Enginner noob?
- Thread starter Dooda
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I would agree with the part abou the sentry being an aimbot. I would not agree with the noob part.
I usually ignore trolls that say stuff like that. In every game you will find people that claim "x" item you use is a "noob" gun when you kill them with it.
In CoD its a noob cannon (Grenade launcher).
In CS:S its the autoshotgun, or AWP, or whatever else.
Some weapons/classes are easier to use/play and so they will get this moniker, but you will find that a skilled player using these tools/classes is a valuable asset to the team.
There is a larger complaint bout Engies and their ability to pad their stats by building/destroying or teleporting a lot. Since I could care less about stats that never bothered me personally.
Nuedar
I usually ignore trolls that say stuff like that. In every game you will find people that claim "x" item you use is a "noob" gun when you kill them with it.
In CoD its a noob cannon (Grenade launcher).
In CS:S its the autoshotgun, or AWP, or whatever else.
Some weapons/classes are easier to use/play and so they will get this moniker, but you will find that a skilled player using these tools/classes is a valuable asset to the team.
There is a larger complaint bout Engies and their ability to pad their stats by building/destroying or teleporting a lot. Since I could care less about stats that never bothered me personally.
Nuedar
Nuedar pretty much hit the nail on the head. As a hardcore engi, I'll take it one step further by just saying that any good team, offense or defense, should have at least one engineer.
No, that doesn't mean you need one to win. But, for instance, my teleporter record is something like 48 teleports in one life. I estimated the teleporter saved you about 20 seconds of running. That's 960 seconds, or 16 entire minutes, of running. 16 minutes of play time saved throughout the team with my teleporter, in one life . Also dispensers are invaluable aids, especially in the right spot. They can provide useful healing where there are no medpacks, and turn a heavy into a level 2 turret. And then there's the turrets. No need to really explain what they're capable of.
As far as the difference between engineers and good engineers, I think it comes down to motivation. If you're lazy, wanna build your stuff once and forget about it, you're probably not too good. You'll have to constantly rebuild after destructions, or after your team caps a point and needs to move up. I'll build a teleporter on offense that only really saves about 5-10 seconds of running, just to get it up and doing something useful. Then I'll move it up little by little in between uses to make sure it's helping as much as possible. Also, I'll try never to build it too close to the frontlines, to save from spies and pushes from the defense...a teleporter that needs to be rebuilt every 2 minutes isn't very useful.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Post any more questions you may have about Engi, I'd love to help you out more.
No, that doesn't mean you need one to win. But, for instance, my teleporter record is something like 48 teleports in one life. I estimated the teleporter saved you about 20 seconds of running. That's 960 seconds, or 16 entire minutes, of running. 16 minutes of play time saved throughout the team with my teleporter, in one life . Also dispensers are invaluable aids, especially in the right spot. They can provide useful healing where there are no medpacks, and turn a heavy into a level 2 turret. And then there's the turrets. No need to really explain what they're capable of.
As far as the difference between engineers and good engineers, I think it comes down to motivation. If you're lazy, wanna build your stuff once and forget about it, you're probably not too good. You'll have to constantly rebuild after destructions, or after your team caps a point and needs to move up. I'll build a teleporter on offense that only really saves about 5-10 seconds of running, just to get it up and doing something useful. Then I'll move it up little by little in between uses to make sure it's helping as much as possible. Also, I'll try never to build it too close to the frontlines, to save from spies and pushes from the defense...a teleporter that needs to be rebuilt every 2 minutes isn't very useful.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Post any more questions you may have about Engi, I'd love to help you out more.
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Engineers are very different from other classes. It makes TF2 more like a strategy game than FPS. It is an easy class to get into just like most other classes in the game, and I think that was one of the best things about this game, btw. However, easy to jump into the game with the class does not mean, the class is easy to master. I think it is hard to separate really good from good unless you put enough time into the class yourself. Most of the time, people call engineer class noob because they don't understand the class well enough.
Any ways, for the last time, building/destroying your own buildings WILL NOT get you a point, and no points for teleport use either as far as HLStats are concerned.
