4/2/21 DOB Press Release

D3FaulT

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San_Andreas_State_Seal.png



State of San Andreas
Department of Buildings


Dear citizens of the greater San Andreas area,

Earlier today the State Supreme Court ruled in favor of the "
Public Information Act" in an 8-0 Majority. With this new law, all private and publicly owned property currently operating in the State of San Andreas will now be public information to active Law Enforcement and members of the Department of Justice. This means if you are a property owner your name and address will be publicly available to those individuals. They must still follow proper law procedures to execute raids, warrants, etc. This law is in effect as of now. If you have any questions, feel free to direct them to the government through official lines of communication.
 
Privacy is an important aspect of real estate transactions.. this will only encourage people to conceal the real owners of property and complicate tax collection and mortgage collection for D8 agents!
 
They are saying its public information to the law enforcement, not public to the city so they can view who owns the properties rather than go to me to ask who lives in it for raids ect
 
OOC:

I want to comment on this recent change to answer some questions.

For starters, property ownership is typically public record. (IRL) Of course, we do not want to allow every single civilians to know your address. This could cause immense stress. The police and the DOJ need this information in relation to crimes that require the execution of a search warrant or apprehension of an individual.

I think it's important for everyone, (both criminals and police) to be very much aware that you always need to follow the proper procedures to acquire a search warrant with the appropriate probable cause.

Police can not request a search warrant for things such as someone who was caught speeding, reckless driving, etc.

Police need to have probable cause to search a residence and a specific goal on what they are looking for. This is all outlined and documented in the search warrant. If they conduct a proper investigation and they have the evidence that suggests you are moving guns out of a warehouse, they could request a search warrant through the Department of Justice with the appropriate evidence.

Police are required to follow very strict procedures and clear outlined guidelines. All warrants go through a Judge. Police can not enter your residence without a signed warrant from the DOJ.

This is not a drastic change, police were always capable of getting a subpoena for a property. The only difference now being they no longer need the subpoena. (The DOJ are responsible for these). A Judge would only sign a subpoena with reasonable evidence, just as they would only sign a warrant with reasonable evidence.

Police cannot search your residence for petty crimes that don't involve the need to see your home. If they entered any residence without the appropriate warrant, they would be charged and most likely terminated.

I hope this answers some questions and subsides some concerns, my door is always opened.

Oblixion
 
OOC:

I want to comment on this recent change to answer some questions.

For starters, property ownership is typically public record. (IRL) Of course, we do not want to allow every single civilians to know your address. This could cause immense stress. The police and the DOJ need this information in relation to crimes that require the execution of a search warrant or apprehension of an individual.

I think it's important for everyone, (both criminals and police) to be very much aware that you always need to follow the proper procedures to acquire a search warrant with the appropriate probable cause.

Police can not request a search warrant for things such as someone who was caught speeding, reckless driving, etc.

Police need to have probable cause to search a residence and a specific goal on what they are looking for. This is all outlined and documented in the search warrant. If they conduct a proper investigation and they have the evidence that suggests you are moving guns out of a warehouse, they could request a search warrant through the Department of Justice with the appropriate evidence.

Police are required to follow very strict procedures and clear outlined guidelines. All warrants go through a Judge. Police can not enter your residence without a signed warrant from the DOJ.

This is not a drastic change, police were always capable of getting a subpoena for a property. The only difference now being they no longer need the subpoena. (The DOJ are responsible for these). A Judge would only sign a subpoena with reasonable evidence, just as they would only sign a warrant with reasonable evidence.

Police cannot search your residence for petty crimes that don't involve the need to see your home. If they entered any residence without the appropriate warrant, they would be charged and most likely terminated.

I hope this answers some questions and subsides some concerns, my door is always opened.

Oblixion
You see, the issue is now that all of the PD has access to see where I live, they can raid my properties as they please. How am I to know if it was raided legally or illegally as there's no way to see damage on my door or check my cameras in my properties. No one is able to tell me who or when my place was entered.

If I've had PD members give me PD weapons and watch me shoot illegal weapons without a care in the world and face no repercussions, whos to say they wont raid me and get away Scott free too

I understand there are things PD needs or needs access to in order to help with RP and what not, but this 100% is not one of them.

Previously when needed, PD would ask James(Deaforb) for postals of peoples properties and he would happy provide while keeping IC and ensuring things were done legit, he acted as some type of middle man, now that option has been removed.

Things should be done to make the server run and fair to all types of RPers, cops and crims alike, not a 70-30 split in favor of PD.

*Side note, I would much rather every crim on the server know my addresses over the cops*
 
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You see, the issue is now that all of the PD has access to see where I live, they can raid my properties as they please. How am I to know if it was raided legally or illegally as there's no way to see damage on my door or check my cameras in my properties. No one is able to tell me who or when my place was entered.
You're issued a search warrant and receipt upon search of a property. Otherwise, it may be ruled as an unlawful search and you'd find yourself in quite a sum of money if you won in court.

