Allow all CTs to use !count in Jailbreak.

Spencer

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!count allows Warden to count how many Ts are in the area, and it's a lifesaver since this server is packed daily.
A lot of the time, I'll hear a "can I get a count?" or "how many are in stack?" Why not let all CTs be able to use !count themselves?
The opposing argument would be that it would be overpowered, but that isn't the case at all.
Count is not so much of an advantage than it is convenience.
I bet we'd get less chat spam and fewer miscalculated free kills.
 
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Not only would it be convenient, but some wardens are a bit lazy or don't know the command to count Ts on screen, choosing to not use it at all. If CTs were able to count Ts on screen it can clear confusion whether or not there are active rebellers, and could be used in other situations to help CTs pursue the round.
 
I feel that it wouldn't be fair for cts to pursue rebellers so fast, or mess up count and pursue when no one is missing.
 
I remember someone making a post changing how often warden could actually use !count. I fully believe it should be limited to just warden, giving it to all CT's makes it even more anti-rebel than it already is.

Talking to people it makes sense to step back !count to either be on a cooldown or a limited amount of uses. Giving it to everyone seems like a not good Idea.
 
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Not only would it be convenient, but some wardens are a bit lazy or don't know the command to count Ts on screen, choosing to not use it at all. If CTs were able to count Ts on screen it can clear confusion whether or not there are active rebellers, and could be used in other situations to help CTs pursue the round.
That's a good point. Too many rounds end up with one marker lives because CTs are spending so much time not playing games, trying to find out how many are in stack. It's more fun for everyone, including rebellers when the round is being pursued with little speed bumps.

I remember someone making a post changing how often warden could actually use !count. I fully believe it should be limited to just warden, giving it to all CT's makes it even more anti-rebel than it already is.

Talking to people it makes sense to step back !count to either be on a cooldown or a limited amount of uses. Giving it to everyone seems like a not good Idea.
I'd like to hear from you why it wouldn't be a good idea.
 
I feel that it wouldn't be fair for cts to pursue rebellers so fast, or mess up count and pursue when no one is missing.

It's less about CTs pursuing rebellers and more about letting competent CTs correct wardens who are either not using !count or using it incorrectly. Another thing is that CTs could only inform the warden of the current count of Ts in the stack, instead of a CT realizing that one T is missing and instantly start pursuing the rebeller without the warden's permission. There have been many times when I have been a guard and the warden says, "assuming we have X amount in stack..." Instead of taking a second to type in a very useful command that prevents total T take-over. But, I do agree with TheLegend27 for it to be tested before fully implemented into the game.
 
I think this would be good in theory, but some people would just abuse it and say they "counted" and then immediately pursue vents/rebellers.

Another thing is that CTs could only inform the warden of the current count of Ts in the stack, instead of a CT realizing that one T is missing and instantly start pursuing the rebeller without the warden's permission.

Again, could be good in theory but whats the point of another CT counting if they can only inform warden. If the warden isn't counting themselves they aren't going to care what another CT says.

Another problem I see with any CT being able to use count is that many times CTs are not in a position to count stack effectively. What I mean is usually warden is fairly close to stack/directly infront of them in some capacity, so they can easily and clearly count stack and not miss people. Other CTs USUALLY hang further back and at other angles, so they could easily miscount. It may encourage more baiting as well, as CTs will want to get closer to stack to count.
 
Yea, I agree with CT here.

There'd be a lot of holes in this plan.

As a CT, I find myself not always knowing 100% exactly where the Ts should be. It would be extremely easy for a CT to forget about an ST or someone going to get health, and then be missing from the stack for the entire round. Additionally, CTs don't always have the central view the warden has.

I also see this being pretty OP when the server is close to full. As warden, I find myself, when not in a game, counting the stack every minute or so. With 13 CTs, there would logically be someone counting the stack every 5 or so seconds. That's a little too much and would make rebelling much harder.

Lastly, even though JailBreak has recently strayed away from RolePlay, I'd still like to see some aspect. The warden should be the only one that is responsible for all the prisoners, and should be the only one able to know if one has dipped.

Overall, I think it should stay as it is.
 
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I'd like to hear from you why it wouldn't be a good idea.

It is anti-rebel, which I feel the server is already very.