Any ways, for the last time, building/destroying your own buildings WILL NOT get you a point, and no points for teleport use either as far as HLStats are concerned.
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I will admit that I played engineer almost exclusively for the first couple of weeks after I bought TF2, but I'm still not sure it's considered a noob class. I used to play TFC back in college and so have a firm grasp of what the engineer class is able to do. So for me, playing engineer was a great way to be effective for my team while still learning the nuances of the game and getting used to the first multiplayer FPS I'd played in, oh, 5 years.
That said, I think the engineer IS a great class for noobs for that same reason. Anybody can be at least marginally effective once they learn to build and upgrade their sentry. They can then run around and learn the game while their sentry does the work. I also like medic for a new player since it's great for learning the maps. Just latch on to another player -- preferably a good one -- and follow him around to learn where to go in the map.
These days I mostly play soldier, which a lot of people also claim is a noob class, but soldier, like any other class, can be very effective once learned. He can be extremely versatile once you learn his strengths and his weaknesses and how to predict where people will be so you can lead them with your rockets.
Really, when you think about it a lot of the classes can be called a noob class for one reason or another.
That said, I think the engineer IS a great class for noobs for that same reason. Anybody can be at least marginally effective once they learn to build and upgrade their sentry. They can then run around and learn the game while their sentry does the work. I also like medic for a new player since it's great for learning the maps. Just latch on to another player -- preferably a good one -- and follow him around to learn where to go in the map.
These days I mostly play soldier, which a lot of people also claim is a noob class, but soldier, like any other class, can be very effective once learned. He can be extremely versatile once you learn his strengths and his weaknesses and how to predict where people will be so you can lead them with your rockets.
Really, when you think about it a lot of the classes can be called a noob class for one reason or another.
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Sentry = aimbot?
Pfft... you can't circle-strafe someone with an aimbot NEARLY as well as you can a sentry. Besides, it's a mechanical construct, with obvious electronics for targeting. Probably an IR laser or IFF and a motion sensor
But seriously... RESPAWN has a great point with newbies playing engie. They build their stuff and upgrade it, then they can go learn the map, or even just how the game works. I played soldier first, but was an engie for a long time. On those days when patience is one of my virtues, I'll go engie and defend the intel. Aside from that, I've got to go kill something, so suicide pyro or combat medic are preferred.
Pfft... you can't circle-strafe someone with an aimbot NEARLY as well as you can a sentry. Besides, it's a mechanical construct, with obvious electronics for targeting. Probably an IR laser or IFF and a motion sensor
But seriously... RESPAWN has a great point with newbies playing engie. They build their stuff and upgrade it, then they can go learn the map, or even just how the game works. I played soldier first, but was an engie for a long time. On those days when patience is one of my virtues, I'll go engie and defend the intel. Aside from that, I've got to go kill something, so suicide pyro or combat medic are preferred.
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Personally i think that engies can really ruin games...simply because 5 engies in a room wiht 5 sentries in the last ca point is an easy stalemate...and is a pain in the ass for any other class exept for spy who it doesnt target when disguised
Im not TRYING to say that engineer is a noob class, just that they ruin the fun for me a lot in games with stalemates and instant killing me when i go past one by accident...although after i know where a sentry is its easy to avoid or destroy depending on your class.
Im not TRYING to say that engineer is a noob class, just that they ruin the fun for me a lot in games with stalemates and instant killing me when i go past one by accident...although after i know where a sentry is its easy to avoid or destroy depending on your class.
Well, my opinion is yes, any nut can put up a sentry. but can they:
1. Keep the sentry up?
2. Place it in a good location?
3. Provide a dispenser in strategic locations?
4. Patrol the area around the sentry using their main weapons?
There is a bit more to engineer than meets the eye. Just sitting with your sentry while holding the fire button is just boring entirely, and I don't suggest it unless an enemy is approaching. Engineer is my most played class (Almost 300hrs.), and I've learned maps and the best locations for the SG's to go up.
If one does not like multiple sentries in one room, counter it with multiple uber demos. That'll teach them to hold their defense like that.
