Counter-Strike Not Planned Nerf jb_minecraft_beta_v5z secrets

[MS]

Hi all, currently on jb_minecraft_beta_v5z there are two secrets that I believe give a significant and unfair advantage towards the prisoners.

AWP One-Way
The AWP One-Way has been a historical feature of mc_beta and is fairly well known. I personally have never been a fan of one ways as they encourage camping, are very powerful, and heavily shut down potential defense/counter-attacks from CTs. Though it should obviously be pointed out that CTs need to be careful when bringing prisoners anywhere near the entrance to said secret, I strongly believe the time and risk taken is significantly smaller than the reward granted. Having a one-way with an AWP in an elevated area grants the prisoner an amazing vantage point to most areas of the map. Additionally, it is near impossible to reach this position safely once a prisoner is on the one-way.

Proposed Nerf: I suggest we replace the AWP that is currently in the one-way with a scout (ssg08). This weapon is less powerful than an AWP, however, still allows the prisoner to deal a considerable amount of damage to the round / CTs. Since the scout is not generally considered the "best" weapon (such as AWP / Rifle), it also encourages the rebel to be more daring and risky, forcing them to consider leaving the one-way in pursuit of another weapon. When considering the cost and risk that it takes to reach this secret, I strongly believe a one-way AWP is too strong.

Trapdoor Vent to Nether
A recent addition to this map, the wooden trapdoor that is right outside of cells has only 200 HP (requiring only 6 left click knifes) and grants a one-time teleport into the nether. This teleport isn't necessarily overpowered, by itself, however, it can make camping extremely easy if a CT has not yet entered the nether. One of the biggest issues I see with this secret is the teleport leads to a room with normally only one way in. This can make it extremely difficult for CTs to fairly engage; utility on this map is additionally minimal, so smoking, flashing, or other tactics are few and far between. The fact that it is very much in the way of a common pathway can make it trivial for prisoners to break, though this secret is more preventable as a warden / CT.

Proposed Nerf: I think moving the teleport from into the nether to be in pool or nearby (maybe the 200 hp secret) would improve the gameplay for both teams. There are more paths from the proposed area, and camping would effectively be non-existent. Moving it to the pool or in 200 hp secret still gives a solid teleport for the prisoner while also being fair for the CT. I do admit that this would likely benefit the CTs more than Ts, and am open to alternative teleport locations.

Please let me know what you guys think!

 

[milo]

IMO these secrets are fine as is.

AWP secret as you said is a staple of the map. It’s something you learn to play against as CT whether that be through paying attention when playing climb or just looking at your radar. Once you know someone is in the secret, there are multiple ways you can deal with it; wallbang the very confined room from the sides, drop into the windows from above, or just pursuing it through the secret. If the gun was changed to an SSG, the one way is too easily countered.

The location of the one time TP secret (as well as where it brings you) is good. It’s in a niche area where Ts can still access it in very few rounds, since, for the most part, wardens don’t bring Ts towards HP/disco. On top of this, CTs can always identify that the secret is taken, which means if it brought you to library / pool area as you say it should, at most you get 200hp with a pistol to defend yourself (IF THERE ISNT A CT ON TOP OF YOU ALREADY). While it doesn’t have multiple counters like AWP secret does, the place it teleports you is an area of the map that is barely touched, and with enough CTs, can easily be pushed since if you go early enough the one T won’t even have the galil yet.

AWP secret is very strong, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think it’s “unbalanced” per se. The nether tp is relatively new, and as CTs get used to it, the secret will feel even less prevalent than it already is.

 

[Bowl of Water]

I also agree with milo , But having the AWP secret removed could have a similar effect to what happened with America where if the secrets are nerfed so bad that the map doesn't play the same people would just stop playing the map and inevitably would be boring to play.

As for the trapdoor secret, yes its a pain to guard against but to me its similar to the vent in cells on vipinthemix, if CTs are ready for it they can easily stop whoever gets in there (even if the tp gets moved to a different area) plus the fact that there are usually a couple Ts who do not know the secret, fall in thinking they will get tp'd, but end up dying because only 1 person can get in.

 

[kaZZ]

AWP One-Way
The AWP One-Way has been a historical feature of mc_beta and is fairly well known. I personally have never been a fan of one ways as they encourage camping, are very powerful, and heavily shut down potential defense/counter-attacks from CTs. Though it should obviously be pointed out that CTs need to be careful when bringing prisoners anywhere near the entrance to said secret, I strongly believe the time and risk taken is significantly smaller than the reward granted. Having a one-way with an AWP in an elevated area grants the prisoner an amazing vantage point to most areas of the map. Additionally, it is near impossible to reach this position safely once a prisoner is on the one-way.

Proposed Nerf: I suggest we replace the AWP that is currently in the one-way with a scout (ssg08). This weapon is less powerful than an AWP, however, still allows the prisoner to deal a considerable amount of damage to the round / CTs. Since the scout is not generally considered the "best" weapon (such as AWP / Rifle), it also encourages the rebel to be more daring and risky, forcing them to consider leaving the one-way in pursuit of another weapon. When considering the cost and risk that it takes to reach this secret, I strongly believe a one-way AWP is too strong.

one way awp isnt that OP cause CTs are easily able to access it by just entering in from the top of the statue and honestly if CTs aren't expected that Ts will do the secret when playing climb they are just awful CTs

replacing with a scout is just a dumb idea as a scout has no wallbang potential, and changing it would ruin its name "awp secret" that it has developed over the years it has been in the map pool

Trapdoor Vent to Nether
A recent addition to this map, the wooden trapdoor that is right outside of cells has only 200 HP (requiring only 6 left click knifes) and grants a one-time teleport into the nether. This teleport isn't necessarily overpowered, by itself, however, it can make camping extremely easy if a CT has not yet entered the nether. One of the biggest issues I see with this secret is the teleport leads to a room with normally only one way in. This can make it extremely difficult for CTs to fairly engage; utility on this map is additionally minimal, so smoking, flashing, or other tactics are few and far between. The fact that it is very much in the way of a common pathway can make it trivial for prisoners to break, though this secret is more preventable as a warden / CT.

Proposed Nerf: I think moving the teleport from into the nether to be in pool or nearby (maybe the 200 hp secret) would improve the gameplay for both teams. There are more paths from the proposed area, and camping would effectively be non-existent. Moving it to the pool or in 200 hp secret still gives a solid teleport for the prisoner while also being fair for the CT. I do admit that this would likely benefit the CTs more than Ts, and am open to alternative teleport locations.

Please let me know what you guys think!

you can say this about any map with a one way TP that can be camped... and moving the TP towards the mini pool would cause cause camping secret allegations and cause more harm than good...

 

[Ron]

-1. I think the AWP secret can be easily countered as mentioned by just entering through the eyes of the statue. Not too familiar with the trapdoor secret so I won't comment on that but I believe the awp secret shouldn't be touched as its really only accessible if the warden plays climb or you somehow manage to run away and get there, also with the recent nerf of the awp to 5 shots its easy enough for a CT to get by the awper and get into the secret