, it should be limited to people that actively play on the server.
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Just don't suck and die to snipers. View attachment 20769
 
Lord Exor said:
I think it's safe to assume that the majority of Hightower regulars desire for a cap on Sniper. You can take the pulse of the community by simply querying "Sniper" in gameME's chat history; almost every day you'll find people discontented. If you absolutely insist on having a poll conducted on this site, it should be limited to people that actively play on the server.
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I only found people complaining once in the last 5 days when I searched, around the time you were on the server, leading me to believe you went in and used admin chat or voice chat to ask what people thought, because suddenly out of nowhere people start saying "Oh yes i support class limits on snipers" all in the same block. So... not exactly the best look dude.
 
Alright, with several things needing to be investigated by LE, I think it's time to close this thread.

TF2 Leadership is not going to move on a class limit without an overwhelming majority of support on this matter. The method of establishing this will be determined at a later date. TF2's been out for 7 thousand years, and Hightower is still supremely popular. I am sure it can wait a few weeks.

In the meantime, continue to play on our Hightower server and giving feedback in other avenues. Any repostings of this thread or similar topics will be immediately removed.

Thanks,
-Minty
 
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