Actual Pyro Update info

[Newman]

way to go valve, you just unbalanced TF2.

A backburner? great. So you figured, hey, we already made the pyro all powerful against spies before the unlocks were released, let's help him imitate the heaps of spies he easily and noobishly kills by giving him a backstab capability. Great idea. Now as people run away from the flames which instantly catch them on fire, instead of just dying because they are mostly unable to outrun pyros, they get to certainly die due to crit flames. How inovative.

As for the flare gun, pick one. You want them to be an ambush class? Make their weapons short range. Currently the only way a class can beat a pyro beyond shear out-healthing them (in which they will probably die from the flames anyway) is keeping their distance. But now we've broken down that barrier of unreasonability. How dare any class ever get the chance to have a fair advantage over the pyro as the pyro so easily does over spies?

As for the airblast? A great tactical idea, but when you couple the power it adds to the pyro with the already massive amounts of unbalancing done, it is just another can of gasoline poured onto the flames of destruction in the balance of this once glorious game.

1. take it from a career pyro, most people when running away from a pyro are running backwards so they can shoot it and kill it,and so what we get crit flames in back of someone, we get the shortest range weapon in the game and are out healthed and gunned by most of the classes

2. every class has a major advantage over the pyro(except the spy, but even good spys can own the pyros) every class in the game can out range the pyro easy, as said before we have extremely short range weapons, and the shotgun is horrible for range, with the bullet spread being unbearabe at even close range. Now also read the description of the flare gun, it takes care full aiming (im thinkking like with the demoman's grenade launcher) i doubt we will get the bouce that the grenades do

3. the airblast saves us from the crits (which i have found every class gets more often than the pyro does) and the air bast is only on the regular flamethrower the backburner will not have the effect, so the yro is not over balanced, it actually has been balanced out

 

[Robotnik]

The Pyro is a situational class, just like spy. People seem to think he is meant to be this charging maniac of destruction, but he isn't. He's meant to be used to in tactical situations to cause enemies to pull back, defeat relentless spies, and provide a room clearing uber. They just made the Pyro into another heavy...except more powerful.

I don't see how Pyro turned into a Heavy now.

Using normal flamethrower will get you stuck with a not-so-good damage it provides, but you will have air blast which can be used for defense against explosives and pushing ubers. It's fine.

Backburner. If you are a Heavy/Soldier/Demo - check your six. Just turning around before he catches up gives you the chance. Even with the added hp the Pyro will go down. Hmm, didn't watch your back? You die. As you would die by the hand of Heavy or Soldier. Support classes die both by front flaming and by back flaming so in their case it doesn't matter. You also lose your air blast - leaving you vurnable to explosives. Which means no effective front charging. It's fine.

Flare gun. Not doing any damage, only ignites. But it won't save your butt as the shotgun would. So? Long range DoT with the cost of self-defense or shotgun, but no DoT? It's fine.

Axtinquisher. Crit on burned enemy. Makes the Pyro look good in front ambushes. But he still has to get in melee range. Can still be juggled by Soldiers, killed by Heavies. Normally does half damage, useless against other Pyro's. Risk and reward. It's fine.

It's a huge step over the Medic unlocks. Each of those babies is a choice, not upgrade. Yes, the long range Spy checks may be a pain in the ass for you, BUT...as far as you may suffer due to this from time to time...the Pyro will probably suffer more, cause he has no way of defending himself with it. He will get thrashed by your mates often.

 

[wasawiki.]

I want those weapons!
This is gonna be fun

 

[Zopy]

In my opinion, I'm still torn as to what I am going to use as my (probably) permanent line up of Pyro weapons.

Hereby, I am going to compare the weapons.

Flamethrower- With the new blast of air, pyros are going to die alot less, because of this, a good pyro who deflected a crit rocket could possibly gain another 5 or 6 kills that life.

Backburner- First off 50 extra hp, wow, simply wonderful news for career pyros like me and newman. I'm more of a tactical pyro, I'm the one who camps the teleporter exit instead of destroying it, burninating every sorry soul who comes through it, and this gun is going to help me and my tactics. No compression blast? Meh, I've been fine without it so far.

BACKBURNER WINS

Shotgun- I know some pyros who have more kills with the shotgun than they do with the flamethrower, and I can't blame them. The shotgun is an absolute finishing weapon, its use is for those people who run away while on fire.

Flare Gun- First off, this is as close to an IC as we can get. This is great as we can finally set people on fire from afar. However, this lacks the finishing power that the shotgun has, and requires some good aim and a sense of where the enemy will be when the fireball hits.

SHOTGUN WINS(However, you will personally find me using the Flare Gun)

Fire Axe- A fun humiliation weapon, I find it to come in useful sometimes, as I face alot of enemies with their backs to me. Has a pretty high crit rate.