Lastly, even though JailBreak has recently strayed away from Role Play, I'd still like to see some aspect. The warden should be the only one that is responsible for all the prisoners, and should be the only one able to know if one has dipped.

Only the warden should be able to give orders to pursue, as in prison guards wouldn't just wander off without orders to do so.

I think this would be good in theory, but some people would just abuse it and say they "counted" and then immediately pursue vents/rebellers.

It also opens up this loophole.
 
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-1 and then some, Let's be real, CT's in their current environment do not need any extra help; and in my experience, it's harder than one thinks to rebel without notice. Keep in mind T's have two goals, and those are the purpose of the gamemode. T's need to either rebel, or go through the CT's games to get to LR. T's rebelling is a very core feature of the gamemode. They are expected to do one or the other. As it stands, in most cases CT's have no problem countering rebellers, and really only face difficulty on select maps.

Count is not so much of an advantage than it is convenience.
I bet we'd get less chat spam and fewer miscalculated free kills.

Make no such mistake, it IS an advantage, Because if a T DOES MANAGE to sneak away without getting spotted, that T now is at the mercy of this command which reveals that the jig is up before they even do anything. This command already when used properly screws over the crafty T who managed to get away unseen. Without this command, these sneaky T's would stay sneaky more often than not. As such that intelligence that someone's escaped without any effort other than typing a command or even pressing a single button, is in itself advantageous.

Giving this to all CT's would reduce rebelling down a MAJOR percentage, to the point of why even try in the first place, as the only other way to rebel would be to get lucky and stab a CT. Not very practical most of the time. In essence, it would all but get rid of such a core part of the gamemode.

This does nothing but stack the favor even further in the CT's favor; whom of which are armed, against generically unarmed T's.

Further; there is a reason why there is a warden anyways. Imagine if EVERY CT was a warden. It would be so chaotic, everyone giving orders to everyone, countermanding and superseding eachother. The warden is there to provide order and direction to everyone playing. The tools they have are for that purpose only, if everyone had them imagine the amount of chaos. Random CT's giving ST to rebellers, spamming special rounds, talking over everyone, Having extra armor and hp... CT's baiting other CTs by taking T's past each other without knowing. I'm sure people could find all sorts of devious ideas if everyone had every command. But; I digress, as that is not what your asking.

However, the slope is slippery. And frankly, even if you don't agree or think it would be overpowering, Already people have suggested loopholes and exploits. What if a CT just bound this and just constantly spammed it?

I can't fathom any case that makes all the potential issues that this creates worth it.
Micspam? We have admins around who can deal with people spamming asks for counts, and while it isn't always perfect, that is what we volunteer for; To help.
If you think you can find a scenario, any scenario that can credit your suggestion and argument(or position, not as in verbal battle/fight); then maybe this has more ground to stand on.
 
Back in my day we had to unstack, line the T's up and manually count them

Back in your day? What are you, an old man? :)

On another note, imagine how long it would take to play a game if wardens still had to do this!
 
On another note, imagine how long it would take to play a game if wardens still had to do this!
Yeah but this means wardens need to learn the skill of unstacking the prisoners in a calm fashion, physically counting them, and then doing that within a quick time frame so the round isn’t extended to oblivion. Wardens that learn this skill will learn many others, which in my opinion will make for better guards and wardens.
 
Yeah but this means wardens need to learn the skill of unstacking the prisoners in a calm fashion, physically counting them, and then doing that within a quick time frame so the round isn’t extended to oblivion. Wardens that learn this skill will learn many others, which in my opinion will make for better guards and wardens.
I do agree, however, this would be a toxic warden's dream. Just gives them all the more reason to give a command like "unstack in my blue marker face south afk freeze" and then kill half the Ts before even leaving main cells. The rule that the warden must not keep Ts in main cells after 2 minutes have passed would need to be more heavily enforced if this was the case.
 
Jailbreak is already CT sided af, adding more of these rules/plugins will literally ruin jailbreak. Wardens are already toxic, there's literally not ONE round where a warden doesn't use afk freeze. If CT's can use !count then there isn't going to be any rebelers. When pg was a thing there was no dumb CT sided rules/plugins, but as time went on there was more slower wardens and dogshit ct's, so more ct sided shit had to come in. At one point it's going to go as far as CT's being able to literally sit inside the secrets to wait for T's to come in.
 

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