1. Keep the sentry up?
2. Place it in a good location?
3. Provide a dispenser in strategic locations?
4. Patrol the area around the sentry using their main weapons?
There is a bit more to engineer than meets the eye. Just sitting with your sentry while holding the fire button is just boring entirely, and I don't suggest it unless an enemy is approaching. Engineer is my most played class (Almost 300hrs.), and I've learned maps and the best locations for the SG's to go up.
If one does not like multiple sentries in one room, counter it with multiple uber demos. That'll teach them to hold their defense like that.
Everyone here pretty much brought up great points. Knowing where to place your buildings, how to keep them up, help other engineers do the same, etc., are all very important things that make a good engineer.
As for 5 sentries on the last point, yeah, it can make for a stalemate...but not one that can't be broken by an uber-demo or two, especially if the team actually has the cojones to follow them out and fight (and -gasp- maybe die). There are few situations in TF2 that couldn't be overcome by good solid teamwork. Yeah, sometimes that's asking alot in a PUB. But, what can you do, other than your best.
As for 5 sentries on the last point, yeah, it can make for a stalemate...but not one that can't be broken by an uber-demo or two, especially if the team actually has the cojones to follow them out and fight (and -gasp- maybe die). There are few situations in TF2 that couldn't be overcome by good solid teamwork. Yeah, sometimes that's asking alot in a PUB. But, what can you do, other than your best.
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A great engie has many skills that people who don't play the class don't realize. A great engie is a master at shotgun and wrench combat. Also, the decision must always be made whether to charge the attacker with shotgun+sentry fire or sit back and repair. An obvious skill is placement of structures. The two most under-rated skills are SPEED AND TEAMWORK WITH OTHER ENGIES!!!!!!
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I knew someone was going to say that, but thats not true. Ubered peole get pushed back by sentries so they cant get into the room where all the sentries are for example a previous ver of blackmesa the doors were too narrow an even if you uber you aint getting in
Also, people saying engie needs lots of skill just have big egos.Anyone sayign any class needs skill in TF2 just has a big ego in my eyes. It just takes common sense and a bit of practise.
Knowing when to repair/attack whatever nothing to do with skill just common sense.
Knowing where to place sentries and dispensers not skill just common sense, unless the map is big then it might take you one or two rounds to see where all the sentry points are.
Apologies if offended anyone i just hate it when people use the word skill in sentences in games, its just practise and common sense....
Yes, but skill can easily be interchangable with practice. I really don't expect a lot of people who play FPS to call it "practice". Skill can also be interchangable with luck, as far as TF2 goes with crits. There's a difference between one engineer holding a point and five engineers doing the same thing.
Once again, Engineer is not only about the darn sentry gun. Like every other class, you are expected to use your other weapons/resources in combat.
Ubered people also get pushed back by stickies and rockets, but I guarantee no one would ever make a complaint about the three demos and two soldiers who were assisting the five engineers when trying to cap the last point unless they are killed by them.
My $0.02
Once again, Engineer is not only about the darn sentry gun. Like every other class, you are expected to use your other weapons/resources in combat.
Ubered people also get pushed back by stickies and rockets, but I guarantee no one would ever make a complaint about the three demos and two soldiers who were assisting the five engineers when trying to cap the last point unless they are killed by them.
My $0.02
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Well, my opinion is yes, any nut can put up a sentry. but can they:
1. Keep the sentry up?
2. Place it in a good location?
3. Provide a dispenser in strategic locations?
4. Patrol the area around the sentry using their main weapons?
There is a bit more to engineer than meets the eye. Just sitting with your sentry while holding the fire button is just boring entirely, and I don't suggest it unless an enemy is approaching. Engineer is my most played class (Almost 300hrs.), and I've learned maps and the best locations for the SG's to go up.
If one does not like multiple sentries in one room, counter it with multiple uber demos. That'll teach them to hold their defense like that.
What Booster said. Well, everything except the 300 hours part. 300 HOURS?!
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Anybody calling player a noob is a form of disrespect toward the player.