Axetinguisher- Another fun humiliation weapon, however, this one guarantees a crit against a person on fire, but does 1/2 damage to someone who isn't. Now, IMO, I find this to be the least useless of all the unlocks (yes, worse than the Kritzkrieg). I can only speak for myself, but when I ignite someone, I make them angry, and they're gonna want my head, I personally don't have enough time to switch from Primary to Melee, and get in and axe them. I just don't

FIRE AXE WINS

 

[Mr. Dogma]

Man, I'm actually torn between some of the choices. On the one hand is the old flamethrower with the new air blast. Great defensive tool and now I can finally get a chance at those soldiers who like to juggle me and those demos who like to drop stickies as they backpedal. However, during my play so far without the updates, my easiest kills tend to come from me catching someone from behind, which let's face it, isn't as easy as it sounds sometimes. It's not as a easy as hiding around a corner, because the flamethrower is generally too long for the wall and the other guy knows there's something up when the business end is just sitting there in the middle of a doorway. The backburner on the other hand will be even more choice. Sure, I no longer have the defensive capabilities, but I've done fine without it so far. Plus now there's the health boost. Makes those people who aren't watching their backs pay for it. I may be juggling these. I love them both.

Which brings me to the axe vs axetinguisher. I love the ax. I may not get to use it all that much except on those pesky snipers, but it's still fun. Plus there's those times I battle someone in melee combat. I could see it being particularly useful against enemy snipers because they're so oblivious to their surroundings you can just ignite them then smack them with the axe to drop them on the spot. However, that scenario begs the question: "Why not just use the backburner?" And while I agree for the most part, there's the fact you can save ammo, but if that was the case, best just kill them with the taunt. Saves ammo entirely. Most of the times when I surprise someone with the flamethrower, I've moved in as close as possible to guarantee I hit them with the flames and to make sure I get the maximum amount of damage. Probably gets me the opportunity to axetinguish them. But still, begs the question, "Why not just use the backburner?". Most likely not going to be using the axetinguisher.

Flaregun vs Shotty. I dunno. I love the shotty. I mean yeah, everyone has it, but it's actually important to the pyro. The lack of range that every other weapon has, he just needs it. On the other hand, long range spy checking would be cool, but I doubt I could hit anything with it. It would be fun to piss off enemy snipers, but I dunno. I think I'd rather just sneak up on them and taunt them to death. It would also be cool to launch flares at people and set them on fire giving me some nice range action, but I dunno how fast it travels. If it's like the soldier or the demo which can be easily dodged at about mid-range (excluding shots at the feet), then I'm not gonna be using that either. I mean yeah it could deal some nice damage (over time), but it just doesn't have the usefulness the shotty does.

Think I pretty much agree with Zopy there.

 

[Newman]

they were smart with this one, you actually have a good reason to use the old weapons too

 

[lyse242]

flare gun is probably my least favorite, its probably gonna be a single shot, difficult to aim with and staying with the pyro theme wont really do a walloping amount of damage at once, im thinking itll be just like igniting someone
im liking the axetinguisher, i like to meele things alot so i might try this if i ever flame someone, might be fun

so if i unlock everything ill probably go with backburner, axetinguisher, and i should probably use the shotgun but ill go with flare gun :/

 

[Mr. Dogma]

they were smart with this one, you actually have a good reason to use the old weapons too

They were pretty good about it yeah. Though I've heard talk of people griping and saying the pyro will be overpowered. Clearly they forget the other classes have upgrades coming too. I can't wait to see what will break the soldier and demo.

 

[imported_Soviet]

1. take it from a career pyro, most people when running away from a pyro are running backwards so they can shoot it and kill it,and so what we get crit flames in back of someone, we get the shortest range weapon in the game and are out healthed and gunned by most of the classes

2. every class has a major advantage over the pyro(except the spy, but even good spys can own the pyros) every class in the game can out range the pyro easy, as said before we have extremely short range weapons, and the shotgun is horrible for range, with the bullet spread being unbearabe at even close range. Now also read the description of the flare gun, it takes care full aiming (im thinkking like with the demoman's grenade launcher) i doubt we will get the bouce that the grenades do

3. the airblast saves us from the crits (which i have found every class gets more often than the pyro does) and the air bast is only on the regular flamethrower the backburner will not have the effect, so the yro is not over balanced, it actually has been balanced out

I only run backwards if I am a scout or medic, knowing I can outrun them when running backwards. Otherwise I get out of the reach of flames so I don't take even more fire damage. You get the shortest range weapons in the game because that is what your class is for. As for being outgunned, scouts have less firepower, engineers have less firepower, medics have less firepower, and spies have less firepower.