If I've had PD members give me PD weapons and watch me shoot illegal weapons without a care in the world and face no repercussions, whos to say they wont raid me and get away Scott free too

That's selective enforcement. You're still breaking the law though. It takes one single hard-ass cop to roll up to you and see it and lug your ass off to jail. This is no different that life unfortunately.

Previously when needed, PD would ask James(Deaforb) for postals of peoples properties and he would happy provide while keeping IC and ensuring things were done legit, he acted as some type of middle man, now that option has been removed.

Addresses are public record (this is speaking in life). It's so public you can literally search on google and find information on people. Typically you'd need to go to your city or town to reference these pieces of details...but instead with the surge of the internet you can simply just google reference. I'd also remind you that your home address is in fact on your DMV issued drivers license as well. None of this is private and never has been. It's been identified that a private entity has restricted access (purposefully OR NOT) to public records that should be readily obtainable.

Things should be done to make the server run and fair to all types of RPers, cops and crims alike, not a 70-30 split in favor of PD.

The "PD GETS EVERYTHING" argument is so exhausting and basically gaslighting. The police department is at a significant disadvantage in nearly every category. We cant break the law. We cant operate outside of our department mandated SOPs. We cant act in a sense of corruption. We can barely lie without significant ramifications. Please do not exhaust me any further with the 70-30 split in favor of PD because its absolute bull and gaslights.

Let me be real with you here.

At the end of the day, if you're storing mass amounts of weapons, drugs, money and other illegal materials IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL HOME you are not the "smart" criminal you may make yourself out to be. There's definitely criminals in the server that have found ways to operate around this where they wont be tied to any of their criminal behaviors. It may be time to stop stomping feet and adapt quick on your feet to be a true crime mastermind. Otherwise...it's only a matter of time till you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and get slammed by the law.
 
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You're issued a search warrant and receipt upon search of a property. Otherwise, it may be ruled as an unlawful search and you'd find yourself in quite a sum of money if you won in court.

If I've had PD members give me PD weapons and watch me shoot illegal weapons without a care in the world and face no repercussions, whos to say they wont raid me and get away Scott free too

That's selective enforcement. You're still breaking the law though. It takes one single hard-ass cop to roll up to you and see it and lug your ass off to jail. This is no different that life unfortunately.

Previously when needed, PD would ask James(Deaforb) for postals of peoples properties and he would happy provide while keeping IC and ensuring things were done legit, he acted as some type of middle man, now that option has been removed.

Addresses are public record (this is speaking in life). It's so public you can literally search on google and find information on people. Typically you'd need to go to your city or town to reference these pieces of details...but instead with the surge of the internet you can simply just google reference. I'd also remind you that your home address is in fact on your DMV issued drivers license as well. None of this is private and never has been. It's been identified that a private entity has restricted access (purposefully OR NOT) to public records that should be readily obtainable.

Things should be done to make the server run and fair to all types of RPers, cops and crims alike, not a 70-30 split in favor of PD.

The "PD GETS EVERYTHING" argument is so exhausting and basically gaslighting. The police department is at a significant advantage in nearly every category. We cant break the law. We cant operate outside of our department mandated SOPs. We cant act in a sense of corruption. We can barely lie without significant ramifications. Please do not exhaust me any further with the 70-30 split in favor of PD because its absolute bull and gaslights.

Let me be real with you here.

At the end of the day, if you're storing mass amounts of weapons, drugs, money and other illegal materials IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL HOME you are not the "smart" criminal you may make yourself out to be. There's definitely criminals in the server that have found ways to operate around this where they wont be tied to any of their criminal behaviors. It may be time to stop stomping feet and adapt quick on your feet to be a true crime mastermind. Otherwise...it's only a matter of time till you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and get slammed by the law.
Inb4 everyone reads this and determines that they are suddenly even more masterful criminals IC, and PD no longer has a shot at investigations or raids
 
I agree the house records shouldnt be only under D8 but the PD shouldnt have the records in our server the DOJ should have access and give the properties out upon the signage of the search warrant

This should have been brought up and discussed.
I, personally, do not trust everyone in the PD to follow the SOP, do their job right, and keep all that information quiet.
I don't trust that they won't scout out all the properties they can and meta it.
I might be inclined to trust the DOJ because at least I feel like people who practice law will keep that information.
 
There was a court hearing that I wasn't able to attend?
Don't seem very public if the general public doesn't have access.

Anyway to help the PD tho, pretty pathetic imo
Why would I want everyone in the city know where I live? Seems like a breach of privacy.
The public wasn't even allowed to vote on this?
So the public didn't get any type of information or even statement on being invited or even seeing such "vote" in progress? Feelsbadman...