If it happens in game, make sure to report the player to an admin.
If it happens outside of game, there is no reason to take it personally. You can't expect and engie to go on the front line, they have to use strategy.
same thing for all class really, some people dont like snipers, some dont like heavies... because all 9 classes require different ways of playing don't mean they are no skill classes!
* also a note about common sense:
Common sense and being skilled at something are not the same. Being skilled means you're better than the average guy who uses common sense. Knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things.
If clicking a button isn't considered skills for some, that's fine with me. But in a gaming world, clicking a button properly and knowing how and when to move and not move is more than just common sense. It comes with practice yes, but some can practice forever and still can't beat other players.
If it happens in game, make sure to report the player to an admin.
If it happens outside of game, there is no reason to take it personally. You can't expect and engie to go on the front line, they have to use strategy.
same thing for all class really, some people dont like snipers, some dont like heavies... because all 9 classes require different ways of playing don't mean they are no skill classes!
* also a note about common sense:
Common sense and being skilled at something are not the same. Being skilled means you're better than the average guy who uses common sense. Knowing what to do and actually doing it are two different things.
If clicking a button isn't considered skills for some, that's fine with me. But in a gaming world, clicking a button properly and knowing how and when to move and not move is more than just common sense. It comes with practice yes, but some can practice forever and still can't beat other players.
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back to the common sense and practice thing ... practice just begets skill... thats what practice builds. the more practice the more skill ...
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I usually play alot of FPS games, eg my most played game shown on xfire ever is SF which is a FPS i stoppe dplaying eons ago. And in them it really irritates me people saying 'skill' in sentences so damb much lol. If someone kills someone and says its skill then they are being disrespectful to that player.
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How can an engi be a noob for using what he is supposed to use? Does that mean a sniper is a noob for using there sniper? A spy a noob for backstabing? A pyro a noob for ignighting someone? How can you say that someone is a noob for using there weapon? If your smart you can destroy the senetry without getting attacked. If you keep on getting killed by the same senetry doesn't that make you the noob for not knowing how to get past it?
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Well, my opinion is yes, any nut can put up a sentry. but can they:
1. Keep the sentry up?
2. Place it in a good location?
3. Provide a dispenser in strategic locations?
4. Patrol the area around the sentry using their main weapons?
There is a bit more to engineer than meets the eye. Just sitting with your sentry while holding the fire button is just boring entirely, and I don't suggest it unless an enemy is approaching. Engineer is my most played class (Almost 300hrs.), and I've learned maps and the best locations for the SG's to go up.
If one does not like multiple sentries in one room, counter it with multiple uber demos. That'll teach them to hold their defense like that.
I respectfully disagree other than #3. #3 is one of the key reasons to separate good from great.
Following opinion is purely my own, and it is very likely it is true only in my head. 1. I think it is not crucial to keep the sentry up under all circumstance. I feel it is more important when you should attempt to save the sg or know when to abandon. For example, if you see two (one crit + one normal) plus sticky bombs near the building, only thing you can do is try to knock the grenades off with your guns. Or you can even blow it up yourself, so you can get a head start building it on a new location. 2. There are many good locations to place your buildings, but doing at the same place all the time reduce its effectiveness. Everybody has their favorite spots, but try a new locations sometimes. As average player base get better and better everyday, there are more people who know how to destroy the sentry guns. In my opinion, if the enemy expect the sentry location even before the game starts, the sg will not be as effective as it could be. This will provide another effect, however. It is good to make the enemy pose/hesitate before they turn the corner. Your teammate can use it to their advantage. An engi also can build his sg using the opponents psychology. 4. I don't personally do this. I think you need to stay within the range, so if something happened you can get back to the buildings. You need to know how much time you have before that sapper will destroy your buildings. I'd rather look for another engineer who needs help.
I personaly don't think that engis are noobs because the aimbot SG's. There are too much ways to outsmart the SG and , eventually, destroy it.
If you hear someone screaming that engi is a noob class - make a little mental note - that's a noob screaming
If you hear someone screaming that engi is a noob class - make a little mental note - that's a noob screaming
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