Hello everyone, over the last few weeks I have come to realize how much of a joke the punishment system on TTT really is. Many players rdm and they RARELY, not always but most times come out of trouble with no warning, no kick, no ban. Sometimes admins takes care of it, sometimes they don't. A few admins take always care of reports and some just simply ignore it.
[To the admins who don't want to take care of reports: Get your ego removed on the TTT server, in such way no one will put their time on you for you to take care of something that you won't.]
Some players only get warnings, maybe a kick once in a while but never a ban. If you don't get a harsher system, player will continue to rdm because they will keep getting away with it.
The forums is a good place to come to if you want a player to be banned. Something I have come to realize is that, using the same footage here and in game, the player will most likely get a warning or a kick and on the forums, the player will get a ban.
A lot of the TTT experience is getting ruined by those players that rdm and get away and those admins that never take care of reports.
With this post I am not saying to revamp the whole thing, I am just saying to become a bit harsher, don't be afraid to ban player or put them in their place. Veteran players/those players who knows the rules and actually follows it are getting their experience ruined thanks to the rdmers.
That is all.
The system in place when effectively used should offer exactly what you are looking for. The problem here isn't that we need a harsher system, we need all admins on the same page of what is what, and maybe better RDM detection server side. MassRDM? Ask me, it'd make sense to have a system that bans 'em for a week. There are cases where MassRDM SHOULDN'T equal an instant ban, mainly in JB. But I agree, we could do more to have some more consistency on what should happen when rules are broken, and I think that this is something the AT team could work on.
If you'd like to know why I think the current punishment system is OK, I could discuss it with you, and whoever else is interested, because I guarantee its not what you think.
Ultimately, I don't think there needs to be a harsher system. From what I can tell, it seems fairly balanced. Sometimes decisions by admins are made for reasons you're not aware of.
I think this is what the main focus should be. Some admins might not understand entirely how to moderate TTT since there are more specific things to consider. Perhaps implementing TTT admin training is the best move.
I'm personally an admin first, play second kind of TTT "player". The problem with most reports is that there is no evidence provided (for good reason - would be extremely tedious to upload every time you get RDM'd) so when we do investigate the situation, the person that is accused of RDMing has a story that lines up with the logs and then we (admins) cannot do more.
If you truly want players to be punished, then you should always provide evidence. It helps admins out tremendously.
Most of the time non-admins will not see when we warn because it is done over private chat. I personally will tell the person that reported the RDM when I warn someone. While I am still online if that player continues to RDM I will escalate it as I see necessary.
The culture that we teach new admins is to "play first, admin second". On TTT specifically it can be very hard to do both. That said, they should be handling reports when they die/are able to. They do not have to stop mid round to answer your report. If you continually see the same person never handling your reports, I encourage you to make a CL with evidence.
The problem with an automated system for mass RDM is that, based on the definition of mass RDM, many people would likely get false bans. It is 100% necessary for online admins to handle these situations manually. The last thing CS leadership needs is more ban contests.
As far as consistency goes, there is only so much we can do at the AT level. We train new admins all the same using the same guides.
The problem with an automated system for mass RDM is that, based on the definition of mass RDM, many people would likely get false bans. It is 100% necessary for online admins to handle these situations manually. The last thing CS leadership needs is more ban contests.
As far as consistency goes, there is only so much we can do at the AT level. We train new admins all the same using the same guides.
Just imagine the Mass RDM detection going BESERK on closequarters and other T room maps. As amazing as it would be, it's not really feasible to do it in a decent manner.
Anyway, here's my point of view on this suggestion as a (what I'd say to be) active TTT admin. Fairly similar to sopheyy, I usually admin first, play second on TTT, unlike what's suggested and most other admins do. If I could even count the number of times I've thrown away a T round or slayed so that I could handle reports without delaying the round. Of course, I don't regret doing so at all as I'd much rather help someone out than get a couple moments of joy winning a T round. Considering that I do this, I can also very easily say I completely understand why other admins choose not to do this and rather handle reports when they're dead or allow another admin to handle it (reports can also get lost in the hectic TTT chat) as it basically makes playing TTT impossible once the 10 reports/2-3 minutes comes in. In addition, there are admins who may not have been trained on TTT (and instead are trained for/admin other CS servers [or even other d*vis*ons]) and thus can't handle anything on TTT, you shouldn't expect them to be able to do anything.