Scout's advantage is negligible and useless in most circumstances if facing a decent pyro. Demomen only have an advantage equal to their placement of stickies before your combat with them begins. Engineer's only advantage is a well placed sentry gun, which is actually the same for it against every class. Medics don't have an advantage. Snipers don't have an advantage (a good pyro can typically avoid getting shot by snipers at range), and spies definitely don't. One could also argue that soldiers are terrible at long range, a mediocre player can typically dodge most of the damage of their rockets, and their shotgun is useless at long range as well. Same with spies. Same with medics. The only time scouts are effective at range is when they get crits with their pistol. Heavies have dramatically less effect at range. TF2 is very much a close combat game, and pyros are the epitome of that part of the game. To be honest I don't have as huge a problem with the flare gun as I do the backburner, as long as its range is not like a rocket's.

No other class gets a save from crits, I don't see why the pyro should be special. I think it would be more suited for a class like scout or spy, which have so little health. And the backburner has completely negated the spy's backstab ability as powerful and original, because now pyros have it too.

I don't see how Pyro turned into a Heavy now.

Using normal flamethrower will get you stuck with a not-so-good damage it provides, but you will have air blast which can be used for defense against explosives and pushing ubers. It's fine.

Backburner. If you are a Heavy/Soldier/Demo - check your six. Just turning around before he catches up gives you the chance. Even with the added hp the Pyro will go down. Hmm, didn't watch your back? You die. As you would die by the hand of Heavy or Soldier. Support classes die both by front flaming and by back flaming so in their case it doesn't matter. You also lose your air blast - leaving you vurnable to explosives. Which means no effective front charging. It's fine.

Flare gun. Not doing any damage, only ignites. But it won't save your butt as the shotgun would. So? Long range DoT with the cost of self-defense or shotgun, but no DoT? It's fine.

Axtinquisher. Crit on burned enemy. Makes the Pyro look good in front ambushes. But he still has to get in melee range. Can still be juggled by Soldiers, killed by Heavies. Normally does half damage, useless against other Pyro's. Risk and reward. It's fine.

It's a huge step over the Medic unlocks. Each of those babies is a choice, not upgrade. Yes, the long range Spy checks may be a pain in the ass for you, BUT...as far as you may suffer due to this from time to time...the Pyro will probably suffer more, cause he has no way of defending himself with it. He will get thrashed by your mates often.

I can get unhealably injured as a spy with .5 seconds of medium to close range flames, that is not a not so powerful gun. It just doesn't have range. Similar to the scattergun, except you can spray with it and get afterdamage.

In the heat of action people aren't going to be turning around, like when you are going for that last capture on dustbowl. Then, some pyro is going to run up and backstab your entire team with a spray of flamethrower. And in a close quarters fight, you might as well back against a corner so you won't get hit by crit flames, otherwise you will be hit by them at some point in the fight. But when you're in that corner you will die anyway. Think about all those times you get in melee fights with spies and they pull off lucky backstabs. Now multiply that chance by about 50 and that is the chance you will take crit flames in a fight.

If it doesn't fire like the rocket launcher, I don't care. Otherwise, overpowered and defeating purpose of pyro.

At one point I would have said the axtinguisher will be like the new knife, however, with the backburner, I don't really need to worry about it anymore. It is fine and other than the cool taunt that will probably come with it, nothing amazing in comparison.

 

[Robotnik]

No other class gets a save from crits, I don't see why the pyro should be special. I think it would be more suited for a class like scout or spy, which have so little health. And the backburner has completely negated the spy's backstab ability as powerful and original, because now pyros have it too.

Scouts and Spies are fine, they are deadly in ambushes and flanking, because they have the tools to do so. Scouts have speed. The run up close and quickly deal large chuncks of damage with the scatter. They can eliminate a key target and run away. Spies have cloak and disguise. While not having a powerful close range gun like Scout, they have the knife which kills from behind. You appear behind someone's back and do stabbing. When they get aware of your doings - cloak and escape.

Now, Pyro...he finds himself ambushing an enemy group. You know, offensive classes with Medics, for example. They have their backs turned. By flaming them he will not do enough damage to prove effective. If anything, he alerts them. And then what? He has not tools for escaping. He dies. That's how the situation ends usually.

Now, here is the problem - Valve describes him as a master of ambush CQC. They were thinking what to do so he can be one. So the ideas are:

-front ambushing: flamethrower/backburner + axtinquisher and abusing the slow back pedal of Heavies and Soldiers. Flamethrower has air blast. Good if something goes wrong (pushing them back with air blast) or finishing them of with their own tools (deflecting with air blast). Backburner sacrifices air blast, but gives extra hp so you can hang in there more while axing.

