Counter-Strike Not Planned [CS JB] Cancel LR If Last Guard Is Activated

[Jacko]

Last Request should be cancelled if Last Guard is activated.

Implementing this can help reduce round length. Both Last Request and Last Guard add extra time to an already lengthy round timer. Players typically leave because they do not want to spectate. Reducing round length can help player retention on the server.

@Rohan made this great suggestion a while back in the Jailbreak server specialist discord channel when were were talking about the Reduce LR Time thread.

 

[Baefy]

Do you mean like, if the Ts kill CTs down to last guard, then that last guard kills the Ts until 2, there shouldnt be LRs? He should just kill all of them? I dont know about this... Its only 1 more CT and i feel like half the time if last guard was already activated theres a T hiding waiting until his HP gets back down to normal, then theyll take the fight.

However I do hear you on people not wanting to spectate, I think that we should just basically implement some kind of "dont be a jackass and delay" rule. Lots of people don't give the Ts a time to LR by anymore, or if they do they say to LR by 1 second. Then they'll go and play climb for 2-5 minutes while almost 50 people watch them and it is quite annoying.

 

[milo]

Do you mean like, if the Ts kill CTs down to last guard, then that last guard kills the Ts until 2, there shouldnt be LRs? He should just kill all of them? I dont know about this... Its only 1 more CT and i feel like half the time if last guard was already activated theres a T hiding waiting until his HP gets back down to normal, then theyll take the fight.

However I do hear you on people not wanting to spectate, I think that we should just basically implement some kind of "dont be a jackass and delay" rule. Lots of people don't give the Ts a time to LR by anymore, or if they do they say to LR by 1 second. Then they'll go and play climb for 2-5 minutes while almost 50 people watch them and it is quite annoying.

I agree with the latter half of this, perhaps there should be more enforcement of delaying in regards to LR. Whether it's by wardens not giving a time to LR by or T's just not doing anything, people really do not want to sit and watch people do nothing.

 

[Jacko]

Do you mean like, if the Ts kill CTs down to last guard, then that last guard kills the Ts until 2, there shouldnt be LRs? He should just kill all of them?

Yeah, so the Last Guard would have to kill all T's without having to leave the last two prisoners alive.

However I do hear you on people not wanting to spectate, I think that we should just basically implement some kind of "dont be a jackass and delay" rule. Lots of people don't give the Ts a time to LR by anymore, or if they do they say to LR by 1 second. Then they'll go and play climb for 2-5 minutes while almost 50 people watch them and it is quite annoying.

I do agree with you that Wardens are not giving a minimum time to LR as they should be doing. Admins are also lacking enforcement when it comes to players delaying LR. Introducing an automatic minimum time to LR can help but that's a separate suggestion all together.

Removing Last Request from Last Guard can help minimize players from leaving by reducing the average length of a round especially when the server population struggles the most like late night or early in the day.

 

[milo]

Yeah, so the Last Guard would have to kill all T's without having to leave the last two prisoners alive.

If last guard had to also kill the last two T's, wouldn't this extend the process of last guard as a whole? I feel like at some points, especially when admins aren't making CT's / T's pursue, this would result in even longer rounds.

I do agree with you that Wardens are not giving a minimum time to LR as they should be doing. Admins are also lacking enforcement when it comes to players delaying LR. Introducing an automatic minimum time to LR can help but that's a separate suggestion all together.

The point Baefy made I still agree with, as it isn't a huge change to last guard as a whole. A simple change in the rules saying wardens have to give a set time to LR (unless it's already there, I'm not entirely sure), will make people actually do it instead of having to have admins warn them for delaying. Admins should of course still stop people from delaying, but I feel like changing the rules a little could make the impact much larger on round times.

 

[Jacko]

If last guard had to also kill the last two T's, wouldn't this extend the process of last guard as a whole? I feel like at some points, especially when admins aren't making CT's / T's pursue, this would result in even longer rounds.

Sure Guards will now have to chase down and kill the last two T's but at least additional time won't be added to the round with LR being activated. If this change is implemented Last Guard additional round timer can be reduced if it proves to drag out.

The point Baefy made I still agree with, as it isn't a huge change to last guard as a whole. A simple change in the rules saying wardens have to give a set time to LR (unless it's already there, I'm not entirely sure), will make people actually do it instead of having to have admins warn them for delaying. Admins should of course still stop people from delaying, but I feel like changing the rules a little could make the impact much larger on round times.

I think having an automatic server timer would be better than a rule addition. I made a suggestion to that in THIS post https://www.edgegamers.com/threads/379395/ .

 

[santa]

I don't like this, half of the time last guard ends up with the T's in a game with no guns. Would basically be fish in a barrel half the time. -1000 from me

 

[Jacko]

I don't like this, half of the time last guard ends up with the T's in a game with no guns. Would basically be fish in a barrel half the time. -1000 from me

Let's arm the T's too.

 

[Baefy]

Let's arm the T's too.

what do you think of bumping up Last Guard HP and giving all the Ts glocks?

 

[Jacko]

what do you think of bumping up Last Guard HP and giving all the Ts glocks?

honestly sounds like a good time

 

[santa]

Let's arm the T's too.

Then the Ct will die immediately.

 

[Jacko]

Then the Ct will die immediately.

There's a way we can balance it. Baefy suggested possibly increasing CT's health and if T's having a glock proves to be too T sided we can start reducing ammo capacity. Last CT becomes too OP? We can remove the negev, reduce health, etc.