[To the admins who don't want to take care of reports: Get your ego removed on the TTT server, in such way no one will put their time on you for you to take care of something that you won't.]
If you're an admin on eGO, it applies to all or no servers. You can't get your admin removed for only one server, and even if you could I could think of countless reasons not to do it even if you don't admin RDMs and the such on TTT.
I will fully admit that kicks and bans are used scarcely, and 9 times out of 10 that's due to lack of evidence. Compared to other CS servers, TTT is notoriously hard to admin, mostly due to it boiling down to a he-said she-said so often with zero evidence but logs to back anything up. Even then, logs are somewhat difficult to understand and don't tell the full story or have enough to make a decision.
Take this example, Player A supposedly RDMs Player B, Player B takes to admin chat saying that Player A RDMed them, the back and forth would look something like this (this a very simplified example and OBVIOUSLY isn't reflective of any exact situation as things are handled case-by-case and are different per admin. There's also likely minute[s] of delay between the players responding most of the time):
(TO Player A): Why did you kill Player B? Respond with an @ followed by your message.
(TO ADMINS): Player A: bruh, he killed an inno and ran over the body
(TO Player B): Player A is saying that he saw you kill someone then run away from the un-ided, can you confirm this?
(TO ADMINS) Player B: that guys lying. no way he saw me, I was behind a wall and I was gone before he would've seen the un-ided or caught my name
(TO Player B): Do you have a clip?
(TO Player A): Do you have a clip?
(TO ADMINS): Player B: No
(TO ADMINS): Player A: No Admin reviews logs in a mostly futile attempt to verify either person's story, coming out empty (in this case things to look for in logs are ID times and kill times, to try and work out a timeline)
(TO Player B): Sadly we're unable to do much as neither parties story can be verified. Admin watches Player A very roughly for the next while to see if they can catch anything, also keeping an eye out for additional similar reports against Player A
In-game admining vs. forum admining would be different. On the forums, a team of LE members (or sometimes one or two) will review and discuss all available evidence for an extended period of time, also taking into account whether the player in question had previous bans, has similar reports on them, is reported often (according to admins), etc (I'm not LE, but this is what I assume happens). In game, things are dealt with in a quicker manner with less resources available, we don't have access to however many times they were warned before, kicked before, or banned before, don't have the liberty of discussing for long-periods of time with other admins (of course if there are multiple admins on we can have a quick one in admin chat), etc.
Personally, I believe a more official warning system could be beneficial, similar to how we can now access a player's CT ban history on JB. It could be easier to see how many times the player has done the exact same thing before and take that into account when handling a situation.
If an offence is severe enough or you believe they're a constant repeat offender, it's recommended to do a forum report instead. Things in-game are dealt with differently.
How do you suggest we "become harsher"? It's not particularly easy to do so while being balanced and fair, the current punishment system does somewhat well even if it doesn't achieve the kicks and bans that most people expect. Personally, all I really wish for TTT is to have some better way of verifying what happened (which I get is hard to make), and warn/kick history.
It exists, admins have the option of opting for additional TTT admin training, and/or JB admin training during their AT session. They can also request it after the fact. Although to be fair, basic knowledge and punishment outline aside, TTT admining is learned hands-on through experience.
I have personally never seen this happen (and definitely not intentionally). Not sure why you would think this so I'll cover the general common ones: warns are done through PMs, and aren't visible to the general public (or the reporting party), any back and forth between the admin and the reported user is done STRICTLY in PMs as well and are thus not visible, every now and then an admin will forget to let the reporting user know that their report was dealt with (even if it was finished and dealt with, usually by a warn), your report may have gotten lost in chat, in very VERY RARE circumstances a report could get forgotten about if there's an overwhelming amount of reports for the online administration team.
Now, if you do believe that someone is taking reports and intentionally ignoring them very often, please do submit a Contact LE thread with however much evidence you have.
Wanted to give an update to the forum mods to close this.
I have come to realize that uploading a clip of the incident is way better than to just report word vs word. Thank you all the admins above for the help. I highly appreciate it.