From my understanding, the supreme court doesn't make any type of law; rather they redefine or rework the laws of the land stated by Congress or by the United States Constitution.
State Supreme Court
Since we want to compare it heavily to real life, just hear me out, where was the law that needed to be redefined or changed that the "State Supreme Court" felt as if it was not clearly representing or benefiting the laws of the land? Typically these court cases or even votes are publicly broadcasted to the public with peers that will also representing the public in their best interest.

Making a whole new law doesn't come from the Supreme court, rather Congress does make the laws of the land that are later refined or reshaped by the Supreme Court. In Congress, there are members of congress that will put their constituents' interests before theirs or else they would be voted out of the position of power that was given to them. From my understanding after reading the post, is that members of the public weren't informed nor were even aware of this happening at all?

From my sources (😄) I've been informed that the party that would typically handle this type of information respectfully declined the request that of the Police Department, in which could of asked for involvement for the state government that has been put in place by members? Department of Justice is the head of the city? The judges? This is their duty.. Their job is to handle the laws of the city and the cases that happen within the city?
The "PD GETS EVERYTHING" argument is so exhausting and basically gaslighting. The police department is at a significant disadvantage in nearly every category. We cant break the law. We cant operate outside of our department mandated SOPs. We cant act in a sense of corruption. We can barely lie without significant ramifications. Please do not exhaust me any further with the 70-30 split in favor of PD because its absolute bull and gaslights.
I mean if we want to get down to it, the PD should be going through the court records regarding property ownership... This gives the PD such a power that isn't even given in the general public in real life.. Since you want to compare this to real life.. (We've been on this subject for ages) Police systems work in the way that they must go through public records, that of the court system.. Most criminals though are saved in their system, because they have a record with them and have been noted?
At the end of the day, if you're storing mass amounts of weapons, drugs, money and other illegal materials IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL HOME you are not the "smart" criminal you may make yourself out to be. There's definitely criminals in the server that have found ways to operate around this where they wont be tied to any of their criminal behaviors. It may be time to stop stomping feet and adapt quick on your feet to be a true crime mastermind. Otherwise...it's only a matter of time till you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and get slammed by the law.
Even the smartest criminals alive, have been caught with things on their personal property?? They've still been named the smartest criminals in history...
The police and the DOJ need this information in relation to crimes that require the execution of a search warrant or apprehension of an individual.
Take the information and have it only available to that of the Court System? I don't understand why the PD needs this type of information, I understand you guys want part in the records that are kept.. Give it to the actual power of the city that is suppose to be in-charge of records of their civilians?

This is something that shouldn't of been a Leadership agreement, rather the involvement of the player base of the server... This should involve both sides to hash out the differences and get to a common ground.
 
This should have been brought up and discussed.
I, personally, do not trust everyone in the PD to follow the SOP, do their job right, and keep all that information quiet.
I don't trust that they won't scout out all the properties they can and meta it.
I might be inclined to trust the DOJ because at least I feel like people who practice law will keep that information.
If the application for warrants were something that could be obtained by lets say a freedom of information request...
all it would take is one corrupt judge and this will get out of control.. nevermind that the locals are just totally not in play here so how many players could there be. I'm with Blossom.. the police community is bizarrely just barely under control. The bar for investigation is very low.
 
I find it slightly annoying with a player base mostly from the western free world that I would have to xplain representative government or the repercussions of impinging on the sense of democracy, equality, or privacy would have. Whatever benefit the proponents of this controversial change were advocating for .. are you sure it is worth the blowback?
 
I hope this answers some questions and subsides some concerns, my door is always opened.
I think I've had all evening to think about this. For me the questions aren't around the mechanics of subpoena versus search warrant. They aren't about whether this is a reasonable public record to have "on hand" for law enforcement especially since it only targets the less than 200 ish actual people in the city which is crazy focused compared to IRL (since comparisons have been made).

For me my question is more.. why couldn't there have been more transparency and community discussion before the change was made. It seemed to come out of nowhere.. this ham-fisted new law with no debate or explanation. Like a solution looking for a problem.

What is the process leadership undertakes before making a change to the city that affects everyone? There is a balance to be kept.
What are leadership's goals for the city? What does this change provide in the furtherance of those goals?
Unpopular decisions are not always bad.... but you'd have to quantify how they are good.

Daaaang man I don't want to have to watch FiveM CSPAN... BUT I WILL IF I HAVE TO.
 
Unpopular decisions are not always bad.... but you'd have to quantify how they are good.
Of the hundreds of players who play here, there have been 5 or 6 post here? Let’s not paint the picture that EVERYONE is upset.

I think the Leaders would be happy to address concerns of the few folks here that have concerns. You may want to consider talking about it on discord or teamspeak rather than lighting up this forum thread. That’s my best recommendation.
 
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