Last Request shouldn't be rewarded from a Last Guard round. Last Guard being activated is usually an indication of Wardens and CT's losing control of the round. Gaining a win from being a Last CT should be a challenge.

This suggestion along with reducing LR time is to help keep players on the server longer. People get bored when they aren't playing.

 

[sopheyy]

I 100% second this.

As santa mentioned, the last guard ends up killing the people in the game that cannot do anything about it - and then the two rebellers that are scattered around the map end up getting LR because they end up pardoned.

This would be a great way to get the round over with and encourage people to fight and rebel instead of running into a corner and hiding, thereby delaying the round.

Also - getting last CT and ending up winning a 1v10+ is so satisfying. This "win" will typically end with LR because of Ts cheesing etc.

 

[Jacko]

I 100% second this.

As santa mentioned, the last guard ends up killing the people in the game that cannot do anything about it - and then the two rebellers that are scattered around the map end up getting LR because they end up pardoned.

This would be a great way to get the round over with and encourage people to fight and rebel instead of running into a corner and hiding, thereby delaying the round.

Also - getting last CT and ending up winning a 1v10+ is so satisfying. This "win" will typically end with LR because of Ts cheesing etc.

That's a great point to add. A lot of the times T's will run away and hide just so they can reach LR thus resulting in an even longer round.

If T's are given a weapon such as a glock with limited ammo capacity they can have a chance at surviving instances where they are all trapped in a game or room.

 

[sopheyy]

If T's are given a weapon such as a glock with limited ammo capacity they can have a chance at surviving instances where they are all trapped in a game or room.

I don't even think this should be a thing. We consider removing LR during last guard, and in order to "compensate", we want to give the T's an advantage? Why?

 

[Polar Bear]

For me waiting isn't really an issue I just watch a video on the side when I'm dead but waiting the +2mins last guard adds then the +2mins LR adds is really boring even for me.

I think instead of giving everyone a glock and increasing the hp for LG ... (balancing issues to no end) that LG time is decreased (maybe to 1:15ish) and LR time when activated from a Last guard is decreased severely

Nobody needs 2mins to LR 1 ct all you really need is 30 seconds for even the longest of possible LRS including you being across the map from each other and having to run to a shared point. The issue here could be the other T not being able to LR but in reality I think 30 people not waiting is better then 1 person getting to throw a gun... T's get the win anyways in LR (Also solution to this is could be adding another 20 seconds or so for the other T if the first T in LR dies)

TL: DR Decrease LR time if a last guard reaches LR and decrease Last Guard time from adding 2 minutes

 

[mouse pouch]

I like your idea Jacko.

 

[santa]

I don't even think this should be a thing. We consider removing LR during last guard, and in order to "compensate", we want to give the T's an advantage? Why?

Because removing LR and just giving CTs the ability to kill everyone right away would literally go against something we made very clear isn't allowed which is "fish in a barrel". That is something that isn't allowed and no matter how you change it the T's and the Ct's weapons will never change the fact that its fish in a barrel. For the almost 4 years I have been playing JB, the only complaints I have heard from t's or Ct's is that people in LR are delaying, which imo would be smart to maybe shorten it or change how long you get depending on CT's etc.

Personally on quake when I get LR I run through the Ct's but it takes me a couple minutes due to the fact they are usually far and can't get to me fast. The only way I see any of this working is with multiple rule adds that will change how JB is played completely.

 

[Jacko]

Because removing LR and just giving CTs the ability to kill everyone right away would literally go against something we made very clear isn't allowed which is "fish in a barrel". That is something that isn't allowed and no matter how you change it the T's and the Ct's weapons will never change the fact that its fish in a barrel. For the almost 4 years I have been playing JB, the only complaints I have heard from t's or Ct's is that people in LR are delaying, which imo would be smart to maybe shorten it or change how long you get depending on CT's etc.

Personally on quake when I get LR I run through the Ct's but it takes me a couple minutes due to the fact they are usually far and can't get to me fast. The only way I see any of this working is with multiple rule adds that will change how JB is played completely.

I think you're overestimating how big of an impact this will cause. When last guard is activated "fish in a barrel" type situations will still happen with or without LR being available. The only difference this change would make is that the last CT can't cherry pick the last 2 t's that manage to survive assuming no one else is rebelling.

FAQ #18 should still be enforced:
18) Would it be allowed if theres 2 CTs left and the Ts are in a stack and one of the CTs slays so the other CT can just spray all the prisoners down?
This is disruption and should be followed up by the swap / swap / ban procedure.

 

[sopheyy]

Because removing LR and just giving CTs the ability to kill everyone right away would literally go against something we made very clear isn't allowed which is "fish in a barrel". That is something that isn't allowed and no matter how you change it the T's and the Ct's weapons will never change the fact that its fish in a barrel. For the almost 4 years I have been playing JB, the only complaints I have heard from t's or Ct's is that people in LR are delaying, which imo would be smart to maybe shorten it or change how long you get depending on CT's etc.

Personally on quake when I get LR I run through the Ct's but it takes me a couple minutes due to the fact they are usually far and can't get to me fast. The only way I see any of this working is with multiple rule adds that will change how JB is played completely.

But "fish in a barrel" still happens regardless of whether or not there's LR. The only difference is that you leave two Ts to live - which is either based on luck or based on those two Ts having rebelled during the round and in reality not deserving of LR.

Edit: I just realized I wrote exactly what Jacko did..