-back ambushing: backburner. Hmm, let's review the ambushes here. Scouts and Spies rely on big damage and escaping tools. That's great. Heavies and Soldier rely on brutal power and tanking. They can kill in matter of seconds and even if someone manages to turn...they still have the hp to take them down while being damaged.

So...giving the Pyro more speed? Nah. Cloak? Uhhh.

That's right. Brutal damage and tanking are the way out. Damage that's comparable to Heavy and Soldier. Something that won't give chances to the ambushed enemy. The crit flame!

In the heat of action people aren't going to be turning around, like when you are going for that last capture on dustbowl. Then, some pyro is going to run up and backstab your entire team with a spray of flamethrower. And in a close quarters fight, you might as well back against a corner so you won't get hit by crit flames, otherwise you will be hit by them at some point in the fight. But when you're in that corner you will die anyway. Think about all those times you get in melee fights with spies and they pull off lucky backstabs. Now multiply that chance by about 50 and that is the chance you will take crit flames in a fight.

If it doesn't fire like the rocket launcher, I don't care. Otherwise, overpowered and defeating purpose of pyro.

At one point I would have said the axtinguisher will be like the new knife, however, with the backburner, I don't really need to worry about it anymore. It is fine and other than the cool taunt that will probably come with it, nothing amazing in comparison.

We can argue here. I can say that no matter how aware is the player, he finally gets caught into a situation when he's shooting enemies ahead and just forgets about his back. This is the situation for Spies to go and get an easy backstab. The situation when practically anyone can sneak up and kill the target.

So it all comes down to Medic and teammates. With mikes. I play on iO servers from time to time. I often get Medics. And they are CONSTANTLY looking around, even in the heat of the battle. It's their job to watch for ambushers, no matter the situation. You are shooting, you cannot. They heal, they dodge rockets, their infrom of danger.

And I don't see why you complain about Pyro having an ambush attack smilliar to backstab. I mean, let's get this once again:

Scout - runs in, pops you with the scatter for major damage. He still can't take out the whole group, BUT he can eliminate the Medic almost instantly and get away with it. It's 2 shots to kill a Medic at close range and 1 to kill with backstab. Deadly as backstab.

Soldiers - they get behind the guys, they get the chance of direct blasting with the rockets. That's 2 to kill the Medic. Pop in the other 2 to the patient and finish the work with shotgun. And we all know the infamous crit rockets which are 1 hit kill in most cases. Deadly as backstab.

Heavies - that's my #1 point here. He does insane close range damage. His back ambush is instagib. So look, the backburner Pyro was in the game the whole time - he was called "Heavy".

They basicly gave the Pyro the ability to pull off a Heavy ambush in terms of damage, as long as he can sneak up. He was designed to wreck havoc in situations like that. As the CQC class. Now he finally can.

See, this is the main complain on the steampowered forums - Heavies/Soldiers/Scout/Spies, they are all better at ambushes. Now Valve decided to balance Pyro out by giving him awesome damage from behind. This is all good news.

And lastly, Pyro won't overshadow Spy in any way! Spies can go in the enemy base undetected and sabotage it. Destroy it's defenses from inside. Instantly kill and escape. Sap sentries. Take out Snipers. He can use cloak for quick escape. What if the new Pyro fails his ambush? He is either killed or forced to escape. Then you hear the nice "Pyro going this way!1" over mike. They will hunt him down. Detected Spy can cloak. He can lose the pursue by faking the direction he is going while cloaked.

Skilled Spy > skilled Pyro. The uptade won't change it. It also won't help him in mindless charging. It will help him in ambushes. You really think it's bad thing to do for a class like Pyro? I say it's awesome.

 

[Black cat]

I don't see the problem you have with the back burner Soviet.
If a soldier gets up behind you, you're dead, if a Heavy gets up behind you, you're dead, if a spy gets behind you, you're dead. Giving the Ambush class a weapon that makes him better at this is a good decision.
Also, the Axtinguisher probably won't be combined with the back burner anyway, by the sensible pyro. Why have a weapon that you have to come from behind with to use properly? In that situation you'll stick with the burna. But if you want to use the Axtinguisher you'll use the normal flamethrower, as it can crit occasionally and will give a good reason to swap out to that other weapon.
$0.2

 

[DNice77]

I'm dying here at work... I want to know if anyone's unlocked the flare gun yet and what it's like...

come on let me live vicariously through you!!!!! please!

 

[Zopy]

The update isnt out yet, its late...what else is new? =P

 

[Haggus McGee]

WHEN IS IT COMING?? it's late and 9oclock for uk, time 2 woch heroes series 2 which is on in uk now

 

[Toasteddude]

UPDATE is out! Get it now!